Okay, what do you guys think about cross overs? Should teams have them? How many should cross over....do you think it's fair? Any comments? What do you think about teams having 20 cross overs and girls/guys being on 3 teams at competitions? Is it right to have your kids with the higher skills be on all your teams and in the front of every formation?
The discussion of crossovers.....I will be the first to admit that I have kids that crossover. I never have level 5 kids crossover onto our level 2 teams but I do allow some level 2 kids crossover onto our level 3 teams that have aquired higher skills during the season.
Some programs allow crossovers to make their program seem larger than it really is, I myself do it to have an extra advantage. For example: I have 3 girls on my Senior Coed team that are in 8 and 9th grade. They double on my Junior Excel team as tumblers only for certain comps such as the American Grand. One of the 3 has very high tumbling skills that she does not perform in the excel division and the other 2 have layouts which is the highest pass you can throw in Excel. Our Excel practice and Senior Coed practices overlap for one hour and we have them run the routine a couple times for formation purposes with the Excel kids.
Some people say that this is not fair where others say use em if you've got em. I agree with the latter. For me I do not see what is unfair about it....it helps out our program.
For me one team to crossover onto is my limit. We have been to competitions this year where we have seen the same kids in three different routines, maybe four. I think that too many routines will burn the athlete out. We have also seen teams put a routine on the floor with 3rd graders on a Senior Coed team. I don't agree with that but that is the directors choice and what they see fit for their program.
In the end as long as the kids aren't suffering and there is a positive outcome I don't see a problem with crossovers. It is a widely used practice where I started coaching out east and it just has not been recieved very well out here yet.
In my opinion, the only time it seems wrong to me is when you have, for instance, a Level 3 team and a Level 4 team, but you see your Level 3 team isn't winning on their own, so you put a couple or few Level 4's on your Level 3 team late in the season, usually right before National competitions. The reason I think it's wrong is because you should be competing with your original team; how do you think it makes them feel when suddenly they start winning because they got some help from a few more advanced girls/guys (it's telling them, basically, they can't do it on their own). We see this happen a lot with teams. We'll be at some National competition looking at a team we've gone against all season, and suddenly they have a lot more stunt groups and tumblers. Gee, how did that happen??
Now if you have kids on the original team that have advanced, I think it's great to let them crossover to a higher level, like the post by "Nicole" indicated. Personally I don't see how kids do it -- with all the additional practices and having to memorize more than one routine, I'm always impressed with those who can pull it off!
I have been crossing over for 3 years and I absolutley love it. In the previous 2 years I have been on an all girl team and a small coed team and it is amazing how different it can feel on the floor. All girl always seemed to be more fun while coed was more intense competition. I cant imagine now being on just one team. I think that if the kids want to cross over and the coach is offering it, then it is fine. Many of the larger programs do not cross over just because they dont need to, they have enough skill already. I think with smaller programs it is a great idea to get the best out of the program. Also at competitions I love compeating twice, its almost like you get a second chance. In order to be a cross compeater I think you really need to have a lot of dedication for cheer and your program but overall I do not see anything wrong with it. If it is under the rules, go for it! Doing anything possible to make your team better is necessary. That might mean if a 6th grader has a double.. to put them on a senior team and it might mean taking the best of your whole program and trying to get them on one team together.
The only thing I dont like about cross compeating is that for our second team, we only practice once a week. I think practicing more would help with our stunting skills a lot and most people on our second team usually want to have that practice more anyways.
Also, I do not understand why some highschool teams wont allow their athletes to do all star teams. I think all stars make any cheerleader better. Any thoughts?
As long as the crossovers are following the rules and everyone is enjoying it then why not? I've had some great experiences competing on more than one team, it really gave me so much more than I would have gotten from just one team. It does take more out of you, but if you have the time and are willing to put in the dedication then it is well worth it.
Personally I don't like seeing crossovers that are added at the last minute to fill out a team. Like someone else mentioned, it often happens right before nationals. But if the same team members are working together as a team for the whole season it doesn't matter if they're on another team because on that team they're all working together for a common goal, not just last minute additions to make that team better. However, those programs are allowed to do this so whatever they're doing to make their gyms better, thats fine, I just don't think its as good for the teams if they're added last minute rather than if they've been crossing over the whole season and everyone has the same investment on the team.
When my son plays football, we get to watch him play many times during a game. When my son plays soccer, he is on the field almost the entire game. When my daughter does dance, she performs in several routines. When my daughter cheers, I see her perform once for 2 1/2 min. Thats it.
Now that my daughter is crossing over onto another team (she is in the back for both routines...tumbles for the lower level and bases for the higher level) I get to see her on the floor at least one more time.
Her gym does not over do it on practices...so it works out perfect her.
Yes, it seems like cheating. But... the rule book allows it. I know that when I open my own gym... (ceteris paribus to actually having the talent in my gym) if I've got teams that arent advanced, I'm going to pull some strings and start crossing over kids with fulls and doubles so that the team WILL compete advanced. This is of course, with the thought that I've got a small program of maybe 75 athletes and 3 teams. If I want to make a 4th team, I'll make my athletes cross compete.
