Level 4 or 5 How to choose?

Date: Tue Aug 22 10:06 AM, 2006

RE: Level 4 or 5 How to choose?

Date: Tue Aug 22 10:33 AM, 2006

I don't think a team should go down a level just because they aren't winning in the higher level. They should move down because they don't have the right skills that they can execute correctly. There is only one team that will win, so do all the others move down? Doesn't make sense.

Date: Tue Aug 22 11:51 AM, 2006

I agree, you don't just move down a level because you think you'll win based on your competition, and then move back up because again, you think you'll win based on your competition. For one thing, deciding to stay at level 5 because you think the other level 5 teams are weak is not only insulting to your competition, but it's making an assumption that could come back to haunt you.

I agree with the post that said you work harder to make the true level your team is at work. If you're in some sort of denial and insist your team is level 5 but your competition has just been too tough throughout the season, don't try to find weaker competitions to attend, work harder! A good coach will know whether or not you're at the right level, and it should have nothing to do with the teams you'll be going against.

Date: Tue Aug 22 12:36 PM, 2006

I don't think a team should be allowed to change levels back and forth. Can they do this in any other sport that has levels? I mean cheerleaders are screaming to be recognized as a sport, but alot of things that are done by cheerleaders, allstars in particular, sure do challenge the credibility of that notion. (changing levels on a weekly basis or just for nationals, VERY subjective scoring with vast differences from company to company, 8-19 year olds on one team, and at the college level, being allowed to cheer for your school team almost indefinitely)

Don't get me wrong...I consider cheerleading a sport. But, how do we convince the rest of the world of this when we keep allowing things like this to go on?

Date: Tue Aug 22 1:20 PM, 2006

I agree 100%, very well said!

Date: Tue Aug 22 7:42 PM, 2006

But remember this....

when you are in level 5, you are allowed to do certain things.

when you are level 4 you are allowed to do certain things.

when you are level 3 you are allowed to do certain things.

It doens't matter what your team can do as much as if you do them well.....

soooooooooo, if you are level 5 and don't do well, DOESN'T mean you will AUTOMATICALLY win at level 4. If you are sloppy at level 5, you will be sloppy at level 4. And if a level 4 team is GREAT on the floor and are a true level 4, YOU WILL LOSE.

If you are a level 5 and move down to level 3 but are sloppy and you compete against a true level 3 team, YOU WILL LOSE. i'M SORRY BUT i DON'T BUY THE DROPPING A LEVEL STUFF...oops, didn't mean to yell.

Just cause you are level 5 doesn't mean you are throwing fulls in the level 3 division. But this goes back to the initial school of thought. don't put your team in a level 3 if only 2 people can do a roundoff tuck. You will go against full team tucks. maybe not in california, but in atlanta or dallas you will.

So if teams drop a level, soooooo whaaaaaaaaaat???????? what are you afraid of????? if your team is a REAL level 4, then you have NOTHING to worry about because you can do the SAME EXACT things they can do!!!!!!!! But if you aren't a true level 4, with EVERYONE doing standing tucks, then why are you in level 4???????

People need to quit worrying about what OTHER gyms are doing and start worrying about what their gym is NOT doing. If your entire team doesn't have something, you're gonna get beat. Plain and simple. So don't walk off that floor with a sour puss face if you get beat with 4 tucks against a team with 14 tucks. Whether they are level 5 or 15, they beat you doing what was allowed on YOUR LEVEL. You should have known better before you walked out on that floor!!!!

Date: Tue Aug 22 9:47 PM, 2006

I see your point, but I don't agree with it. Plain and simple, it's easier to do layouts and tucks if you've been doing fulls most of the season. It's easier to lessen the difficulty of your stunts after you've been working on level 5 stunts most of the season. How can anyone argue that point? When you decide to drop down to level 4 to make it easier for you to win, you are going against members of teams who have stuck to the tumbling and stunts allowed at that level, that is what they've been working on. They have not been working on routines that require skills above what they are allowed at level 4.

I'm going to use POWER as an example, hope they don't mind. It's like saying if POWER's Sm. Sr. Level 5 team dropped down to Level 4 and went against their Level 4 team, it would be an equal match. Do you truly believe that?

Date: Tue Aug 22 10:46 PM, 2006

Oh I do agree with you for the most part.... but they are still performing the same moves or passes as one another. It's the same exact tumbling. Just cause you can do a full doesn't make you a better layout tumbler.

We have one girl on our level 4 team that does the MOST BEAUTIFUL layout ever seen. Straight as a board all the way over but can't do a full to save her life. And also, her tuck is ok but she doesn't tuck enough to make it look textbook. Trust me, she would make any girl with a full look bad.

You CAN do the tumbling textbook without doing EVERYTHING that is out there. It is possible. So no, it isn't easier to tucks and layouts. How many of us have seen girls trying to learn back handsprings and they are sooooo high off the ground that it would be eaiser for them to just tuck? I have many times. Just cause one person is good at tucks doesn't mean they can do a back handspring perfectly. Yes they usually lead into another but they are each learned things.

And if your team is going to compete at a particular level, you have to be able to showcase ALL that is allowed with ALL of your kids. At least, if you want to win at all against anyone who is there. But sometimes the mentality of some coaches and parents is.... ok, betty sue got her backhandspring, so lets move the team up to level 2 and compete there. And then they wonder why they lose.

