political maybe

Date: Wed Nov 1 1:54 AM, 2006

RE: political maybe

Date: Wed Nov 1 6:35 AM, 2006

I think whenever someones team doesn't place the way they want (1st) they need to make an excuse for it ! GET OVER IT!!!!!

Date: Wed Nov 1 7:13 AM, 2006

my opinion wrote:

I think whenever someones team doesn't place the way they want (1st) they need to make an excuse for it ! GET OVER IT!!!!!

THANK YOU!!!
So true.

Date: Wed Nov 1 7:28 AM, 2006

There are times when scores are added wrong or when there has been a HUGE mistake. This is slim, but it still happens.

Date: Wed Nov 1 8:40 AM, 2006

If no one was talking about who works for whom or this person choreographed their gyms routine and they work for....., then sure..... no politics, BUT they are talking about it. I am also sure that in the meetings the director does not tell judes how to or who to judge a certian way. However, this is when it becomes stickey. It is that judges personal opinion as to how they judge a team. Yes, the follow the score sheets they have too, but I have seen teams wronged. I have seen teams score lower for bobbles in their stunts and have seen others win first with a stunt going down. The team who took first knows people and has a rep! That team is more important then the no name little team. Can you say "good O'l Boys club"? To say get over it, get real. Stuff like this happens and no one will admit it, why should they. I am not saying everyone judges like that, but maybe the CA companies need to fly in outside judges from other states. Judges that have no clue as to who that gym is. Then NO ONE can claim the comp was not fair. I do mean ALL the judges need to be out of state.

Date: Wed Nov 1 9:22 AM, 2006

Does it hurt?? wrote:

If no one was talking about who works for whom or this person choreographed their gyms routine and they work for....., then sure..... no politics, BUT they are talking about it. I am also sure that in the meetings the director does not tell judes how to or who to judge a certian way. However, this is when it becomes stickey. It is that judges personal opinion as to how they judge a team. Yes, the follow the score sheets they have too, but I have seen teams wronged. I have seen teams score lower for bobbles in their stunts and have seen others win first with a stunt going down. The team who took first knows people and has a rep! That team is more important then the no name little team. Can you say "good O'l Boys club"? To say get over it, get real. Stuff like this happens and no one will admit it, why should they. I am not saying everyone judges like that, but maybe the CA companies need to fly in outside judges from other states. Judges that have no clue as to who that gym is. Then NO ONE can claim the comp was not fair. I do mean ALL the judges need to be out of state.

Amen to that now can someone pass this information on to GSSA .

Date: Wed Nov 1 9:26 AM, 2006

Cuz GSSA is the only competition that has this. (dripping with sarcasm)

Date: Wed Nov 1 9:38 AM, 2006

Oh yes wrote:

Cuz GSSA is the only competition that has this. (dripping with sarcasm)

No, they're not, they're just the most blatant about it.

Date: Wed Nov 1 9:50 AM, 2006

so be sneakier.......got it!

Date: Wed Nov 1 9:51 AM, 2006

Maybe they could just try to run an honest competition.

Date: Wed Nov 1 9:57 AM, 2006

Here's a problem that I see with using coaches from other gyms as judges, or anyone else associated with other gyms. We are constantly reminded on this message board and others that it's a business. Right? If these are businesses, and you are judging a gym that has the potential of taking members away from your business, I just don't think you can judge that competitor fairly, whether you realize it or not. Our gym has had horrible errors that are corrected after the competition is over and people have left, with letters of apology from the competition company. So all anyone remembers is the results mentioned at the awards ceremony, not what happens afterwards when errors are corrected. Not to mention the little deductions here and there depending on how the judge sees it. We need a set of judges that have NO association with any gyms in the area. If I'm a coach at gym A, and our teams are constantly going against gym B, and here I am judging gym B, can I really and truly be objective?? We're only human. In a sport with subjective scoring, it makes no sense at all.

Date: Wed Nov 1 10:02 AM, 2006

I think the problem is it's very hard, logistically speaking, to do.

