Level 4 or 5 How to choose?

Date: Wed Aug 23 7:47 PM, 2006

RE: Level 4 or 5 How to choose?

Date: Wed Aug 23 8:35 PM, 2006

What if there are no gyms near you that have true level 5 teams? To me it just seems to easy to say go to a gym that has true level 5 teams.

Date: Wed Aug 23 10:15 PM, 2006

also wrote:

It comes down to gyms feeling like they have to offer level 5 team in order to keep thier best athletes. If you do not offer a level 5 team, then those true level athletes are going to gyms that offer true level 5 teams. You can say that those kids are selfish but the fact is they want to compete the tricks that they have worked hard for. If you have a double full or a kick double basket and you never get to perfomr it then maybe you should move. YOu g3et better when you are around better people, maybe those level athletes should move ?

The funny thing about this statement is that it only applies to all stars for some odd reason. Really advanced cheerleaders, dancers and gymnasts will tryout for school or college teams and the other members aren't very advanced, but will only "stay on a team if there is a level 5", which to me is like ok. Its good you have a full, but you still add to the team while working on skills for future routines.

Date: Thu Aug 24 8:13 PM, 2006

Agreed wrote:

ditto on the last post. level 5 athletes should be at gyms with level 5 teams. It just makes sense.

But if ALL level 5 athletes start doing that, then it makes it impossible for any other gym to build a level 5 team, because every member that they had that was "true level5" left for another gym. Make sense?

Date: Fri Aug 25 8:10 AM, 2006

It makes sense and I do understand that scenario. It is up to the original gym to keep those level 5 cheerleaders there. I guess they do that by having the resources to keep AND attract the true level 5 athletes. (ie. skilled coaching staff, resources, reputation etc. etc. ) If they cannot provide those things then I guess the athletes will look at other gyms that can.

Date: Fri Aug 25 9:34 AM, 2006

Agree, but if all level 5 athletes decided to jump ship and go to big gyms that have the money (resources) to pay top coaches, only the large gyms would have level 5 teams. Thankfully we have level 5 athletes who are happy where they are and are just as satisfied being the top dogs on our level 4 team, who are working hard to compete at level 5 someday (hopefully sometime this season).

Date: Tue Aug 29 7:38 AM, 2006

Wow - I just read this thread and I am so frustrated.
Why is it that the level 5 cheerleaders that are leaving gyms to go to gyms that have level 5 teams being blamed, AND, being labeled as "jumping ship" for going to a gym that has a level 5 team??? Last time I checked the tuitions that cheer gyms charge are all pretty much the same, give or take a little. So, some gyms use those fees to bring in qualified coaching staff, experts in teaching cheer tumbling, maybe choreographers, offer awesome get away camps, great equipment, etc. etc.
And some of the gyms are not...so...how can they be surprised when the kids want to leave to better themselves in the sport they love?

Date: Tue Aug 29 8:08 AM, 2006

To Unbelievable, did you read all of the posts? These are responding to the post that said, point blank, "level 5 athletes should be at gyms with level 5 teams". The follow-ups are just saying not all level 5 athletes feel the need to leave if their gym only has a level 4 team. Nobody blames any that decide to go.

So you can stop being frustrated, k?

Date: Tue Aug 29 8:25 AM, 2006

Well you can look at that 2 ways. You can be one of many or a leader in a smaller ship. Those smaller gyms who have level 3 and 4 teams will have a level 5 and maybe stronger in the years to come. I think its funny how people look at right now and not the future. I guess its just how you look at it.

Date: Tue Aug 29 8:29 AM, 2006

As long as these gyms can keep the kids happy so they don't feel the need to "jump ship".

Date: Tue Aug 29 10:52 AM, 2006

Impatient wrote:

Well you can look at that 2 ways. You can be one of many or a leader in a smaller ship. Those smaller gyms who have level 3 and 4 teams will have a level 5 and maybe stronger in the years to come. I think its funny how people look at right now and not the future. I guess its just how you look at it.

I have seen gyms that can't seem to move past the level 4 stage. And it isn't because kids are jumping ship. I think it says something about those gyms, that they are not really equiped with coaching staff that can take these teams to the next level. If you have been with a gym for 4-5 years and you still don't have a majority of the kids progressing to level 5, then you may want to look somewhere else that is progressing their kids up to and past the level 5 skills.

Date: Tue Aug 29 11:34 AM, 2006

That is the hard part for alot of gyms in the bay and the valley. They cannot seem it get any teams past level 4. if you have been open more than 3 years, well that is a problem. you are going to lose those kids to gym that are fielding level 5 teams.
Why cant gyms that have been open more than 3 year get level 5 teams going. That is a good question too. It is hard because you want to stay at that gym but you want to get good too

Date: Tue Aug 29 11:42 AM, 2006

To Perspective, you say after 4 or 5 years a gym should have "a majority of the kids progressing to level 5" -- did you really mean to say that, or did you mean a majority of the kids on level 4 teams?