Now I KNOW that isn't the same but it's the same basic mentality. You can't compete unless you can do it all. and everyone can do it all.

I don't worry about people who move down a level. If my team can do it, then it will be welcomed competition. We will win if we are prepared. And being prepared means expecting anything and being ready for it. But it takes the entire package. Not just tumbling. If everyone was tumbling at the same level, THAT'S when the rest of the routine would REALLY count!!!!

Date: Tue Aug 22 10:46 PM, 2006

But you can't use Power as an example because Powers Level 5 team is a true level 5 team that would never need to move down a level. Try using someone else as an example. mmmmk.

Date: Tue Aug 22 10:49 PM, 2006

Like High Desert Cheer, lol

Date: Tue Aug 22 10:55 PM, 2006

It was only an example. Grow up

Date: Tue Aug 22 11:41 PM, 2006

Just stating the facts

Date: Wed Aug 23 5:52 AM, 2006

If my child were throwing double fulls and fulls and was not given the opportunity to compete with those skills that had been worked so hard for I would be upset. We pay alot of money for cheer. I want to see my child pushed to their potential.

Date: Wed Aug 23 6:50 AM, 2006

cheer parent wrote:

If my child were throwing double fulls and fulls and was not given the opportunity to compete with those skills that had been worked so hard for I would be upset. We pay alot of money for cheer. I want to see my child pushed to their potential.

If your full/double full child was the only one on the team that had that skill would you expect the team to compete level 5? They would loose every time. So I guess you would either have the rest of the team suffer loses all year long or move to another gym.

Date: Wed Aug 23 7:16 AM, 2006

I agree; it's a team sport. The level is decided based on the skills of the team as a whole. I know what you're saying though, a parent pays a lot of money for those skills and wouldn't want their child to lose them. It would be a tough call but someone in that situation may have to make a move either this season (if it's not too late) or next season IF that was their priority. IF their main concern is the skills their child is acquiring, I'd say it's time to look at other opportunities. But for others, I know that's just one of many reasons why they are with a particular gym and why their son/daughter cheers.

Date: Wed Aug 23 9:42 AM, 2006

in an individual sport if your child cannot compete their higher tumbling skill because his or her team is not competing at that level. I agree with all the previous posts that talk about it being a team sport. As stated earlier this happens at all levels of cheer. I remember being frustrated last season that my daughter who had a layout, was competing on a level three team. A major portion of her team could compete level 4 and that is what they were hoping to do, but the stunting was just not there. Guess what they rocked level three and had a blast!

What is interesting is how everyone is itching to have a level 5 team! Let's not rush to have level 5 teams. Let's take the time to focus on safety and technique. I am seeing alot of sloppy tumbling technique as well as stunting technique all in the name of competing level 5.

I say compete in the level where a majority of your team is at! But please make sure the technique is pretty.

Date: Wed Aug 23 12:27 PM, 2006

I competely agree with you. But what if you have a coach that tell theie team they are going level 5 but really they are a level 4 team. They compete a whole year level5 come in dead last every comp..Then the coach finally at the last 2 comp competes them at level 4 and they come in 2nd at one and 1st at the other. Mind you the last place was just cause they didn't have the tumbling. They had 3 full and 1 double , couple layouts and tucks but not full squad. There stunting was good and the routine was fun. When the came in last at all the comps. they hit nearly or perfect routines. In this case do you think it is a coaches error in placing a teams that is really a good solid level 4 team in a level to high? I know I wished so did alot of other parents that they had switched after the first 2 comps. It's not good for the psyche to lose all the time.

Date: Wed Aug 23 12:27 PM, 2006

I don't understand how people cannot get that people, including coaches make mistakes. Maybe in the beginning of the season they want to be level 5 and keep pushing it, but in the end they finally admit they should be level 4 . Whats wrong with that. Regardless of the reasons. Powerhouse teams like Cheer Athletics don't have to worry about that, but its those borderline level 4/5 teams that do.

Date: Wed Aug 23 1:10 PM, 2006

This goes back to the post that said a good coach should know after the first two or three competitions which level to compete at. It's a shame this particular coach waited until the end of the season. Maybe this was a situation where it sounded better to say you're a level 5 team, and it put some people into a kind of denial. I can sort of understand teams working hard in a level that challenges them, but either the skills at that level are there or they're not. Until they're there, why not compete at the level you're at, not the level you want to be at? I dunno, it just seems likethat's common sense, maybe a coach in this situation can shed some light and help us see their point of view.

Some teams want the best of both worlds. They want to say they've been level 5 for most of the season, and then they want to say they won at Nationals (when they drop to level 4 to win). That to me is wrong. There's nothing wrong with being Level 4 from beginning to end; it's a level with very tough competition. I think that will be even more evident this coming season.

Date: Wed Aug 23 1:14 PM, 2006

It comes down to gyms feeling like they have to offer level 5 team in order to keep thier best athletes. If you do not offer a level 5 team, then those true level athletes are going to gyms that offer true level 5 teams. You can say that those kids are selfish but the fact is they want to compete the tricks that they have worked hard for. If you have a double full or a kick double basket and you never get to perfomr it then maybe you should move. YOu g3et better when you are around better people, maybe those level athletes should move ?