There are lots of coaches in ANY area that have "gym-hopped". There was a judge at Jamz last weekend that has coached at at least 3 all-star programs that I can remember, plus high schools on top of that. Cheer is a small world, and unless you're going to fly in judges from the opposite coast (expensive!), I don't really know how you can remedy it. You just have to hope that the judges will use their morals and do the right thing.

Date: Wed Nov 1 10:08 AM, 2006

WOW! Enough about GSSA already!!!!!!!!! If you don't like their comps, THEN DON'T GO TO THEM!!!!! They are still well attended comps so your gyms owners must like them and not think the way you do if you are still going to them. If all of you that hate them so much stop going then maybe they will get the hint, but if you are still going to them and hate them so much, then yell at your gym owners, not the rest of us because we are done listening to it. I am really tired of every thread that starts out with a good topic turning into a let's all slam one gym or one company! We know many of you don't like GSSA, let's move on!

Date: Wed Nov 1 10:11 AM, 2006

My last post was after "yep"'s comment, the ones in between went back on topic - thanks!

Date: Wed Nov 1 10:14 AM, 2006

whine whine whine. Think about this...companaies fly judges in from TX because some of you feel that is FAIR (please note that most 5 year olds say it's not fair a lot). However, there are some gyms/companies, cheergyms.com for example, that are well known throughout the US and then some. So once you figur eout that a judge might know them company/gym and they win (because they usually do pretty well anyway) you whine and moan because you think you deserved to win. YOu just can't win in either situation.

Cheergyms usually is one of the cleanest companies out there. YOu usually do not see them throwing scarey skills-and you know what I am talking about...fulls to the ground, back handsprings that you pray the kid did not break their neck etc. So stop whining and start practicing it's a long season ahead of us1

Date: Wed Nov 1 10:15 AM, 2006

Last weekend I personally knew each and every judge, the tabulators, the runners, 2 of the 3 spotters, about half of the Jamz staff handing out awards, and the Jamz Owners.

Two points to make.....

1) The only thing Jamz could do to fix this is to tell me not to bring my program right?

2) Sheesh you'd think my teams woulda placed better right?

Date: Wed Nov 1 10:33 AM, 2006

Rumor has it.... Royals owner works for Jamz...Hmmmm....just a thought.

Don't care about GSSA.... I care about the sport burning out!! Gyms will burn out if things do not get better when it comes to the how team are judged. These companies are making a lot of money they can afford to fly judges in. I agree, out of state judges and I also agree that CG is clean!!!

Thank you Cheergyms for setting an example!!!

Date: Wed Nov 1 10:56 AM, 2006

Morton is in London, England right now speaking at a cheerleading conference for an Associaiton that he helped create.

There are zero qualified judges in the US or abroad that Morton doesn't have some kind of relationship with.

I'll be the first to adnit that while I believe that there would never be any intentional dishonesty.......perception is reality and something should be done. At least for the major competitions.

Between Morton and myself, we have a combined 42 years working in the All Star Cheer business. We knew ALL the judges at Worlds. Our teams placed 10th and 15th so no help there ;) but that's besides the point.

I would like to see the USASF begin training judges that are not affiliated with the sport as of right now. I truly believe that Ex-Cheer Parents or former Summer Instructors from years past that spent a lot of time around the sport would be great with the right training. Plus they would have no knowledge of names like Morton Bergue, James Speed, Roger Shonder, Elaine Pascale, or Diana Miller.

Last thing....please do not attack the integrity of any of the competition companies. You just don't know enough about the big picture to make such accusations.

Danny Kahn
Owner, cheergyms.com

Date: Wed Nov 1 11:10 AM, 2006

The only problem with your suggestion is that after a year these NEW judges would know the names because that is what happens when you are involved with a sport or activity, you just get to know the names of those that are known to the rest of that community. So I guess there is not a fix to the situation...Just like sports such as gymnastics or figure skating...the really good teams are known to all judges and they still have to be impartial. Nobody can change it so no sense complaining about it.

Date: Wed Nov 1 11:15 AM, 2006

Thank you and I agree with you Danny. If we all talk about it and in a nice way, I feel things will get better. It has been put out on the table as to how we all feel. Thank you for letting us talk about it. Good luck this Sunday !!!