Power Competition!!!

Date: Tue Nov 14 10:46 AM, 2006

RE: Power Competition!!!

Date: Tue Nov 14 10:52 AM, 2006

It matters because Youth competitions were not designed for the purpose that some Youth teams have taken it too. Yes John and some others helped changes the rules, but that doesn't mean its for the better. I am coach and don't feel threatened by Youth teams because its clear distinction between school, youth and all star. It's not about skills, but about presentation of the kids, parents and other aspects of the program. I am happy these youth teams are exceling, but where are the programs for kids who just want to cheer and have fun at an early age. Obviously pop warner/youth programs are not there for that reason anymore, but more competitve focused. One more thing, people who drive 2 hours each way to be on an all star team do have a bit more to struggle with than someone who is in their own community, and still with the SAME expectations. It's not the same, so it's harder to form the all-star teams. It's not always so black and white or the bottom line. You have to look at the process.

Date: Tue Nov 14 10:59 AM, 2006

When youth leagues make it mandatory to compete you don't prpeare saying were only "youth". It upsets me when people want to make youth cheer equal across the board. They don't make that championship fotball team change how they do things so all teams are more equal. If kids want more give them more, never hold them back. I know some youth teams are not what people want in some areas so they have to go to all-star teams. This is why level of youth have been created to support both level one and level 4 youth teams. If they don't offer a youth catagory we don't have a choice of where to go.

We are fortunate enough to have a great youth team and HS team in our area. We also like the fact that we can support our community sports teams and compete at a level that is competitive. I don't understand why people want to put that down, or take that away from us. I guess I'm missing the point as to why all-star teams would be upset if we competed in an all-star catagory?

Date: Tue Nov 14 11:27 AM, 2006

I don't think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that all-stars has any problem with youth competing against them. I think it would be awesome if they're able to, especially considering, as you said, where you have to practice (not in a nice gym with spring floors). And you're right, all stars have practiced longer, no time out for cheering for games, etc... That is not the argument at all. If youth teams aren't allowed to compete with all stars, I don't get that at all. Why not let them???

Here is the problem, as the other post mentioned. Gym owners are helping to shape youth into all-stars, leaving nowhere for the real youth pop-warner teams to go. They are raising the levels allowed, which in turn means renting their gym and taking tumbling classes from their organizations. There are just too many areas that have youth teams who shouldn't have to try to compete at such high levels. They simply don't have the means, and should not be left out.

So better to allow any youth teams who have the skills and/or the money to spend on additional training to compete with all-stars, then to go the other direction and try to turn youth teams into all-star caliber, leaving too many out in the cold.

Date: Tue Nov 14 11:32 AM, 2006

The solution is simple, you keep the levels down for youth. Anyone who can compete at higher levels should be allowed to compete with all-stars. Covers both. Keeps youth manageable for those who simply want to cheer and not so competitively, and allows for those who want to excel.

Date: Tue Nov 14 11:53 AM, 2006

Ok, now school and youth teams compete in all star, but why can't all star teams compete against school/youth teams. If Cheer Athletics competed against a youth team, people say it would be unfair. I hate that people can come to all star but its not the other way around.

Date: Tue Nov 14 11:53 AM, 2006

Sorry, what I meant to say was, keep the levels down for youth competitions. By that I mean pop warner, and anything like it. Higher level teams, compete at all-star competitions. Seems simple enough, no?

Date: Tue Nov 14 12:00 PM, 2006

I agree, many solutions to a new world of youth cheer needed. I will have to say after watching so many youth teams, i applaud All-star gyms for helping with teaching,camps etc. I watch so many youth teams try to pull stunts they have no training for. LAst weekend i watched a Midget team (11-14old) try to pull a full twist basket. Needless to say it traveled 10 feet to the right! THis could have been another "good morning america" scene the cheer industry does not need.

In our case with working with Power, JAMZ and CHeergyms we do this not to take on "all-star" qualities but learn proper technique and skills. The youth industry needs to be revamped and kudos to whoever can do it! You have uneducated coaches telling the girls to do elements they themselves have no idea how to coach.

