Competitions/Worlds Bids

Date: Fri May 12 10:06 AM, 2006

RE: Competitions/Worlds Bids

Date: Fri May 12 10:51 AM, 2006

I completely agree with you Cheerleading Fan. American Championships has been one of the best competitions we have attended. I don't even know if they offer bids to worlds, do they? But even if they don't, they would have numerous organizations attend anyway because they are so good at what they do, and appear to know what makes a good competition. I would go every year if we could. There was only one thing I didn't like about it.. we had to miss our other teams perform because the awards ceremony for my daughter's team went on in a different building at the same time. I know some like that, but for us, it did not work out well at all. We always love watching the other teams, and this was the only time we couldn't. I wish they could find a better way to handle the awards. Yes, I like not sitting through them for what seems like hours, but no, I don't like missing other performances.

Other than that, they are at the top of my list. USA, Jamz, others should see what they are doing right. Good for these level 5 teams out to get the bids, but it's a bit selfish for them to say they don't care if it's a bad competition as long as they can get their free bid because what about the other levels? They don't matter in the eyes of the high and mighty level 5's??

They don't want to compete in bad competitions just so you can go to Worlds, believe it or not.

Date: Fri May 12 11:06 AM, 2006

Perhaps I'm one of the few, but I was not a fan of American Championships. Although incredibly organized I am not a fan of the judging system.

Again, I know I am one of the few and this is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth (and try not to jump down my throat) but with American Championships I felt that it allowed and even encouraged poor technique and sub par choreography. Those were their only downsides as they ran a good competition overall. They care what their customer thinks and do their best to stay organized. Perhaps after this season we may give them another shot.

Yes, USA will have to prove itself to us again this year. And yes their reputation isn't glamorous. But, after a 2 year absence I think it's fair that we give them the opportunity to do so. The one thing that I do enjoy about USA is that you HAVE to have good choreography to be successful. Maybe they'll come through and do well, maybe they won't. However, as a company that has about 20 teams with only 3 level 5 teams, we would be absolutely silly to use a competition for their bids. After all, having one a paid bid from Jamz, don't you think it would make more sense for us to stick with them if we're talking about going for just a bid?

Nelson de Dios
Gym Director
Motions Cheerleading Gym

Date: Fri May 12 12:13 PM, 2006

I was at usa this year. I to had, had a 2year absence my child went to a gym that did not attend usa comps. the last time 3 years ago I said I would never attend another one I thought the judging was off base ,you couldn't video tape , I was very expensive, It ran late. I could go on and on. When we attended the regionals I was presently suprised. It ran on time you could video tape and there were alot of teams. We then went to usa nationals and again I was pleasently suprised YOU COULD VIDEO TAPE!. I went home drove an hour and got my camera. I had not brought it because you never were allowed before. The competition ran on time. The music was loud enough to hear without them blasting your ears out. (We had been at American championships showcase the week before and felt the music was to low. You could hardly hear it. )The awards were handled well. All in all for me the judging seemed to be right on target. No one will every be happy , but I thought it was a great improvement for USA.

Date: Fri May 12 3:05 PM, 2006

Nelson wrote:

Perhaps I'm one of the few, but I was not a fan of American Championships. Although incredibly organized I am not a fan of the judging system.

Again, I know I am one of the few and this is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth (and try not to jump down my throat) but with American Championships I felt that it allowed and even encouraged poor technique and sub par choreography. Those were their only downsides as they ran a good competition overall. They care what their customer thinks and do their best to stay organized. Perhaps after this season we may give them another shot.

Yes, USA will have to prove itself to us again this year. And yes their reputation isn't glamorous. But, after a 2 year absence I think it's fair that we give them the opportunity to do so. The one thing that I do enjoy about USA is that you HAVE to have good choreography to be successful. Maybe they'll come through and do well, maybe they won't. However, as a company that has about 20 teams with only 3 level 5 teams, we would be absolutely silly to use a competition for their bids. After all, having one a paid bid from Jamz, don't you think it would make more sense for us to stick with them if we're talking about going for just a bid?

