All NorCal Teams at 1 competition!

Date: Fri Jul 14 8:17 PM, 2006

RE: All NorCal Teams at 1 competition!

Date: Fri Jul 14 9:06 PM, 2006

oh believe me i am agreeing with you. i am on a small team and i see how hard it is. small gyms dont care if they get beat by the large gyms if its deserved. people who think small gyms dont want to compete against large gyms because theyre afraid to get beat have no idea what its really like. it has nothing to do with that at all.

Date: Fri Jul 14 10:29 PM, 2006

I have never seen a category where all 20 teams of GYM A compete against the 3 teams of GYM B. Each team is in it's own category. You are either Senior All Girl Large or Senior All Girl Small at whichever level you may be. You aren't GYM A against GYM B.

And I must add, if so many kids are going to GYM A, there must be a reason. The more succesful your gym, the more kids will come. The better your coaching, the more kids will come. The better your facility, the more kids will come. It's just facts. I have a feeling that some of those larger gyms don't have to promote themselves any more. Word gets out and FLYS in the cheer world. Kids want to go where they KNOW they will win.

Date: Fri Jul 14 11:02 PM, 2006

I don't agree with you at all about what you would consider "small gyms" (I guess meaning ones you didn't mention in your four) not wanting to compete against big gyms. We are small to medium, and have gone against "big" gyms plenty of times. It all boils down to the competitions. Example, American Championships is a big extremely well-respected competition. I did not see SBE or Cheergyms there. Does that mean they were trying to shy away from the Southern CA teams maybe? Does it mean they didn't want to compete there because they didn't think they would do well (as opposed to going to GSSA)? Maybe they just don't like that particular competition. So if you don't see a small to medium gym at, oh let's just say GSSA or USA, it does NOT necessarily mean they are shying away from big gyms. Give me a break.

Date: Fri Jul 14 11:09 PM, 2006

To Dreamer, I agree, I would love to see all the NorCal gyms compete together! I think we might see more of that this season, I hope so anyway. We're not a big gym, but we will be at the most well-known competitions that MOST of the big gyms go to. But we don't have a crystal ball, and unless the competitions are mentioned on their sites we really have no way of knowing ahead of time who is going to what. But we, like another post said, hang with the big dogs just fine (plenty of trophies to prove it).

Date: Sat Jul 15 12:03 AM, 2006

Wait wait wait wrote:

I have never seen a category where all 20 teams of GYM A compete against the 3 teams of GYM B. Each team is in it's own category. You are either Senior All Girl Large or Senior All Girl Small at whichever level you may be. You aren't GYM A against GYM B.

And I must add, if so many kids are going to GYM A, there must be a reason. The more succesful your gym, the more kids will come. The better your coaching, the more kids will come. The better your facility, the more kids will come. It's just facts. I have a feeling that some of those larger gyms don't have to promote themselves any more. Word gets out and FLYS in the cheer world. Kids want to go where they KNOW they will win.

That is the point. Large gyms don't have to promote because they win all the time. Sorry but when POWER, South Bay and cheergyms.com started they werent' all that. They grew to be powerhouse gyms. They were the only game in town so there wasn't as many options, now there is more so gyms will continue to choose a variety of events. Yes kids flock to winning teams, but some find out when they get there its not all what its cracked up to be. I have nothing against large gyms, many of the ones in Nor Cal I admire and love to watch, its just you can't survive in the beginning if your up against them at every competition. Yes, some small gyms may have a select team that can, but as a whole its not equal.

Date: Sat Jul 15 12:12 AM, 2006

I agree with you but then again I don't. All kids start out the same. You learn to crawl, walk, talk, ride a bike, etc. And with cheer, it's what and how you are taught. If your coaching staff is good enough, your kids will learn. Whether you have 2 or 20 teams, it doesn't matter. Your kids will learn what they are taught. The larger gyms just have the staff to be able to coach these kids and then the kids come in flocks. The smaller gyms will win if their coaches can teach them what they need to know. 1 team is against 1 team on the floor. Not 20 against 2.

Know what I mean? I have seen smaller gyms with spectacular coaching and therefore their kids will win more often than not. I have seen large gyms with yukky coaching and they don't win as often. And that's too bad. Most of the time it's a larger gym in an area that doesn't have options for the kids, so they are stuck with what they are offered. We have medium gyms around us and some are ok and some are terrible. The medium gyms do fairly well. The others don't do so well. Why people stay at those gyms is beyond me. Most kids don't know better and some parents just don't put in the effort.

But either way, a larger gym is most likely large because it has the staff to back it up. I guess the best way to judge a gym is by their numbers each year vs the availability in the area for cheerleading. If the numbers go down or the gym always seems to "stay the same", well that is just red flags for me. But I think we agree for the most part really.