I have worked with all three of these organiztions and they are headed in the right direction in standardizing youth cheer. POWER has taken it to the next level and making sure our youth competition is desinged to not only accomodate youth cheer for those teams that "just want to cheer" and for those that are highly competitive. Everyone wants to succeded, but when the carrot is there to have "nationals" in vegas and LA, you will get the best of the best and it is for those teams that want more than to just cheer! I see everyones point but when we are required by our leages to compete or we are fined or kicked out of the league for not competing you need to step up to the plate and give it all you got!

Date: Tue Nov 14 1:21 PM, 2006

This is nice that EDH has such a qualified coach to teach her youngsters such advanced skills and such. But being a parent of a 7 year all star, I would be PISSED if my daughter was doing such things outside of a spring floor with a youth coach! EDH maybe has a better qualified coach, but we ALL know that 99% of those youth/Pop Warner coaches have extremely little or no experience in the proper techniques of advanced tumbling or stunting. Some all-star gyms don't even have highly qualified people, but that shows in the long run.

What the difference here is, qualifications, techniques and facility. My daughters high school's competition team even practices at an all star gym. They practice sidline stuff at the school. But the upper level stuff is done on a spring floor. Her all star team has higher qualified coaches and it's apparent. (her comp team has the same coaches, thank goodness) but the sideline teams should only compete at their own lower level. We are all asking for trouble otherwise. Would you ask an upper level gymnast to tumble on a gym floor? That's what these kids do these days. All that pounding is horrible for the back. What's the difference between the solid ground and the sidewalk out front? NOTHING.

I commend the EDH coach for trying her best to coach her kids to be better with the best techniques, but the best is only so good when someone hits the solid ground doing advanced stuff. Yep, all star kids get hurt too, but they have a better chance. I would bet my life that there isn't an all star gym that would even attend a competition that doesn't have a spring floor. Do they even exist any more?

Now don't get me wrong. I am not saying that the Pop Warner/Youth teams should be out of All Star competitions, but they should be held up to the standards of the All Star world. I would actually put that on the kids parents. I know that my kid would be grounded for LIFE if I caught her doing what she does on solid ground. It kills me to even think about it....

Date: Tue Nov 14 1:51 PM, 2006

Good wrote:

This is nice that EDH has such a qualified coach to teach her youngsters such advanced skills and such. But being a parent of a 7 year all star, I would be PISSED if my daughter was doing such things outside of a spring floor with a youth coach! EDH maybe has a better qualified coach, but we ALL know that 99% of those youth/Pop Warner coaches have extremely little or no experience in the proper techniques of advanced tumbling or stunting. Some all-star gyms don't even have highly qualified people, but that shows in the long run.

What the difference here is, qualifications, techniques and facility. My daughters high school's competition team even practices at an all star gym. They practice sidline stuff at the school. But the upper level stuff is done on a spring floor. Her all star team has higher qualified coaches and it's apparent. (her comp team has the same coaches, thank goodness) but the sideline teams should only compete at their own lower level. We are all asking for trouble otherwise. Would you ask an upper level gymnast to tumble on a gym floor? That's what these kids do these days. All that pounding is horrible for the back. What's the difference between the solid ground and the sidewalk out front? NOTHING.

I commend the EDH coach for trying her best to coach her kids to be better with the best techniques, but the best is only so good when someone hits the solid ground doing advanced stuff. Yep, all star kids get hurt too, but they have a better chance. I would bet my life that there isn't an all star gym that would even attend a competition that doesn't have a spring floor. Do they even exist any more?

Now don't get me wrong. I am not saying that the Pop Warner/Youth teams should be out of All Star competitions, but they should be held up to the standards of the All Star world. I would actually put that on the kids parents. I know that my kid would be grounded for LIFE if I caught her doing what she does on solid ground. It kills me to even think about it....

I read a lot of these things.....that was the post of the week.

