HS and ALL STARS POLL

Date: Sat May 20 10:39 AM, 2006

RE: HS and ALL STARS POLL

Date: Sat May 20 10:41 AM, 2006

Texas teams usually require more individual skills from each cheerleader. Schools in CA usually require 1 maybe 2 jumps, make up your own cheer and/or dance, and tumbling is always optional or you get bonus points. The interest as a whole in Texas compared to CA is like night and day. They have a magazine called TEXAS cheerleader LOL.

Date: Sat May 20 3:04 PM, 2006

I think this has always been the age old question hs versus allstar. I coach at highly competitive high schools and our kids have all if not more the skills that some of our allstar kids have coming into our program. Im not trying to rip anyone since allstars especially pyramids does have some amazing talent and coaches. My point of view is more the quality of the program your with our hs kids i coach have gone on to cheer at many top colleges etc. You cannot compare high school and allstar in such a big group there totally different aspects of cheer. Hs is cheering for your hs and your peers and or competiting where allstar is cheering and competiing just for yourself which both are great. Just so you know our high school programs are very sucessful in both game and competitive cheering but you cant say allstar kids are trained better yada yada yada until you look at each indiviidual hs program and see how they train there athletes. My high school i coach is actually one of the top game cheer programs in norcal. Just another thought to think about. Best of luck this year.

Date: Sat May 20 4:16 PM, 2006

Well Nor Cal Coach you are very lucky to have hs students who can do more than the all star kids, but that is NOT the norm. And we all know that....

Date: Sat May 20 4:24 PM, 2006

Just wondering what you meant by one of the top game cheer programs in Nor Cal. Do you mean based on how you have placed in competitions? I know of high schools who never go against other particular high schools in their own area, again because there are so many competitions to go to. So unless it's handled like it is in football, where you go so high in your division, then your division plays other divisions, moving up the ranks, I'm not sure how you would judge the success of your high school cheer team except to say that you've done well against the particular teams that showed up at the competition you were at. I think high school cheer teams should compete the way football teams compete, then you could truly say you are the best in a particular area. Example, I know of a particular high school in our area who are so good they are truly in a class of their own. But they have never gone against the surrounding high schools because they all pick different competitions. I wish they would all go to the same one at least once (again, like the high school football teams in our area, who always play each other at least one time).

Date: Sat May 20 7:18 PM, 2006

That would happen if the schools considered cheer as a sport. But they are way behind the times that they won't. Even though cheer is harder than the other sports.

Date: Sun May 21 8:22 AM, 2006

While I agree Cheerleading is a tough sport, I would not agree with a general statement saying it's harder than the other sports. Anyone who has watched wrestling would know better than to say that.

And the conditioning that goes with football falls into that category. So that's a different issue I think. But I agree, if they thought of cheerleading as a sport, along with other high school sports, it would follow the same idea of going against others in your division, leading off to a playoff type situation, and then finals. I believe (but could be wrong) high schools with gymnastics teams do that, don't they? It would make sense.

Date: Sun May 21 8:50 AM, 2006

Yes, anyone who WATCHES those sports would THINK that they were tougher but someone who played those sports would KNOW better.....

Date: Sun May 21 8:54 AM, 2006

I hit enter too soon, sorry. I believe you are right also. Gymnastic teams do compete interscholastically because the schools recognize it as a sport. The athletes train to compete in a particular level in which to earn points for their performance and execution of skills. Oh wait, doesn't that all sound familiar??? Yea, they don't recognize cheer as a sport but that's only because of ignorance. They don't know better and don't challenge the system in order to educate themselves. Sadly since they are an institution of education........

Date: Sun May 21 11:10 AM, 2006

Nice wrote:

I hit enter too soon, sorry. I believe you are right also. Gymnastic teams do compete interscholastically because the schools recognize it as a sport. The athletes train to compete in a particular level in which to earn points for their performance and execution of skills. Oh wait, doesn't that all sound familiar??? Yea, they don't recognize cheer as a sport but that's only because of ignorance. They don't know better and don't challenge the system in order to educate themselves. Sadly since they are an institution of education........

