It's easy. Look around for a gym that names their teams immediately after tryouts - not after practicing the entire summer. I know of several in Northern California, my child has been on two teams where teams are named immediately and THEN we sign contracts, and we're very happy with where she is now. I'm not going to name names because we'll have a big mud-slinging thread on our hands yet again, but you can find this out with a little research before you just dive in and sign up somewhere. Also, both of these gyms let me/my daughter "try out" the programs for about a month before we signed anything other than a liability waiver.

Also, as far as "pay or die"...I think you'd be surprised to find out how weak these contracts are when contested. You can get out of it having paid just what you've paid so far, if you do it early enough, and go somewhere that makes you happy. Don't let them scare you. They can't hold you liable for expenses that they themselves have not incurred.

The part that someone wrote about having to pay the full value of the contract even if you MOVED freaks me out!!! Are you telling me that if you/your husband got a job transfer to New York tomorrow you'd be stuck with the payments? That is ridiculous.

I don't even know what gyms we are talking about here but you guys need to be stronger and smarter consumers!

Yes, we need to be stronger/smarter consumers, but... I don't think anyone signs up with a particular gym because of their policy on contracts, do they? Most people choose a gym for other reasons, and then just simply follow their rules. I'm not saying there isn't anything wrong with some of these ridiculous rules, but I am saying that the contract issue is not something that typically determines which gym to use, for most people.

Some gyms do preliminary placements by level, to give the levels a chance to work together. Immediate team placements based on a short look at someone at tryouts doesn't always work out. Sometimes you just don't know until you watch them all summer to see what their strengths/weaknesses are. But if by the end of the summer, a child doesn't like where they ultimately end up and is unhappy to the point where they want to leave, they should have that option before the season starts, with no obligation to a contract.

Once the competition season starts, that's a whole different issue. Still, there should be a way out if families need to pull their child out for a good reason.

I'm going to start off by saying that I am no longer involved with allstar cheerleading and therefore am not affiliated with ANY particular gym. And secondly, regardless of how you want to read this message, it is not meant to be an attack on anyone in particular, nor is it written in a malicious manner. It's just my opinion on things, read the words as words and leave it at that.

That being said, I find it concerning that people feel that they are "entitled" to a specific team placement. There is NO other sport that I have ever heard of that guarantees that if you are at a certain level one year you will remain at that level or higher in the following years. In gymnastics if you compete a level one year and are not competitive enough (meaning that you don't qualify for the state competition) you can, by your coach, be moved down to a lower level. I've seen it happen a million times. For most sports (i.e. football, baseball, soccer, swimming, etc.) there are tryouts held every year and you are placed on the appropriate team for your skill level at that time. If one year there isn't a lot of talent then maybe you get to compete on the "best" team in the program. But if the following year there is an abundance of talent that tries out, you may be placed on the next level down because there are just that many more kids that are better than you. Each year is assessed individually and the teams are assembled accordingly.

I also feel like the coaches "take it or leave it" attitude is the only approach you can take. If a coach allows your child to "pick" which team he/she wants to be on, what do they do when the next parent comes around asking to move their child up? Parents have to remember that while they care most about their child's placement and feelings, a coach or director has to look at 30, 60, 100, 300 kids and place them in the best way they can. There is no way to please everyone, and usually as a coach you just have to cut your losses if someone is really adamant about getting what they want or quitting. If you give in once, you have to give in every time and pretty soon your parents and their cheerleaders are running your gym. I've seen it happen before and those gyms are no longer open, it truly doesn't work, and sometimes as a director you just have to draw a line at how much influence a parent or child can have.

And my final point, about contracts. The contracts that I am familiar with give you a couple of outs. Usually you sign the contract before you can practice, this does mean that you don't know what team you are going to be on. If you make an assumption about which team your child will be placed on, I don't see how you can blame a gym for that. These contracts also allow that if you quit before the end of the summer you are only responsible for paying for things like; uniform, camp, and the tuition for the months that you have been there. I also believe they give you another date kind of mid-season (maybe December) again you are responsible for the services you have received up to that point, any competitions that the gym has already paid for, etc. And then yes if you quit after that mid point you are responsible for paying for the rest of the season. I don't know if this is a common way to do contracts or what, but I do know that it does give you some flexibility when it comes to choosing to leave. In my opinion, if you choose to sign a contract, you are saying that you have read and understood the terms of that contract. If it says "your child will remain on this team throughout the season" then you are entitled to be angry about you child being moved. But if it doesn't state that, or if it specifically says that they may be moved, then by signing the contract you agreed to those conditions and I don't feel like you have room to complain about it later.