Nelson de Dios
Gym Director
Motions Cheerleading Gym

That is funny, because thats the one thing I don't like about USA. They put 35 points on choroegraphy ALONE. Now choreography is important, but dang. The best scoresheet is American Championships where its one score based on your overall performance. I also Love NCA's because its 10 points in e very area of cheer. USA does not reward teams who have difficutly in certain areas. They reward you, but not as much as they should compared to teams who might have a flashy dance. I have seen it to many times at USA, thats why they lost alot of people. Its not cause of anything else, but mainly cause of the way its judged.

Date: Fri May 12 3:53 PM, 2006

Agree with the USA judging. I think teams that don't have strong tumbling or stunting may prefer it there because they can get away with it as long as they have flashy entertaining choreography. But to me, that's a different sport and the wrong way to judge. If I wanted to dance, I'd be in dance. I want to be rewarded for the skills I've worked hard for. The judging in USA has always left people scratching their heads, thinking huh?? Did we see the same routine? I find it so hard to believe anyone would prefer the judging at USA to American Championship, but everyone has the right to their opinion of course.

Date: Fri May 12 3:54 PM, 2006

I meant to say, I agree with the last post ABOUT the USA judging. I don't agree with the judging itself, no way.

Date: Fri May 12 4:08 PM, 2006

If you look at the USA score sheet, yes there are a lot of points rewarded to choreography, but it's not strictly about the choreography of dance. It includes your overall routine, your stunt choreography, your tumbling choreography, your motions, etc. This encourages creativity. How many times have you seen kids go up in a stunt and just stand there on their right leg for about 45 seconds and move their left leg around into 6 different positions? At American Championships this would most likely receive a perfect score, but at USA while they would definitely be awarded difficulty points, it allows the judges to take points off for the world's most boring choreography.

I think everyone has a different opinion about which judging they prefer, but that doesn't make USA's way wrong, just different

Date: Fri May 12 4:10 PM, 2006

We have been attending American Championship events ever since they have come out to California. I do feel sense of home with them as I know what to expect and they are always very consistent.

When I read Nelson's comment I was a little taken back by the manner in which it was put out there. That they allow sub par choreography and below average technique. Am I wrong to assume that your teams tech merrit scores were lower than you had hoped as that score plays a big part in your final ranking.

I have always thought of Nelson's style of choreography and coaching as clean, clean, clean that needed more difficulty. Don't get me wrong I respect the manner in which Motions always has clean skills but for you to recieve high tech merrit scores from AC you need to hit the difficulty side of things too. They do have a consistent deduction system and you will find that normally the clean routine wins.

I also am aware that the American Championships has one of the most committed groups of judges to ensure that your score is what it should be. I challange everyone to learn more about the judging system with AC and you will realize that they are ahead of the game.

I know that not all score sheets work for everyone. I have my favorties as do others. The best type of coach or director is the one that kind find what competitions best suit your teams style and Nelson has done that with Motions as many of us have done so with American Championships.

Date: Fri May 12 4:53 PM, 2006

USA wrote:

If you look at the USA score sheet, yes there are a lot of points rewarded to choreography, but it's not strictly about the choreography of dance. It includes your overall routine, your stunt choreography, your tumbling choreography, your motions, etc. This encourages creativity. How many times have you seen kids go up in a stunt and just stand there on their right leg for about 45 seconds and move their left leg around into 6 different positions? At American Championships this would most likely receive a perfect score, but at USA while they would definitely be awarded difficulty points, it allows the judges to take points off for the world's most boring choreography.

I think everyone has a different opinion about which judging they prefer, but that doesn't make USA's way wrong, just different

I think its great that USA wants to judge that way, but thats why teams aren't really loyal to their company. They have their loyal high school programs and select all star programs, but thats it. I LOVE entertaining choreography, but they need a more skill based scoresheet or just 1 score like at American Championships. Did anyone attend the American Showcase 2 years ago. It was packed beyond belief. After going to USA nationals for over 9 years, I have never the convention center that packed. The American Championships just speak for itself.

