how far is too far?

AirborneOwner · GURU

RE: how far is too far?

cheerwatcher · GURU

AirborneOwner wrote:

What gym are you from CheerWatcher?

Now, if I told you--I wouldn't be anonymus now would it? hehe. I like keeping it a secret, just so my views and opinons remain just that-MY views not to be associated with our program. However i will give a hint, Our teams are RARELY spoke about on these boards!

hmmmm now i got you thinking!

AirborneOwner · GURU

Well i surely understand. Goodluck to you in San Mateo!

cheerwatcher · GURU

hhahaha thanks! You too! I will surely be rooting your teams on!

AirborneOwner · GURU

Thank you!!!! We really appreciate it! We have added alot of new things to our routines and we are really trying to push the envelope, Thanks for the support!

my2girls · Veteran Member

cheermom wrote:

my2girls wrote:

I guess my original dilemma was when to know that it's time to start making larger sacrifices such as longer traveling to get to a particular organization vs. waiting or settling for something that's closer, easier and perfectly good.... but just not awesome.

To me, it sounds like you really need to decided what the difference is between a "perfectly good" gym and an "awesome" gym.

What are your issues with your current gym? Is it unsafe? Are the coaches mean?

What is it that you are looking for that you don't think you are getting at the gym you are at - what is making you question?

I don't think that the gym is unsafe, it is certainly not mean, either. I do believe that they are doing very well for what they have. I think that they are limited as to the number of coaches on the staff and equipment at the facility to acheive much in results for progressing in tumbling and stunting. We would need private lessons for that. It's a small gym and a fairly new gym. Therefore, I think they are still trying to work out some "kinks." And hey, at least they are trying to improve each year as they come across "issues." That being said, I wonder if I could get more bang-for-my-buck at a more established facility, where they strived to help each individual cheerleader improve their skills within the facility. Does that even exist out there? Or is that a parental fantasy? My daughter is on 2 teams because she sorta falls in between what our gym has to offer team wise for her age/ability. So, she's on team A for this benefit, and team B for that benefit. I guess what makes me question is that it's a lot of money and commitment and I just wonder if there is a big enough difference from one organization to another to justify leaving an organization for something else that may or may not be better. Thanks for the questions and comments. It's great info to make me think.....

CheerMama · Senior Member

my2girls wrote:

cheermom wrote:

my2girls wrote:

I guess my original dilemma was when to know that it's time to start making larger sacrifices such as longer traveling to get to a particular organization vs. waiting or settling for something that's closer, easier and perfectly good.... but just not awesome.

To me, it sounds like you really need to decided what the difference is between a "perfectly good" gym and an "awesome" gym.

What are your issues with your current gym? Is it unsafe? Are the coaches mean?

What is it that you are looking for that you don't think you are getting at the gym you are at - what is making you question?

I don't think that the gym is unsafe, it is certainly not mean, either. I do believe that they are doing very well for what they have. I think that they are limited as to the number of coaches on the staff and equipment at the facility to acheive much in results for progressing in tumbling and stunting. We would need private lessons for that. It's a small gym and a fairly new gym. Therefore, I think they are still trying to work out some "kinks." And hey, at least they are trying to improve each year as they come across "issues." That being said, I wonder if I could get more bang-for-my-buck at a more established facility, where they strived to help each individual cheerleader improve their skills within the facility. Does that even exist out there? Or is that a parental fantasy? My daughter is on 2 teams because she sorta falls in between what our gym has to offer team wise for her age/ability. So, she's on team A for this benefit, and team B for that benefit. I guess what makes me question is that it's a lot of money and commitment and I just wonder if there is a big enough difference from one organization to another to justify leaving an organization for something else that may or may not be better. Thanks for the questions and comments. It's great info to make me think.....

I guess it really depends on what your childs desire is. My daughter loves cheer but I know to get her where she needs to be as far as tumbling she is not going to get that quality instruction at our gym. We have never taken a tumbling class at our gym, We take at a gymnastics facility. The prices for privates at our gym are crazy so there is no way, plus they are not gymnastic coaches

my2girls · Veteran Member

I guess it really depends on what your childs desire is. My daughter loves cheer but I know to get her where she needs to be as far as tumbling she is not going to get that quality instruction at our gym. We have never taken a tumbling class at our gym, We take at a gymnastics facility. The prices for privates at our gym are crazy so there is no way, plus they are not gymnastic coaches

But, with an 8yr old her "desire" is not always obtainable/realistic. The sky is the limit, right? I feel like I have to make that final decision for her. No different than choosing the right school, what she can/can't watch on TV.....you know what I mean. I don't think that it would be so much my decision if she was older, but since we're fairly new to the all star world and have only been exposed to this on gym, I'm not sure what's really out there, and what my expectations should really be.

