Here's a new topic -- two day competitions. Having just gone to one, I wondered if everyone likes them. Personally I don't. Injuries can happen after that first day, and there's no time for recovery for the 2nd. I think most (but I could be wrong) put more weight on the 2nd day which I don't understand. When you perform perfectly both days it's completely awesome of course, but it's hard to do once let alone back-to-back, especially at the higher levels. What do you guys think? Do you like them??
This is a GREAT topic. At first I used to LOVE them, but now they are very draining and seem take alot of energy. At the bigger nationals its understandable, but all these other "national" competitions its draining and it seems to require more of the team. Most competitions that are 2 days, there is a day between to recooperate or the times are varied so the kids have a break. I know at USA nationals if you compete on Friday, the finals aren't until Sunday which I think is a good thing. Sometimes I miss just going once and getting it done with. Would be ALOT cheaper too.
I actually love going to a 2 day competition and getting the chance to see all the teams compete twice . I agree that it can be draining but, I still love going to them.
The only one I would rather not do is the American Grand the week before christmas only because it becomes really stressfull when you have to travel so far to vegas and then when you get home you still have to finish up all the christmas preperations and still go to work. Other wise it is a really FUN competition and the talent it draws is AMAZING.
I both like and dislike them. I like them because I like the opportunity to potentially make up for one bad day with another good day. I don't like them because the girls get worn-out, there's no time to make changes if need be (for injury, illness, or just something that's not working), and preparing for comp and being there 2 days in a row really is draining on everyone.
I have to say I hate them. I agree the potential for injury is much greater, the kids get worn out, and there doesn't even seem to be a point. I remember at AB in Sacramento last year a team didn't perform the first day and performed and won the next day. When I questioned it I was told the first day is a wash and everyone just starts over. So unless it counts, why bother risking it?
I agree, if the first day doesn't really count, or counts less than the 2nd, why risk it?? Maybe years ago it was a good idea, but with cheerleading injuries on the rise and very much in the news, I think the concept should be revisited. Maybe that's why they seem to be less popular.
Most of the recent 2 day Major comps that I attended, the injurys occured on the 1st day, i.e., F5 at NCA, ACE at UCA, South Bay Elite at Amer. Grand, etc. If a team isn't ready to compete at 2 times, then don't enter. It isn't the fact that they have to compete 2 times, but rather, injurys happen. It practice and at competitions. Last year at WSF in Las Vegas, 6 teams competed 2 times and 3 of those 6, competed 3 times in a matter of only mins. apart. Nobody was hurt.
Most of the 2 days comps count for something. It might be a percentage of points, it might be qualifing for finals or it may simply be to obtain the order of competition for the 2nd day. But whatever the reason, a team should be ready to go on the mat or don't go.
Odd, I think you missed the point. Injuries happen at competitions, but typically you have at least a week to recover, right? It has nothing to do with whether or not a team is ready to compete two times, it has to do with unforseen injuries that can and most certainly do occur. How you perform that first day of competition should be all you need. You're out there giving your all, doing your best. You get one shot, and that's it (sort of like the superbowl). I just don't see the point of them, except the extra revenue someone gets from parking fees and other stuff.
I think 2 day competitions are great. There is nothing more rewarding to see than a team that is CONSISTENT. To be able to go out there one time and throw a routing and hit it, means very little compared to the team that can consistently hit their routine over and over again. Yes, injuries happen and they can be devistating at times, but if you have a team that is properly trained the chances of "unforsee" injuries is greatly reduced. The comment about kids getting "worn out" are you really saying that these "athletes" cannot do two routines within a 24-48 hour period of time? I know that at my practices my kids throw approximately 5 full out routines in 2 and a half hours along with many all stunt or all tumbling routines. I really think the question here is... how many of you like to sit through a two day competition?
Jeff, you and I get the "point." It really isn't about injuries, it is more about having to attend 2 day comps. I wonder if people would rather have their squads throw their routine once at practice and not have to practice more than once a week. Maybe do away with those "extra" practices that are called before a competition. I wonder how many of those are Saturday and Sunday practices. Now, on the other hand, if you don't want to attend a 2 day competiton, then don't. I wouldn't want to compete either if I wasn't ready on day 1 let alone on day 2.
Jeff's got a good point about consistency. But what do you guys think about just taking the best score of the two days? Let's say some people like to water down to ensure a clean routine, and they hit the first day...then they could go all out on the second day because they know that they have that clean score from day 1. Or, vice versa.