Let's face reality ... the bar for level 5 has been raised high these past couple of years. It was easier to have level 5 teams a couple of years ago. I don't think anyone should expect all gyms to have level 5 teams. Even top gyms that had a senior level 5 team last year may not have one this year. Does it mean the quality of the coaching staff has gone down? I don't think so.

I do agree if you have a level 5 athlete that is unhappy on a level 4 team and wants to move on, by all means they most definitely should. But I don't agree there's something wrong with the coaching staff if a gym's highest level team is not a 5.

Date: Tue Aug 29 10:02 PM, 2006

Hard Part wrote:

That is the hard part for alot of gyms in the bay and the valley. They cannot seem it get any teams past level 4. if you have been open more than 3 years, well that is a problem. you are going to lose those kids to gym that are fielding level 5 teams.
Why cant gyms that have been open more than 3 year get level 5 teams going. That is a good question too. It is hard because you want to stay at that gym but you want to get good too

I think it all depends on the type of kids you are getting. If you get talented kids to start off with then its easier to get a level 5 team. I don't necessarily mean gymnasts either. Just kids who catch on quickly and have discipline. In the Bay area or valley, most kids don't stay with teams long enough to get skills. People out here tend to think skills are achieved over days and not years. Once we start making cheer a priority, especially all-star cheer, then it will get better. I also can't think of many teams that have been around more than 3-4 years and don't have a level 5 team. The majority of teams that have been around field top level 4 and 5 teams. The other gyms have either gone out of business, which there has been many of them over the past 5 years.

Date: Wed Aug 30 7:24 AM, 2006

Glad to see you've revised your position some Perspective. Because I also didn't agree with your original post. I think we do need to add Level 4 to the category when we're talking about gyms having a top level team, because technically speaking, there isn't that much difference between the two levels. The problem is in the execution of the skills. I saw a few Level 5 teams that had very poor sloppy execution, with just a few fulls (five at the most). Yet they claimed to be level 5 teams. A good gym with a top notch coaching staff would have recognized this and realized they were clearly in the wrong level, and would have worked on perfecting their skills at 4 instead of 5. You could say the same for 4 to 3. It really does depend on the talent that walks in that door, and it takes a good coaching staff to choose the correct level, whatever that may be.

Date: Wed Aug 30 8:29 AM, 2006

Let's look at the gyms that are 4 and have no 5 teams. Who is coaching the 4? Have they been there for years? Maybe they aren't getting the kids attention. Shake it up! If you want to take your business to the next level and not see kids jump ship then do something for those loyal kids who have been keeping your businesses afloat. Loyalty can only go so far. Hire an awesome tumbling coach~ maybe a stunt expert (is that a job??? ;] ) If you really want to take your gym to the next level then you need to make sure you have the staff to hire it. When all the little kids in your gyms grow up they too will jump ship if you don't have the resources to feed them.

Date: Wed Aug 30 9:09 AM, 2006

I know many of the gyms and their coaches/owners in Nor-Cal and pretty sure they can teach double downs, body positions, inverted pyramids and decent tumbling. There might be a few in there that might have trouble, but thats how it used to be before levels, so im sure all the coaches are capable, if not there are plenty of conferences to learn at such as GSSA.

Date: Wed Aug 30 9:19 AM, 2006

I have to also agree. Personally from what I have observed, for the most part, it is not the coaches. It is the talent you have to work with. I don't care how good a coach you are, you can only push someone so far, and when they have reached the limit of their capability, that is what you have to work with. If you have more on your team that are simply unable to perform at level 5, you deal with it and work on perfecting level 4, right?

Date: Wed Aug 30 9:31 AM, 2006

I'm sure GSSA teaches the coaches safety & proper technique, but do they teach them how to work with kids and to motivate them. I know a few coaches who need personality transplants. Yeah, I do agree you only have so much to work with in regards to cheerleaders, but coaches only have so much talent too. Maybe after so many years of coaching a team with no significant progress maybe its time to step aside or bring them some help. Let's face it, the kids put lots of hours in the gym & parents pay lots of money, why can't the coaches give them a courtesy smile once in a while (how sad, but true) no wonder kids jump ship...not happy with the captain...not the level 4 or 5.

Date: Wed Aug 30 10:22 AM, 2006

Hmmm wrote:

I know many of the gyms and their coaches/owners in Nor-Cal and pretty sure they can teach double downs, body positions, inverted pyramids and decent tumbling. There might be a few in there that might have trouble, but thats how it used to be before levels, so im sure all the coaches are capable, if not there are plenty of conferences to learn at such as GSSA.

The fact of the matter is that just because you can teach it does not mean you can motivate the kids to want to perform them. If a gym has been openh for more than 3-4 years and they have not motivated thier athletes to want to obtain that level 5 status then I would have an issue. If your child wants to train witht the best then, that gym better put up or be prepared to lose kids. I know many kids in my area that leave gyms to go to ones that offer level 5 teams. Why not ? Those gyms are producing results. They are getting thier athletes to that next level. It is most definatly the gyms issue not the kids