Date: Sat Jul 15 12:36 AM, 2006

Can't believe I'm still awake. Thought reading some posts might relax me, lol. I think another sign of a "good" gym is longevity (did I even spell that right)? If a gym has been around for 5+ years and consistently grows, that's a good sign, even though it may not be a large gym. I'm seeing too many smaller gyms fold within a couple years.

And I agree with the post that said just because gyms that aren't considered large aren't at particular competitions, one should not assume they are afraid to compete. It's funny because nobody says that when large gyms don't show up to particular competitions, right? Or do they and I'm just missing it?

Date: Sat Jul 15 7:06 AM, 2006

Agree and Not wrote:

I agree with you but then again I don't. All kids start out the same. You learn to crawl, walk, talk, ride a bike, etc. And with cheer, it's what and how you are taught. If your coaching staff is good enough, your kids will learn. Whether you have 2 or 20 teams, it doesn't matter. Your kids will learn what they are taught. The larger gyms just have the staff to be able to coach these kids and then the kids come in flocks. The smaller gyms will win if their coaches can teach them what they need to know. 1 team is against 1 team on the floor. Not 20 against 2.

Know what I mean? I have seen smaller gyms with spectacular coaching and therefore their kids will win more often than not. I have seen large gyms with yukky coaching and they don't win as often. And that's too bad. Most of the time it's a larger gym in an area that doesn't have options for the kids, so they are stuck with what they are offered. We have medium gyms around us and some are ok and some are terrible. The medium gyms do fairly well. The others don't do so well. Why people stay at those gyms is beyond me. Most kids don't know better and some parents just don't put in the effort.

But either way, a larger gym is most likely large because it has the staff to back it up. I guess the best way to judge a gym is by their numbers each year vs the availability in the area for cheerleading. If the numbers go down or the gym always seems to "stay the same", well that is just red flags for me. But I think we agree for the most part really.

Granted it is a team against a team on the floor, but larger gyms have MORE resources. They many more kids and talent pool to pull from. Next if you have a larger staff, then they will catch more mistakes. If you have 1 coach or maybe 2 compared to 5-7 , then it will help every team. Yes most gyms break up their coaches into pairs of 2 for each team, but all the coaches usually help all the way from minis to seniors. Larger gyms have a name for themselves, so the stronger tumbling and stutning coaches will want to work and probably are getting paid more. There are lots of little things you have to think about. Its just not the competition part, its getting there. Some gyms are fortunate to start out in a gymnastics facility so they pull gymnasts, which gives them lots of raw talent. Those teams will come out strong, then there are those gyms that just come out and get hardly any kids and just trying to survive. You really just have to know and come from a small gym. There are only specific divisions for small gym, but its actually increasing business to the larger competitions. If they don't offer them, then the smaller gyms will go elsewhere. There actually is a company based out of Dallas offering events dedicated to small gyms only which I think its great. It's great to see Power, NCE, and Airborne all the time, but sometimes you want to compete with teams in your league and background.

Date: Sat Jul 15 8:54 AM, 2006

Ahhhhhh, I see what you are saying.

Actually we did come from a small gym and now are a part of a larger gym. And yes, you are absolutely correct that larger gyms have more options. I can see where the smaller gyms would want to compete against other smaller gyms but what I am wondering is.... how does one think the larger gyms begin? Now I can't speak for other large gyms, but ours was once small also. We just offered more in the way of a better facility and better staffing in an area that there just was none. So I guess we just got off to a good head start.

So maybe the key is to BEGIN with some good backing in order to grow quickly. But as for the competing, I guess I would have to agree with you now. I do see the problem but also really don't want the smaller gyms to think that they have such a disadvantage if they really put the work in.

Date: Sat Jul 15 9:36 AM, 2006

hey remember cheergyms is not a large gym.....they're small gyms run by the same people. That was said by someone @ cheergyms a while back.

Date: Sat Jul 15 11:04 AM, 2006

Pyramids has about 6-7 teams this year, plus many high school teams that feed into their program. Thats pretty good, plus Motions and 720 have that cheergyms.com umbrella which give them strong resources. They are a family which gives them just a strong background. They are by no means a small mom and pop gym. Their owners and directors are way to knowledgable for that.

Date: Sat Jul 15 11:48 AM, 2006

OC is a large gym that started small with 3 teams. At 20 teams and adding one more this month, we are proof that small gyms can make it big if they have the right people in charge. All of the money made goes right back into the gym and the facilities and staff are proof.