My impression was that the more well established organizations included tumbling lessons in their program. Any feedback on if that is/is not the case? And what about parents out there whose kids are more advanced (tumbling and stunting skills).... did they get those awesome skills slowly but surely, or did it come sooner, and more technically sound from a great cheer program?

Cheer411 · Senior Member

my2girls wrote:

cheermom wrote:

my2girls wrote:

    I guess my original dilemma was when to know that it's time to start making larger sacrifices such as longer traveling to get to a particular organization vs. waiting or settling for something that's closer, easier and perfectly good.... but just not awesome.

To me, it sounds like you really need to decided what the difference is between a "perfectly good" gym and an "awesome" gym.

What are your issues with your current gym? Is it unsafe? Are the coaches mean?

What is it that you are looking for that you don't think you are getting at the gym you are at - what is making you question?

I don't think that the gym is unsafe, it is certainly not mean, either. I do believe that they are doing very well for what they have. I think that they are limited as to the number of coaches on the staff and equipment at the facility to acheive much in results for progressing in tumbling and stunting. We would need private lessons for that. It's a small gym and a fairly new gym. Therefore, I think they are still trying to work out some "kinks." And hey, at least they are trying to improve each year as they come across "issues." That being said, I wonder if I could get more bang-for-my-buck at a more established facility, where they strived to help each individual cheerleader improve their skills within the facility. Does that even exist out there? Or is that a parental fantasy? My daughter is on 2 teams because she sorta falls in between what our gym has to offer team wise for her age/ability. So, she's on team A for this benefit, and team B for that benefit. I guess what makes me question is that it's a lot of money and commitment and I just wonder if there is a big enough difference from one organization to another to justify leaving an organization for something else that may or may not be better. Thanks for the questions and comments. It's great info to make me think.....

Lucky you!

That's so cool that a gym would allow your daughter to participate on 2 teams. Gosh, I really wish my daughter would have been allowed the same opportunity. I'm sure my daughter would have loved to be able to be a member of an older team because she always wanted to be a flyer. Instead, she stayed down on the younger team because she was an incredible base.   So, she missed out on an opportunity to become a flyer. (Honestly, I think she would have been an incredible flyer because of her flexibility.)

Cost is certainly a factor when you get to double team. I am curious what your gym charges? I am assuming double the gym cost for practice times, competition fees, and camp fees?  Am I missing anything else? I could definitely see the benefit of double teaming. and the extra money wouldn't be an issue in my pocketbook (yikes).

As far as individual instruction...PRIVATES and More PRIVATES. This is probably your best bet if you want personal instruction for your daughter. Unfortunately, Cheer is a team sport and I'm sure your coaches have their hands full with making sure the entire team is ready to go for each competition.

Hey, does your gym offer Individuals to compete? Maybe that's something you should think about? That way, your daughter would be coached one-on-one.

It sounds to me that your gym is doing what they can to make sure they are nice to all the cheerleaders and have a safe environment in which to practice. That is fantastic!

My advice is to really research everything out before you move your daughter. Just because a gym may have more equipment or added space, doesn't mean more personal attention for your daughter. Some times, your daughter will get ignored because the gym is so much bigger and there are so many more cheerleaders on the floor with her.

Be extra careful if you decide to switch. The grass isn't always greener!

P.S. You know, when I go watch a competition, I always look at the teams as they get ready to compete. I don't look at their faces, I look at all their knees. If several of the girls (sorry guys...but y'all wear pants) on the team have knee braces that is an indicator, to me, that maybe a gym isn't safe "enough"? I worry about it!

my2girls · Veteran Member

My advice is to really research everything out before you move your daughter. Just because a gym may have more equipment or added space, doesn't mean more personal attention for your daughter. Some times, your daughter will get ignored because the gym is so much bigger and there are so many more cheerleaders on the floor with her.

Be extra careful if you decide to switch. The grass isn't always greener!

P.S. You know, when I go watch a competition, I always look at the teams as they get ready to compete. I don't look at their faces, I look at all their knees. If several of the girls (sorry guys...but y'all wear pants) on the team have knee braces that is an indicator, to me, that maybe a gym isn't safe "enough"? I worry about it!

