Hehehehe, that was funny. Thanks for the laugh!!!!! I guess it gets really stressful on here sometimes. Good luck to you and your team this season. ;)

MATH CONFUSED wrote:

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Morton Bergue wrote:
Lance Wagers made a decision to let them keep the bid as to not punish the other 34 team members.


Not punish the other 34 kids??? What about not punishing the other teams that did not cheat, and deserved that bid?

Cheer Athletics had no choice BUT to decline the bid. What worries me is that Lance Wagers wouldn't have come to that same conclusion.

"Don't want to punish the 34 because a teammate messed up" If that same teammate would've "messed up" and fell down on his double full, would it be punishing the other 34 by them not winning? NO. You win "as a team", and you lose "as a team".

I can't believe (no, actually I can) that Lance was actually considering letting them keep the bid. Rules on cheating should be black and white, so NO ONE will ever be tempted to let that happen. You have to enforce rules equally, even when it mean punishing your friends.

Can I blame Cheer Athletics? Yes. Here's why. You are supposed to have documentation with you on all your competitors, in case you're challenged on age. This "age-problem" should've been discovered by THEM weeks or months before this competition, to protect the whole team from exactly this. If I was on that Cheer Athletics team, yes I'd be mad at that cheater kid.............but I'd also be mad at the "adults" (staff) who should have had that checked ahead of time. Why put your whole team at risk by "taking a kid's word for it"? NEWSFLASH: Kids lie. VERIFY everything yourself.

All this incident does is put in question the Cheer Athletics team that won a paid bid at the American Grand in Vegas. Since Cheer Athletics admittedly does NOT verify their own competitors age, how do we know that the paid bid in Vegas wasn't "stolen" either?

Cheer Athletics not performing the "due diligence" has tarnished their reputation. This will take a LONG time for people to forget. It will always be a lingering question in the back of people's minds.

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My kids have been involved in 3 different programs over the past 6 years (2 kids, 2 different programs, same year) Between those 3 gyms, 2 of them large gyms and one small, I have never been asked to provide a birth certificate for either of them. I doubt if it is that common of practice. The last team that asked for one was when we were involved in Pop Warner.

Just another Cheermom wrote:

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My kids have been involved in 3 different programs over the past 6 years (2 kids, 2 different programs, same year) Between those 3 gyms, 2 of them large gyms and one small, I have never been asked to provide a birth certificate for either of them. I doubt if it is that common of practice.

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EXERT FROM 2005-06 AMERICAN CHAMPIONSHIPS RULES BOOKLET:

All participants are required to gave proof of age (copy of birth certificate) to be carried by the coach each day at competition. Please note that if a competitor falls within the age/grade exception, a copy of their most recent report card must also be provided.

Failure to provide the above items upon request will subject teams to disqualification. In the event of disqualification, fees will not be returned.

.

Morton I think Jodi handled a tough situation with grace but that does not make it all right. And I think everybody will be watching usasf to see if they will follow through with their own rules. Also I am disgusted that ACA would turn the other cheek and allow cheer athletics the choice to keep the bid . Maybe they just dont want to lose their business.

I hope everyone understands that I am not condoning cheating, nor am I saying the situation was fair. All I said was that I admired Jodi and his staff for doing the right thing which was declining the bid. I know Lance and I believe he was trying to do what was best for the 34 other Cheer Athletics kids. Sometimes situations call for a different response. Was this right? Should Lance have used Cheer Athletics as an example, even though they didn't know what was going on? I really can't say. I am only going on the information given. Were the other teams cheated out of their rightful praise and position, absolutely! I wasn't there, I am not a part of Cheer Athletics, I have never been to an ACA event or even looked at their rules. I am someone who heard the story and thought the outcome was right when all was said and done. I do think that the kid and his parents have some responsibility here. No one has mentioned that.

I love the way American Championships requires proof of age and I hope every company adds that to their rules and policies for the 2006 -2007 season since age will be the determining factor not grade. For sure, at Cheergyms.com, we will be requiring each participant in our All-Star program to have a notarized, copy of their birth certificate so we know we are not breaking any rules. I am embarrassed to say that we don't have birth certificates for every one of our kids. I could have been in the same situation as Jodi.