The problem with making cheerleading a sport, is its not a sport. It's root and core is to support other athletic teams and traditions. Over the years it has increased in gymnastics and stunting,but the goals are the same. The problem is many coaches and cheerleaders, especially at the school level make these teams into competitive teams and they are horrible game cheerleaders. I have gone to many games and the girls barely stunt, have signs, do a couple of backhandsprings and do some chants. Now they are supposed to use those technical elements to LEAD the crowd and to keep them entertained. Now you have some schools with "comp squads" which is another problem in itself. IT divides your school cheer program and then takes up additional time for facilities, staff, and kids. School teams priority is to suppor the school then competition. Now the whole reason for all star teams is to compete and perform, for those who want love that aspect of it. That part of cheerleading is my favorite. That's why all star teams are there, is to compete, perform and to challenge the technical side. Even in all that, cheer is not a sport. I think its an amazing athletic activity. Being a sport isn't going to gain us more popularity, because look how big cheer is now. It's huge, the sport thing is just extra baggage and label to make a few individuals happy. At the end of the day its still cheerleading no matter if its a sport or not.

To end, there are some schools that are good, but I think for the performance level, many schools just do the skills, the all star programs are out there selling it and their showmanship is just outstanding. When I think of Top Gun, Christian Brothers H.S gets blown out of the water.

Date: Sun May 21 12:39 PM, 2006

The problem with that is that "Cheerleading" can mean many things. I would agree that sideling cheerleading on its own is not a sport. But competition cheerleading is CLEARLY a sport by any definition. Maybe we should come up with a new name for competition cheerleading and keep them separate?

If you are so adamant that cheerleading is NOT a sport, please provide your definition of "sport" that doesn't include competition cheer. If you are right, then that should be easy.

Date: Sun May 21 4:55 PM, 2006

Well, u said it perfectly CHEERisaSPORT.....

"Sport: sports
recreational or competitive activities that involve a degree of physical strength or skill.

Play is an integral part of human nature. Throughout history, humans have invented sporting and gaming activities as a means to socialize, to display skills and prowess, and to entertain or offer excitement. The earliest games may have been based on hunting and gathering activities. In modern times, with the emergence of professional sports, games continue to serve as physical and emotional outlets, as diversions, and as enrichments to daily life while also playing a pronounced economic role."

Now we all can argue our own personal views on what Webster and Brittanica really meant but I don't think we need to. Baseball started out on a patch of dirt or in the streets by a bunch of people who made up rules and went from there. Golf was the same. It was a game that went further. There would need to be ONE set of rules for cheer to be considered a professional sport and this is where the trouble lays. (the other conversations of different cheer companies judging, etc covers this so I won't go into it) but to tell someone such as Bryan that his days spent in that gym, tumbling over and over to perfect something that will cause his team to win, that what he does is not a sport is bordering an insult.

And to tell that person who leaves HS and All Stars for that scholarship in KY after all the injuries, private lessons and hours and hours spent with different teams, perfecting what they know, isn't a sport is a bit insulting also. BUT (and I have a big but here... quit laughing) cheer isn't considered a sport yet because we all can't agree on one thing, UNITY. We must unite together as one BIG team to make this thing called cheer a sport in EVERYONES eyes. Cheer companies, cheer gyms, cheer competitions, etc. Right now, Professional Wrestling is doing this. And they are winning the game. (watch ESPN tonight and you will see) And yet some will still say this is not a sport. To each critic his own opinion. But they are also athletes and they are in a sport whether we agree or not.

Now, I do have to agree that competitive cheer really must have it's own name because that is one of it's downfalls. You say the word cheerleader and every grown man thinks of short skirts, every teenage boy cringes at the thought of doing cheer and every girl remembers her high school years where you were chosen based solely on your popularity. Hey, short skirts, bathing suits and women voting was once out of the question. But all things can change. You have to believe and work together.

Cheer IS a sport by ALL DEFINITIONS. It's just not quite evolved enough to convince the nay-sayers out there and that's where we must work together.

Date: Sun May 21 4:59 PM, 2006

Nice wrote:

Well, u said it perfectly CHEERisaSPORT.....

"Sport: sports
recreational or competitive activities that involve a degree of physical strength or skill.