Date: Sat Jul 15 2:00 PM, 2006

I keep hearing about OC and how many teams they have, etc... etc..., but why don't we see more from them at the higher senior levels? Not trying to be negative, just curious. Let's not talk future, let's talk past (because I know someone will come on and start talking about all the great things they'll have this season). What about last season? I've never seen an organization boast about how many teams as much as OC, so I would expect great things from them. Yet they are not usually mentioned when people talk about the top teams in CA. I have seen their younger teams and they have been very impressive. So maybe that's the answer, the talent for the most part has been young? Just wondering...

Date: Sat Jul 15 2:58 PM, 2006

Yes, majority of our talent were the younger ones with the exceptions of some of the older ones we have. Our team last year had many injuries but you have to remember that we are only in our 3rd season. It's tough to have a level 5 team by the 4th season. Last season we had many many fulls on our senior 5 team till injuries KILLED us basically. Between injured knees, broken legs, broken hands and fingers, sprains, back injuries AND ALL FROM OUTSIDE THE GYM..... it was heartbreaking! Every single week someone got hurt from skiing, surfing, trampolines, school, etc. Yikes!!! But thanks for the kind words!!! We will get there!!!!

Our younger kids all moved up this season. We have an extremely strong Junior level 5 and a strong Senior level 5. Coed is still brand new so they are starting out level 4. We did some shifting recently, moving kids to places they better fit, but so far the teams are strong. In the cheer world we are still babies even thought there are many teams at OC. We got ALOT of kids from neighboring teams this season. And we brought in lots of new coaches to add to the staff. Last season we did as well, but we needed more.

Thanks for being so supportive. We wish everyone a WONDERFUL season and can't wait to see everyone!!!

Date: Sat Jul 15 4:38 PM, 2006

I would consider Pyramids a large gym, but Motions and 720 are about the same size as gyms people would consider small to medium. Yes, they are under that cheergyms umbrella and are categorized more as cheergyms than their individual gym names. But so were Colony and Focus, so being a part of a larger name (cheergyms) does not guarantee success.

I think it's pretty impressive how well Motions did considering they don't have the same amount of cheerleaders as POWER, for example. It says a lot about that particular team. I wish them more success this coming season.

Date: Sat Jul 15 5:04 PM, 2006

I agree....

Date: Sat Jul 15 5:19 PM, 2006

Definitely agree about Motions. People keep talking about how many resources the "big gyms" have. Yes Motions and 720 are a part of cheergyms, but they don't share kids with the other gyms. Yes there is the All American team that combines the programs, but the teams from Motions and 720 are formed only with their kids.

I also think people are confusing "big" with successful. Power is a relatively large gym for this area, but compared the the "big" teams in Texas or back east they're not very large at all. Same with NCE/SBE and Motions they have had 3 to 4 teams consistently, that is far from being a "large gym". I just think that they are very successful and they are well marketed, they get their name out there.

Date: Mon Jul 17 12:09 AM, 2006

I'm waiting for teams to stop "running" fom each other... Droppin down a level to avoid another team is so WEAK!!! If your team is a 5, stay in level 5... don't try to drop down and "beat up" on level 4 teams, Also when did it start being okay for all these co-ed teams do the exact same stunts that all girl teams can do? Is it impressive to watch three guys base one girl to any of you? I don't care how well the dude can tumble... if he's older than 16, he should be able to partner stunt without having two of his buddies help him out... I don't think gyms that have co ed teams spend enough time and/or effort on developing good co ed skills... No college team in America is gonna let 3 guys base one stunt, or let a male go up in a basket... I would love to see these kids get prepared for MORE than just "this year"... How about the gym helps the kid get a scholarship to college so he can use his skills to better his life... just an idea... I'm currently 21 and just barely learning how to stunt, but I sure understand now that sharp motions and tumbling don't get you a college scholarship... With all these all star gyms now days tumblers are a dime a dozen, learn to partner stunt guys... doubles aren't even legal in college anymore

Date: Mon Jul 17 5:39 AM, 2006

1. Every coach or program feel different about what level they should compete. Some base it on stunts, some base it on tumbling, and others on both. Since coaches are different, then you will get a variety of teams in all different levels. Again a few standing backs doesn't qualify you for level 5.

2. I cheered in college and not every guy needed to know how to partner stunt. You can go to MANY colleges and not learn how to partner stunt. Their are small coed teams as well for guys to be on. They should learn how to partner stunt, with a guy bracing, because at games I see that too which is fine. The point is for her no to fall. The only teams that will require guys to partner stunt are those old school UCA teams like UK,U of Alabama, ASU, Palomar and a few others, but more modern teams will take the variety of talent.

3. I think you shouldn't make comments about where teams compete since your not paying the bills for the teams. Teams go where they are happy not for where "certain gyms" want them to compete. Teams may not like Americas Best, Power Cheers Bulldog Classic, or American Championships for example. Thats why there are lots of choices. I'm just keeping it real.