I am glad everyone is watching the USASF. That is why I got involved. I wanted to help organize the all-star community. Every organization must have people questioning them because if they don’t, things do not get accomplished or solved. The USASF is new and surely not perfect. I hope everyone involved in the USASF sees these last three pages of this thread as a positive not a negative. I want the USASF to be something that can be respected. It has a long way to go, but I truly feel those that have chosen to be involved want the same thing I do. This is so hard, trying to get all the egos, and thoughts, and suggestions, and critics all together to make everyone happy. I guess it will never happen, but one can hope. :)

I don't know about the rest of you, but being in the cheer community for a LONG TIME (probably too long) I have made numerous mistakes, overlooked hundreds of things and have been accused of so many things I have never done. It is silly. I have made decisions because I knew it was best for a child and went against my own rules. Was that right? At that time it was. All any of us can do is try our best and try to be honest, have good morals and values. That's what we should be teaching our kids and that is what we should expect from our kids, parents, staff, other gyms, competition companies, the USASF, etc. And those that cheat. lie, deliberately break rules, etc. have to live with themselves.

Everyone will make mistakes. I just hope their hearts are in the right place. I know that is a huge mission when money, Boards, feelings, accusations, kids, families, pay roll, bills, weather, parents, anger, prestige, expectations, and so on and so on, come into play.

If you follow your heart and listen to that little voice that always is there you will usually do the right thing!

This will definitely be my last post. Call it “living in my own world”, call it “wearing rose colored glasses”, but I would much rather look at the good in people and trust in what people say and do. For me the glass is half full.

Jody i respect you and the cheer athletics organazation. I think what you and your gym went through must have been hard but i think you all handled it very well and did the right thing. I know that if i was in that situtation it would have been extremly hard. Good luck the rest of the season i really hope you get a bid this year bc your team deserves to be there. It wouldnt be a realy worlds w/o you. Your teams are AMAZING. No matter what people say Cheer Athletics deserves to be at worlds not only is the organazation amazing and talented but smaller teams such as mine look up to you awesom athletes.

The American Championships has been "requiring" proof of age since 1999 and they have NEVER checked for those ID's or birth certificates. It may be a rule, but is never asked for at registration. Just like the rule "no formal entrances", but almost every team does them anyways. There are MANY teams both good and bad that break many rules but they don't get caught. Seriously I can't think of other sports where you show your ID card. Do youth soccer tournmanets require the kids to show there ID's at the door LOL... Seriously our society is getting crazier by the year. We will go to ID bracelets with our Social Security # and birth place for cheer events. haha

This isn't the "pick on Cheer Athletics" topic. If you feel you need to do that, then start a new topic called that. It needs to stop on this message board topic.

This message board topic is supposed to be about the USASF, who really controls it, and what needs to change within it, so is can fulfill it's stated purpose.

The ONLY reason the ACA Worlds Bid was relevant to this topic was because it shines light on the "thought processes" of one of the USASF Board Members (Lance Wagers) who is also the President of ACA.

Lance finding out the team that won the paid bid had an ineligible participant, but then still offering for them to keep the bid speaks VOLUMES about his thinking. Cheer Athletics declined the bid, so let's move on. They're just another Gym. They don't have "legislative authority" over anyone else, so let's move on.

However, Lance Wagers IS on the USASF Board and he DOES have "legislative authority" or at least a 1/13th vote towards it. His actions are what really concern me.

If "the team that won broke the rules, but since they didn't know about it, let's overlook it and let them keep the bid" was his thought process on something that would obviously become so public, I can only imagine what his decisions are about things when he thinks no one will find out. :(

I'm sure the offer was tempting, but in the end Jody knew it wasn't right, so he declined the bid. Why wouldn't a USASF Board Member know it wasn't right? These Board Members were the ones that voted on the rules. The rules apply to EVERYONE. No one should have the power to decide when they feel/don't feel like obeying the rules.

This is what happens when "Rule Makers" create rules that are supposed to govern themselves. The POWER they feel from being part of the group that made the rules, gives them the attitude of "the Rules apply to everyone BUT me".

The USASF is supposed to "govern" the competition companies. Having executives from those competition companies on the USASF Board might not be the best idea. There's too much possibility for "conflicts of interest", either real or perceived. Either way, it creates resentment.

A new USASF Board (with NO competition company executives) made up of people like Morton Bergue, Elaine Pascale, Victor Rosario, Jody Melton, etc might be the better way. There would still be a need for some “checks & balances” so the competition companies couldn’t try to influence their decisions with “bribes” (discounted entry fees for their Gyms, etc for “favorable board rulings”). But at least we would no longer have a USASF Board comprised of company executives trying to pass rules to govern their own companies that they own / operate.

I was under the impression that the three year disqualification rule only applied to the actual worlds competition and not bid-giving competition. USASF does not sanction the other competitions, which is why some companies give bids in slightly different ways (ie UCA will only give bids in "elevated" divisions, Cheersport has specific bid and non-bid Senior L5 categories, etc...). So I'm not sure why their rules would apply to ACA competitions. If ACA has a set penalty it of course should be inforced, but from talking with those involved in the situation they did not.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see any special treatment in this situation.

Jody, excellent job handling a situation that is beyond difficult.