Play is an integral part of human nature. Throughout history, humans have invented sporting and gaming activities as a means to socialize, to display skills and prowess, and to entertain or offer excitement. The earliest games may have been based on hunting and gathering activities. In modern times, with the emergence of professional sports, games continue to serve as physical and emotional outlets, as diversions, and as enrichments to daily life while also playing a pronounced economic role."

Now we all can argue our own personal views on what Webster and Brittanica really meant but I don't think we need to. Baseball started out on a patch of dirt or in the streets by a bunch of people who made up rules and went from there. Golf was the same. It was a game that went further. There would need to be ONE set of rules for cheer to be considered a professional sport and this is where the trouble lays. (the other conversations of different cheer companies judging, etc covers this so I won't go into it) but to tell someone such as Bryan that his days spent in that gym, tumbling over and over to perfect something that will cause his team to win, that what he does is not a sport is bordering an insult.

And to tell that person who leaves HS and All Stars for that scholarship in KY after all the injuries, private lessons and hours and hours spent with different teams, perfecting what they know, isn't a sport is a bit insulting also. BUT (and I have a big but here... quit laughing) cheer isn't considered a sport yet because we all can't agree on one thing, UNITY. We must unite together as one BIG team to make this thing called cheer a sport in EVERYONES eyes. Cheer companies, cheer gyms, cheer competitions, etc. Right now, Professional Wrestling is doing this. And they are winning the game. (watch ESPN tonight and you will see) And yet some will still say this is not a sport. To each critic his own opinion. But they are also athletes and they are in a sport whether we agree or not.

Now, I do have to agree that competitive cheer really must have it's own name because that is one of it's downfalls. You say the word cheerleader and every grown man thinks of short skirts, every teenage boy cringes at the thought of doing cheer and every girl remembers her high school years where you were chosen based solely on your popularity. Hey, short skirts, bathing suits and women voting was once out of the question. But all things can change. You have to believe and work together.

Cheer IS a sport by ALL DEFINITIONS. It's just not quite evolved enough to convince the nay-sayers out there and that's where we must work together.

Well thats a great hope, but even all the people who do cheer and give up the same things that you listed don't agree that its a sport. It doesn't make the work less important or valued.

Date: Sun May 21 5:00 PM, 2006

A sport consists of a physical and mentally competitive activity carried out with a recreational purpose for competition, for self-enjoyment, to attain excellence, for the development of a skill, or some combination of these. A sport has physical activity, side by side competition, self-motivation and a scoring system. The difference of purpose is what characterises sport, combined with the notion of individual (or team) skill or prowess.

Encyclopedia

Date: Sun May 21 5:02 PM, 2006

I found this one too.... and look what was listed!!!! soooo funny

One system for classifying sports is as follows, based more on the sport's aim than on the actual mechanics. The examples given are intended to be illustrative, rather than comprehensive.

Opponent
Combat (wrestling, Judo, karate, boxing, fencing, tae kwon do...)
Court (tennis, shuttlecock sport, badminton, volleyball, squash, table tennis...)
Team (baseball, american football, basketball, hockey, football (soccer),Gaelic football[1] lacrosse, cricket, netball, rugby, croquet, cheerleading ...)

Achievement
Target (archery, shooting, dart...)
Display (gymnastics, bodybuilding, equestrianism, diving...)
Strength (weight-lifting, triple jump, shot put...)
Endurance (running, cycling, swimming, triathlon, orienteering, cross-country skiing...)

Sports that fall into multiple categories
Bowling
Curling
Darts
Fishing
Golf
Stock car racing

This is the link if you would like to look at it yourself....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport#A_classification_of_sports

Date: Sun May 21 5:11 PM, 2006

You might want to skim thru this internet encyclopedia.........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheerleading

Date: Mon May 22 9:18 PM, 2006

HS and allstars poll

Date: Mon May 22 9:41 PM, 2006

RE: HS and ALL STARS POLL

Date: Mon May 22 9:47 PM, 2006

I don't want to say that h.s. teams are less than, because many h.s. programs are fantastic, just so many school administrators & athletic directors don't put any emphasis on the cheerleaders so its hard to put everything into them. I just wish more coaches would promote the gyms, all star programs, and classes to have girls on both h.s. & all star. They do that in MANy states and the h.s. teams are great because of it. Hopefully California will catch onto the trend.

Date: Tue May 23 3:07 PM, 2006

Amen.