Date: Tue Nov 14 1:52 PM, 2006

Thanks for your support! I don't think any competition should be held on a non-spring floor! HS and college teams do not compete on spring floor and that is standard.! I hate non-spring floors becuase it is so hard on the body! I can't understand why college, youth and hs hold competitions on nonspring floors. But, on the flip side when my daughter goes to college to try out they expect you to do all these elements on hardwood.reg cheer mats and/or grass! So i guess it boils down to what you want to do with your cheer career. We have girls that tried out for our state college team that competes nationally and all-star girls really had a hard time at try-outs vs the hs girls since they were used to tumbling on everything....I think cheer grew up way to fast without some heavy players sitting down and making an industry standard.

Date: Tue Nov 14 2:45 PM, 2006

You're so welcome and please keep up your hard work. Even though we are from different worlds, we both love cheer and would do anything to keep it going! At least we are basically headed in the right direction to making it a recognized school sport!!! (that's a WHOLE other topic, now isn't it? hahaha)

Date: Tue Nov 14 2:55 PM, 2006

You got a big smile out of me on that one, yes one "whole" other topic! Good luck to everyone this season and we will see you at CHeergyms comp in February!!

Date: Tue Nov 14 3:27 PM, 2006

If youth/pop warner is going to go in the direction of requiring spring floors to compete on, and to practice on as well, then it truly is going in the direction of all stars, and needs to be evaluated. This will cost money of course, and you hate to see members dropping out because they can no longer afford to rent a gym, and whatever else this entails. There has to be a place for youth/pop warner teams that have very basic skills (I"m talking back handsprings at most) that really want to just get out there and cheer & dance, competing with other teams that want to do the same. Maybe the answer is for them all to compete at level 1 (maybe 2)? and anything higher must meet a set of requirements (practicing/competing on spring floors, qualified coaches, etc...).

I dunno, but changes have to be made before we see some serious injuries. Owners want to help shape the sport and make it safer, but are they willing to offer their gyms for free to non profit organizations such as pop warner? What are they willing to do besides hold competitions for youth that include level 4 and 5 skills, and offer tumbling classes and camps that I'm pretty sure they are making a profit from. Am I wrong?

Date: Tue Nov 14 5:13 PM, 2006

no matter how i say this it will come out hard. WHy not make everyone an all-star team? You can't limit this to youth. HS and college are perfoming on non-spring floors every weekend in competition doing what level 4,5 and 6 are doing. The industry has flowered in a billion different directions with no structure, at least limited structure. The clear difference in youth, hs and college vs. all star is the supporting of the sports teams at games and then they add competition to the mix they want the best of both worlds! They like to cheer at games and compete! all-star just want to compete! We don't care what floor we compete on, we can do our skills on both and cherish the comps that have spring floor. I don't see any comments against college level teams doing what your all-star level 4,5,6 do on regular floors. "My opinion" youth teams are a new craze to compete with becuase your not paying big bucks for an all-star team. Yes the coaching is not at the same level as most all-star teams but some are doing righthave some competition. I'm not saying this is right for everyone but they are all the same ages so it goes back to coaching and what kids step up to the plate.... Folsom did it last year at athletic perfection and won in level 4! All-star will always have the advantage over youth becuase we don't start our routines until November. I don't mean to offend anyone just hoping to get some acceptance in this big cheer World!!!

Date: Tue Nov 14 11:01 PM, 2006

lynn wrote:

no matter how i say this it will come out hard. WHy not make everyone an all-star team? You can't limit this to youth. HS and college are perfoming on non-spring floors every weekend in competition doing what level 4,5 and 6 are doing. The industry has flowered in a billion different directions with no structure, at least limited structure. The clear difference in youth, hs and college vs. all star is the supporting of the sports teams at games and then they add competition to the mix they want the best of both worlds! They like to cheer at games and compete! all-star just want to compete! We don't care what floor we compete on, we can do our skills on both and cherish the comps that have spring floor. I don't see any comments against college level teams doing what your all-star level 4,5,6 do on regular floors. "My opinion" youth teams are a new craze to compete with becuase your not paying big bucks for an all-star team. Yes the coaching is not at the same level as most all-star teams but some are doing righthave some competition. I'm not saying this is right for everyone but they are all the same ages so it goes back to coaching and what kids step up to the plate.... Folsom did it last year at athletic perfection and won in level 4! All-star will always have the advantage over youth becuase we don't start our routines until November. I don't mean to offend anyone just hoping to get some acceptance in this big cheer World!!!