But lets say I've got a gym with about 200 athletes and 7 teams. With this many kids and teams, I'd compete an intermediate team. Say one of my athletes on the intermediate team gets injured. Who is going to take their spot? I'd bring down one of my advanced athletes to fill her spot. But what if she works well witht he team and is a real asset to them? Why not keep her on?
This is just my opinion. I dont see anything wrong with it, but I've also been cross competeing for 2 years now.
In gymnastics my mom would be able to watch me on 6 events. In cheerleading, She would only get to see me once IF I didnt cross compete. She can see me on 2 teams now, but it still doesnt compare to 6 performances. I think that cross competing is a benefit to the athlete for getting more practice and becoming a better cheerleader, a benefit to the program you cheer for, and a benefit to your parents. If I had a kid in cheerleading, I wouldnt want to fly to Anaheim and stay in a hotel just to wacth my child compete twice.
Honestly, does it really matter? If the kid can handle it, good for them. They're getting the absolute most out of cheerleading, by being more involved and practicing more. And if they want to pursue cheer after All-Stars, it can only benefit them. And if the kid can't handle it, then its their parent's job to say no, if they don't agree with it, when the coach or program director suggests it.
As for the cheating matter, leave it up to the program. We all see the programs who claim to have a whole ton of teams, but have the same kids on every team. We've even all seen the programs that compete on team, and half way over half the kids turn around and walk backstage again to take the floor to compete again ten minutes later. If the kids can hit 2 clean routines back to back like that, good for them! But more often then not, the second performance is a train wreck and no one is impressed.
There's a bunch of different reasons to crossover kids. From replacing an injured athlete, to trying to stack multiple teams to create the illusion of a bigger and better program. And there are rules against crossovers depending on the program you compete at. (As far as I know, World's doesn't allow it.)
Competition is based on the routines that the programs and teams can put on the floor. Leave it up to the program directors and coaches to decide how they want to put their "best" on the floor.
Its not like the judges don't take notice to whats happening on the floor. Don't you think we should leave the JUDGING up to them?
Amac, I think the majority of us were fine with it, and the original post just asked for thoughts on it, which we were sharing. I only thought it was wrong when it's done to beef up a team right before Nationals, putting advanced kids at lower levels. You know they're going to land all the lower level skills, so it seems wrong to me. You really think the judges notice, especially on large teams, when there are crossovers? I think they have enough to watch for as it is. And if all programs/coaches played fair, I think leaving it up to them would make sense, however...
But in general, it seems fine and there are more good reasons to do it than bad.
I agree, and I was just sharing my thoughts on the matter. Like I said, it depends on the program and the reason, and to each his own. Personally, do what you gotta do.
And just a side note, I have actually judged MANY competitions in recent months, and yes, I, and the majority of the judges I have judged with, do notice it.
I agree with Amac on this one, when you are judging you can tell sometimes. At the same time, some of the smaller gyms have only one or two really strong tumblers and then plug them in every routine, that is when you can tell.
For us it is not that the girls with fulls and doubles do two teams, it works out on a need basis. One of our girls that does two teams is a base on one of our junior teams and then is a top girl in one of our senior routines. She tumbles in the junior routine but doesn't in the senior routine......it all depends on what is needed.
I personally don't like when you can pick the double team people out easily....that just seems more like favoritism than a cohesive team unit with everyone doing there specific jobs.
i think that cross competing is fine, as long as the athlete can handle it, for example i'm on 3 teams, and i love it, it makes cheerleading all the more fun and it allows you to be even more dedicated and spend more time doing the sport that you love! so as long as the cheerleader wants to and the coach is ok with it i see know problem with it.
I think the issue isn't whether the cheerleaders and coaches are fine with it (because of course they are) -- it's a matter of whether it's fair. Sounds like sometimes it's fine, other times (as mentioned by other posters) it's a bit like cheating (especially highly skilled folks going down to lower level teams just to win). The level is low for a reason and isn't meant for the higher skilled cheerleaders. I think cheerleaders should cheer at their appropriate level. Just my 2 cents.
What is considered their level in Northern California and their level in other parts of the country are two totally different things. Sometimes it works out best for certain programs to beef up their routines for a national competition. For example the Junior Excel team that won at the American grand had squad standing tucks and I can count on one hand the Advanced teams in Northern California that have that skill, so as a coach if you know that going in to it you do everything in your ability to put the strongest teams, within rule limitations on the floor.
Look at it like this: If I was a football coach and I new that my upcoming opponent had a fantastic passing game, I would pull who I needed to pull to cover those receivers. To me its called Defensive cheerleading. None of my kids or parents have ever expressed a concern about their kids feeling less important when the crossovers help out. Everyone is so important on the team that it is never a question of who the best one is, they are just a stronger team with the help case closed. They already know that and love having the strengths of the older girls while the older girls love being great role models.
Yes, but in football, per your example, there aren't different LEVELS. Levels are set up so that the advanced don't go against the novice. Now, if you put advanced girls on the novice team to "beef them up", not fair, right? I guess that's the point I was trying to make. Levels are there for a very good reason. But don't get me wrong, I know there are reasons to do it, but if it's just to win, I dunno...
I agree with your statement about advanced kids being on level 1 and 2 teams. I think that is wrong as well. Our Level 5 kids cross over onto a level 4 team. I guess it also depends on what your goal is a program and a team also. Once again it works for my program, maybe not for some others.