Or how about both days carry the same weight? That is the part I don't understand. Why should day 2 give you more points? Regarding comparing practices with competition day, I don't think you can do that. To land your full routine at practice twice or three times a day is not the same as being on stage performing your routine when you're on the hot seat for perfection at that moment. The pressure is not there during practice, and I don't think anyone can disagree. So the comment about maybe people would rather not practice more than once a week makes no sense. This isn't about practices, it's about the entire competition experience two days in a row. And yeah, that includes having to sit through them too. Two very long days ... I'll pass thank you. One very long day works for me. :)
I think I would prefer your idea Nelson -- taking the best score of the two days. Now it would be very interesting to see how the judges would judge a performance that was watered down for cleaness versus the one that had more difficulty but wasn't as clean. Of course by the time you found out which one the judges prefer (which one was the better score), it might be too late. :)
I miss the days when Day 1 was "prelims" and Day 2 was "finals". I liked when a division of 12 was cut down to a final cometition of 5. It was victory in itself to just make finals.
Those days are long gone though. :( Even at NCA Nationals.
The softening of our "sport" is whole other topic though.
I liked it that way too. Like you said, it was a victory just to make it to the finals! The only disadvantage there was you couldn't plan trips very well, not knowing if you had to stay another day or not. Maybe that's one reason they don't follow that format anymore? Just a guess. But one year we made the finals and even though we didn't win, we sure felt like we did.
The only reason that most companies dont follow that format anymore is because teams that didn't make finals would feel like they wasted money not getting to perform both days. I think that's sad. There's a lot to learn from not making finals and feeling that dissapointment. It only makes you stronger and ready for the next year if you stay and watch finals and know what you need to work for. It's like the baseball player that sits in the dugout after losing the World Series and watches the other team celebrate. As an athlete you MUST realize your lowest points to be able to reach your highest.
Why is cheerleading one of those (pardon the expression) "weak" sports that feels that it must hand out 12th place trophies and give gift bags, and T-Shirts, and award most spirited prizes etc.
Don't get me wrong. I love this sport. I just sometimes think that it's no wonder why there are so many stereotypes that won't die.
I completely agree with you. I think the reasons why Cheerleading is growing softer is because it is a female dominated sport and people feel the need to be "nicer" for lack of better words. I say treat everything the same. In football and men's basketball everything is straight to the point and everything is up front. IF you want to treat it like a competitive activity, then treat it like it all the time.
I think there are major diffences when it comes to cheer competitions vs basketball or football. First, cheer is a year round sport AND costs a whole lot more than football or basketball. How would you feel if the basketball or football games were only 2.5 minutes total time. You worked so hard for several months to go out there for 2.5 minutes. And you're done. Season over.
And, I don't believe the basketball or football games at high school level are "for profit". All the companies that hold cheer competitions are there to make money. And they can't do it when they eliminate 3/4 of the teams after only 1 day of a 2 day competition.
And of course this brings up the whole topic of "sport" vs "non-sport".
To disagree, with all due respect I believe you are thinking too small. All sports have different competitive levels and basketball, football, or soccer can easily be as expensive as cheerleading if not more expensive.
I'm just saying that I wish there was at least one level of cheerleading where we didn't reward mediocrity and cater to the uncommited.
Right now USASF is trying to do that with "Worlds" but in time that too will likely fall into the traps of accomidation. Adding Jr. Levels, skill levels, and easier ways to get bids.
I think this new thread is an excellent topic. We would probably get more feedback/responses if we started a new one .... maybe Is Cheerleading Too Soft? Does someone want to start a new topic? We could mention for others to read the few last posts in this one so they don't miss anything. NOt only do I think it's an interesting topic, I think it's one that SHOULD be addressed. What do you think?
ya wrote: To disagree, with all due respect I believe you are thinking too small. All sports have different competitive levels and basketball, football, or soccer can easily be as expensive as cheerleading if not more expensive.
I'm just saying that I wish there was at least one level of cheerleading where we didn't reward mediocrity and cater to the uncommited.
Right now USASF is trying to do that with "Worlds" but in time that too will likely fall into the traps of accomidation. Adding Jr. Levels, skill levels, and easier ways to get bids.
To "ya". I agree, I'm thinking too small.
I am counting on USASF to hold to the high standards they have started. That is my only hope for cheerleading. It has been a positive influence and I hope it continues.
I believe USASF was going to change Worlds to Level 6 instead of level 5 and that level 6 rules were going to change to include younger ages so it wouldn't be strickly for college age. Anyone have more info?