Don't get me wrong..... it's not that I'm complaining about our gym.. I agree that I think they have the best intentions, and that they are trying to do the best with what they have. But, that doesn't always mean that it is the best gym for each cheerleader. And, for someone with a fairly new and young cheerleader, how do you really know if the grass is greener somewhere else, or not? I'm sure both could be the case. But if the grass is greener 60 miles away......that's a big family decision.

I think that Nelson's post as well as your tip on checking out the injured during comps is a very good idea when considering exactly what shade of green the grass is! I also thought that a forum like this would be a great opportunity for seeing what other's experiences/expectations have been. Thanks!

CheerMama · Senior Member

my2girls wrote:

I guess it really depends on what your childs desire is. My daughter loves cheer but I know to get her where she needs to be as far as tumbling she is not going to get that quality instruction at our gym. We have never taken a tumbling class at our gym, We take at a gymnastics facility. The prices for privates at our gym are crazy so there is no way, plus they are not gymnastic coaches

But, with an 8yr old her "desire" is not always obtainable/realistic. The sky is the limit, right? I feel like I have to make that final decision for her. No different than choosing the right school, what she can/can't watch on TV.....you know what I mean. I don't think that it would be so much my decision if she was older, but since we're fairly new to the all star world and have only been exposed to this on gym, I'm not sure what's really out there, and what my expectations should really be.

My impression was that the more well established organizations included tumbling lessons in their program. Any feedback on if that is/is not the case? And what about parents out there whose kids are more advanced (tumbling and stunting skills).... did they get those awesome skills slowly but surely, or did it come sooner, and more technically sound from a great cheer program?

My daughter started cheering when she was 7 she started working layouts at 8 and got her full at 9 now she is 10 and she is working doubles, so sometimes at the young of an age they can obtain their goals. They just have to be in the right enviornment and have the right coach. It all has to do with self esteem. Her coach nailed it right on the head to when she was learning her layout He asked her Do you believe in GOD? She said yes, he said no do you really believe?, She said yes, He said "With all your heart? She said absolutely, He then told her with as much faith as you have in GOD and as much as you believe in him is as much you should believe in yourself and how much faith I have in you that you can do it. She has never forgotten what he said to her. It is a good motivater

CheeRacerMom · Veteran Member

Safety has always been my primary concern when choosing a program but you have to remember that whenever an athlete is pushing themselves to the next level (especially at when they are at the top of their sport) there is the risk for injury. So you may see more knee braces, etc. on the level 5 athletes than on the lower levels. This is not always an indication of a unsafe program but you have to remember that many of these athletes have been in the sport a long time and are pushing the envelope.

Privates are always beneficial to a tumbler. My child has taken private lessons at a gymnastics gym and at her cheer gym. This allows them to get the special instruction they need that they can't get in a group lesson. When choosing a gym, check the credentials of the coaches to see how long they have been coaching/involved in cheerleading and what continued training they recieve.

I suggest going to watch a practice at gyms you are considering as you can see how the coaches interact with the athletes and what safety precautions they take. You can also see what kind of equipment they have available. These things will give you a clue as to the type of program they run.

my2girls · Veteran Member

My daughter started cheering when she was 7 she started working layouts at 8 and got her full at 9 now she is 10 and she is working doubles, so sometimes at the young of an age they can obtain their goals. They just have to be in the right enviornment and have the right coach. It all has to do with self esteem. Her coach nailed it right on the head to when she was learning her layout He asked her Do you believe in GOD? She said yes, he said no do you really believe?, She said yes, He said "With all your heart? She said absolutely, He then told her with as much faith as you have in GOD and as much as you believe in him is as much you should believe in yourself and how much faith I have in you that you can do it. She has never forgotten what he said to her. It is a good motivater

Sounds like you have an awesome coach

.... that's kinda what I'm talking about... once you find that perfect fit, you just know it, right? You would drive as far as you needed to, or not think about checking out somewhere else because you've got that feeling that you're on the same page as your organization, and that's not always easy to find.

AbbyByTheBay · Senior Member

Two things come to mind reading these posts that I felt I had to mention... first of all, what would have happened had someone answered "no" to the do you believe in God question? I'm hoping the coach would have quickly found something else to ask that would have ended in the same result. I certainly wouldn't want coaches or owners asking that question, but that's just me. Secondly, I don't think it's correct to assume knee braces on girls at competitions equals an unsafe gym. I think it would be a mistake to make that assumption if it means you would rule out going to that gym based on that.