Again, please don't read anything into my words that isn't there, it's all just my take on things!

Okay so let's say, Nelson, for the sake of argument, that a family signs a contract, the kid quits, and continues to pay you the money. So you had (just for example's sake) a team of 20, now you have a team of 19. YOUR costs do not change - things like rent, coach's salary, utilities remain the same, and actually, you are now paying competition fees for 19 instead of 20. Why should you get to walk away with a profit of $500 (or whatever) in competition fees that you aren't paying? It's not like you're going to continue to register 20 kids for competition if there aren't that many on the team.

I mean, your expenses are your expenses whether the kids are there or not. Are your teams maxed out and turning kids away because you have no room? If not, then you are not "losing" money you didn't have in the first place.

I get that when a kid quits, it's a pain. You have to rearrange routines or find someone to temporarily fill their spot. It's $xxx per month in tuition that you aren't getting that you would have been (but you're now not providing that service to them anyway). I get that the contract scares families into a commitment - you don't have to worry about them quitting during the season because they're afraid of the financial penalty.

But other than your out-of-pocket expenses (things that you pay for in advance for the child - uniform, shoes, clothing, camp, perhaps competition fees that you register for early, whatever), why should a family be responsible for your set overhead? Your overhead is your overhead whether they are paying you or not.

How many kids do you think you lose in a season because the parents see the contract, think "Yikes, I'm not sure I want this type of commitment", especially ones that are new to the sport on a whole and aren't even sure if they LIKE cheer or not, regardless of the program? I think I'd rather have two or three months of their payments than none at all.

I don't know, I mean I can see both sides of this issue. Gyms have bills to pay and it's nice to know the money will keep coming in, even if all but 5 kids quit. But I also think from a consumer perspective that it's pretty...un-smart (trying to be nice)...to sign a contract for a product without even knowing what that product for sure is going to be, or what the quality of it will be. Which is exactly what people who sign the year contract without knowing what team their kid is on are doing.

another unhappy one wrote:

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She was ON the senior team last year and now has to compete juniors as well to keep her spot. Was that not clear?

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Why wasn't she on the level-5 junior team last year? Did she join late and that team was already full, so with her skills she had nowhere to be placed but the leve-5 Sr team? Or did the gym not even have a level-5 junior team last year, so again their was nowhere to be placed but the level-5 senior team?

Things change every year. We can't expect "tenure" like a professor. If a 14yr or under kid is a level-5 cheerleader, and their gym has a level-5 Junior team, that's where that kid belongs. If they are offered the opportunity to also be on the level-5 Senior team, good for them. If they're too busy with school work, don't do the Senior team. Or a better solution, give up something else......like hours of wasted television time on the couch or on myspace.com. :)

Another solution could be to ask your gym if they could set aside some room in the gym for kids to do their homework. Most Gyms want to utilize every square foot of space for things that can bring money in (meaning mats & equipment), but if the Gym truly cares about the kids they'd probably be willing to create some space for school work.

In defense of Nelson, he said that he wasn't in it for the money because people love to throw that one out there each time this discussion comes up.

And as for the "you don't know what you are getting" excuse, you can't use that one with Cheergyms. If you attended their parent meeting, you would KNOW what you are getting in to. They are up front with everything from day one.

I am NOT with Cheergyms any longer. I moved. But being that we went to several different gyms before choosing one in another part of the state, I can tell you this with certainty, there are MANY MANY gyms out there who take your money and run. I can name two right off the top of my head. They are out there. And they are still in business, amazingly.

So signing a contract is a must because you can find out whats going to happen and when. And when and if it DOESN'T happen, you have it in writing.

But asking to have a placement on a team that your child does not belong is not part of that contract. If the coach needs to move your child, that's the "business" of cheerleading. Coaches create competitive teams to WIN, not to appease the feelings and self esteem of each kid. That happens with the coaching that they get, not the team that they are on.

Are the two of you from the same gym? Is this going on in Nor Cal? If so I bet you have other options and can go to another gym that will place your child on a team.

Maybe you really do need to just check out the other options. It won't hurt a thing to just look. You never know and if it doesn't work out, at least you know you tried. If it's a money thing, maybe the other gym might work with you.

I do know that this is how some gyms make money - "Oh, you want to be on the senior coed level 5 team? Then you also must be on the junior level 5 team (or senior level 4 team, whatever)." The kids want to be on that team, so they do both. I don't think it's common for gyms to do this by any means, but I have heard of one program in particular that does.