Date: Fri May 12 4:58 PM, 2006

Looking at Cheergyms.com competitions, are they attending all the comps that are marked all gyms? It was good of Danny to put out all the available competitions too.

Date: Fri May 12 6:30 PM, 2006

I can see how those teams will brilliant choreography but sub-par skills would not like AC. I really like it because I feel like it rewards teams for true difficulty, and not just easy things that are different. And I like that you can add up the technical merit score ahead of time to plan your routine for maximum scoring. I DON'T like competitions (USA, GSSA) that just allow judges to throw a random number out for things like choreography or "crowd appeal" that could have nothing to do with anything and are completely arbitrary.

Date: Fri May 12 8:29 PM, 2006

California Coach wrote:

I can see how those teams will brilliant choreography but sub-par skills would not like AC. I really like it because I feel like it rewards teams for true difficulty, and not just easy things that are different. And I like that you can add up the technical merit score ahead of time to plan your routine for maximum scoring. I DON'T like competitions (USA, GSSA) that just allow judges to throw a random number out for things like choreography or "crowd appeal" that could have nothing to do with anything and are completely arbitrary.

I like a mixture of both actually, epsecially in the all-star arena. I think a good all star routine should have a combination of high technical skill (at each level) & strong choroegraphy. I heard All-Star challenge has a good scoring system, but they don't have an event on the west coast yet. I think American Championships awards good choreography, but since they have 1 score on their sheet then it all comes into play as overall impression.

Date: Fri May 12 10:54 PM, 2006

To AC Supporter -- very well said. Isn't the judging at AC (which I agree, is always consistent and fair) closer to the judging at Worlds? I would think any organization would want to see how they stack up against the toughest judging and the toughest teams (typically) in California to see what it will take to truly compete in Florida.

Date: Sat May 13 8:29 AM, 2006

I agree AC Supporter. I think that American championships nationals grow every year because they prove to be an amazing competition company.

I feel that if a team has 20 doubles and has two touches, they should beat a team with 10 fulls who is perfect. Sometimes I feel that some of these other competition companys focus entirely too much on being perfect, things like making sure your thumb isnt sticking out when you move to the next formation.

I think that the overall impression of a routine is what should be what wins and I feel that American Championships is the most fairly scored competition there is. They times the number of stunts by the body positions hit and then deduct from there. They also count every tumbling mistake. I like how they break it down and score everything individually, this ensures that the best routine overall will win.

Just my opinion

Date: Sat May 13 8:53 AM, 2006

Isn't one of the objectives of USASF to help the industry be consistent between competitions so teams don't have to redo routines to fit a particular scoring system? So why haven't all these competition companies adopted the USASF score sheet? I think it is ridiculous to have different scoring sytems. In gymnastics there is one system to judge the athletes. If the cheer industry expects to make any headway and be recognized as a serious sport, they better start using the same scoring system.

Date: Sat May 13 3:14 PM, 2006

if there was the same scoring system why would there be different competition companys? there would be no individuality and it would be much more boring. i like the diversity.

Date: Sat May 13 4:34 PM, 2006

I see what you're saying NCE, but I would argue that the competition companies themselves should be the diversity-- how they are run, what they offer, etc..., NOT the judging. Otherwise you have a situation where organizations with nice sharp robotic motioned choreography, yet lacking in technical difficulty can choose competitions that reward that kind of thing, and they never have to go against the ones with true technical skills. I guess it depends on the goals of each organization, but I would love to see everyone using the same set of rules and judging criteria, because it would force everyone to work on BOTH, and placings and trophies would really mean something.

Date: Sat May 13 4:58 PM, 2006

If it's snowing that day you change your game plan.

If cheerleading gets anymore perfectly computerized it's going to lose what we all originally loved about it.

We wonder why no one considers it a sport......It's just not.

Date: Sat May 13 8:02 PM, 2006

But What Other Sport you must be from NOR CAL right....