Give college teams 5 more years and you probably see VERY little colleges doing the same stunts they do now. Thanks to the media, insurance companies, and other negative press most colleges are doing away with stunts and certain tumbling skills. Look at the PAC 10, there less than 4 schools that even are good cheer teams and those are minimal. Insurance companies and media are kicking cheerleading teams butts, so thats why in all star you don't have to worry about school administration. As far as youth teams, if they want to do their thing, then let them. I feel all stars should be SEPERATE like YOUTH, MIDDLE SCHOOL, HIGH SCHOOL, and COLLEGE. All these other programs reap the benefits that all star teams have had to FIGHT for. Their shoudl be a rule that you have to be a USASF member gym in order to compete all-star. Make up another category for these h.s. and youth teams who go all star. make the rules say that you NEED a GYM in order to compete in these divisions.

Date: Wed Nov 15 11:21 PM, 2006

When you have to learn 3 half time routines, a half time cheer, a hello cheer, 25+ sidelines cheers and put together a competition routine in 3 months and 2 weeks you will learn to understand why 3 or 4 nights of practice compared to your 2 days a week over 12 months still gives you the advantage....wake up!

Date: Wed Nov 15 11:35 PM, 2006

Maybe if your daughter could stick her tumbling skills on mats without springs & grass you would avoid the possibility of bobbles and falls on a spring floor? Just a thought...although if my daughter needed the support of a spring floor for a BHS tuck I probably would have taken it down a notch...not worth the risk of the deductions and/or injuries.

Date: Wed Nov 15 11:55 PM, 2006

Anonymous wrote:

cheer mom wrote:

I have to say I was really unimpressed with this whole competition. First of all it was too bad that so many divisions did not have competition but I felt it went way too fast, the judging was a little random to me and nobody wowed me. The level 5 teams were good, but still have work to do to clean up their routines. I was more wowed by the youth football teams that competed before the allstars. A lot of those teams could have competed in the allstar section and won. Also, after all the postings about Cheer Divas new routines I have to say the level 3 team put me to sleep and were beat by a large margin by Motions and the level 4 team was not much better. The kids looked like they didn't want to be there and were just going through the motions so they could get off the stage. I know both teams are capable of more and I hope they come out next time and put some showmanship into their routines and wow me again like they have in the past.

The first thing I noticed upon walking in was that you had no idea who was putting on the competition. There was a huge black drape with a little table with trophies on it in the back of the stage. No sign saying what comp you were at or any visual backdrop to the stage. The lighting was not good for taking pictures at all. Then it was done really, really fast. There was a minute or less between teams and I have no idea how the judges could possibly score teams that fast which may answer why some of the scores and placements seemed off where others didn't. It ran ahead of schedule which was good, but I almost felt like we were being ran out of there so the ones that had been there all day (judges and workers) could go home. I expected a lot more from POWER and was disappointed.

Hopefully they will make some changes next year and get more gyms to come. I love their program, but their competiton left a lot to be desired.

Cheer mom, you are an cheer idiot. There is no way, not matter how good, that any of those janky pop warner teams could have beat a team from motions, pyramids, airborne.

Hmmm..let's look at the results. Pyramids youth level 2 (11 and under I believe) team had a total score of 198. Airborne had a total score of 178. The Mighty mites from El Dorado, Folsom, Franklin, Elk Grove, San Joaquin, Galt, Ponderosa, Sheldon and Rosemont beat that with the 1st place winner scoring 294 and Rosemont scoring 205.5..these are just the girls 8 and under compared to your 11 and under teams...same scoring grid look it up at Powercheerallstars.com. I do not think I need to go on to all the Jr. PeeWee and PeeWee scores. And if you are thinking that the youth teams have a different grid they are scored by, let's again go to the power web site under forms to see that the technical grid is the same, which 6 of our 10 janky teams still KYA!!!

Date: Thu Nov 16 12:26 AM, 2006

Youth teams practice 3-4 days a week, compared to all star teams who meet 2 times a week, sometimes only for 2 hours each. Plus level 2 is limited on the skills they can do.