CheerMama · Senior Member

my2girls wrote:

My daughter started cheering when she was 7 she started working layouts at 8 and got her full at 9 now she is 10 and she is working doubles, so sometimes at the young of an age they can obtain their goals. They just have to be in the right enviornment and have the right coach. It all has to do with self esteem. Her coach nailed it right on the head to when she was learning her layout He asked her Do you believe in GOD? She said yes, he said no do you really believe?, She said yes, He said "With all your heart? She said absolutely, He then told her with as much faith as you have in GOD and as much as you believe in him is as much you should believe in yourself and how much faith I have in you that you can do it. She has never forgotten what he said to her. It is a good motivater

Sounds like you have an awesome coach.... that's kinda what I'm talking about... once you find that perfect fit, you just know it, right? You would drive as far as you needed to, or not think about checking out somewhere else because you've got that feeling that you're on the same page as your organization, and that's not always easy to find.

Exactly, We live in the sme town that we cheer in but as far as for tumbling instruction we commute over an hour each way once during the week and once on Saturdays and we coudn't be happier, at first my husband thought I was nuts, but after he say the quality of the instruction we were getting at our gymnastics gym he wouldn't thing twice about having her take anywhere else.

OC Mom · GURU

I agree with the injury thing too. And my daughter is one who wears a brace. We have almost 400 kids and MAYBE 5 wear a brace. All for different reasons but only 2 because of cheer. The coaches need to make sure these kids exercise, stretch, warm-up, etc. BUT it's also the parents responsibility.

My daughters injury was due to a side base, who was quite new, moving AWAY as she came down and thus, her knee was injured. It sometimes gives out for no reason at all, so she wears a brace now, full time. (the last time it gave out, she was walking up stairs at school) So even though it's a good idea to look at injury rate, you have to take the gym as a whole. You will see more braces on upper level teams of course, but you may be seeing ALL of their injuries on one team, so be careful of that. My suggestion would be to ask them. It doesn't hurt asking a kid, "hey, how did you hurt your leg?"

You are so right about having to make the decision for her. But you know if she's into this or not. The grass isn't always greener, true. But a gym that has a name for itself and peopLE keep coming back is a good indicator. We just gained 2 more kids from a rival gym THIS WEEK, so I would really really ask the parents at that gym what they think. There has to be a reason why people seem to migrate to one particular gym.

I wish you the very very best of everything. You're all great great parents and our kids are so lucky to have you all involved in this wonderful sport!!!!

Worlds Watcher · GURU

CheerMama wrote:

Exactly, We live in the sme town that we cheer in but as far as for tumbling instruction we commute over an hour each way once during the week and once on Saturdays and we coudn't be happier, at first my husband thought I was nuts, but after he say the quality of the instruction we were getting at our gymnastics gym he wouldn't thing twice about having her take anywhere else.

When will cheerleading gyms get it that they have to have better tumbling coaches? And not those "cheer tumbling" coaches that teach you all the wrong techniques and make you "chuck" the skill just so they can add it to the routine. I just think it is wrong to have to pay so much money and then have to go outside your gym to get good tumbling instructions.

Danny · Senior Member

Finding good tumbling coaches to work even part time at your gym is the most frustrating thing for gym owners. Just know that we try and are willing to pay whatever it takes. As someone i the AllStar business for 21 years......trust me, they're just few and far between.

CheerMama · Senior Member

AbbyByTheBay wrote:

Two things come to mind reading these posts that I felt I had to mention... first of all, what would have happened had someone answered "no" to the do you believe in God question? I'm hoping the coach would have quickly found something else to ask that would have ended in the same result. I certainly wouldn't want coaches or owners asking that question, but that's just me. Secondly, I don't think it's correct to assume knee braces on girls at competitions equals an unsafe gym. I think it would be a mistake to make that assumption if it means you would rule out going to that gym based on that.

Thats another thing I failed to mention is that her gymnastics instructor treats her like if she were one of his own kids and knows plenty about her. What kind of music she likes, who her friends are and that she made her first communion 2 years ago. He makes it fun for her and knows when to push her and when she needs to just chit chat and work other skills so that she doesn't get frustrated.

So my daughter completely trusts him. There is that personal relationship. Not just another cheerleader there for tumbling and once the hour is up they coach says good bye and thats it

Worlds Watcher · GURU

Aren't there some gyms that have broadened their class/service offerings to draw in non-competitive cheer clientle and this has helped them hire full time coaches, rather than part time coaches. Example, add Power Tumbling or Tumbling/Trampoline classes, or recreational tumbling. Keep the coach busy full time and your competitive cheerleaders can also join the classes if they want to improve on those higher level skills.