Hmmm I like this topic alot. I do think that your a little wrong regarding the styles of those teams.

Pyramids/Cheergyms.com teams have stepped it up over the past few years and have clean routines, but parts are really exciting to watch. They are clean and consistent and I think thats what counts at competition.

South Bay- fun routines becasue of the choreography and the energy behind it, but can be sloppy because execution is not a 100%. Never the less, great program to watch, especially their jr. coed and their stunts.

American Cheer- Lots and lots of stunts so its very fun to watch. Their tumbling section is usually pretty clean, but they need some flash. their stunts, baskets, pyramids and openings are always very exciting.


I think what it takes to win is a clean consistent routine that your team feels confident in, but it needs to have parts of it that really capture the audience. You can do that by being clean and consistent , or fast pace and modern. The great thing about cheer its about your style and how you execute. Not one style wins over the other, its about how you sell it when you get out there.

Good topic, thanks. What I have noticed is.... the teams who say they have clean routines tend to be "boring" to me. (opinion here) The teams who have great stunting tend to have a bit of sloppiness to them. (opinion) The teams who have great tumbling tend to have poor choreography. (opinion) I mean, how many times are we going to see cross tumbling with the same girls going back and forth over and over?

I think (another opinion here) you need to have your ENTIRE team tumbling at the same level. All of your flyers able to pull off particular stunts and make them look easy. Teams love to put their best flyers out front, but I see the back ones wobbling and not going up or coming down clean. Heel stretches in FRONT not to the side! Arabesques while standing UP not leaning forward!!!! If you're gonna do a stunt, do it right!!! I'm sure I'm not the only one and I KNOW the judges see it too. You would be LYING if you didn't look for the bad parts of a routine instead of the good ones. EVERYONE DOES.

What I love the most is (sarcasm) the teams who have some incredible tumblers and a couple of incredible flyers who compete on different teams just so they can win. Your kids under 8th grade should NOT be competing on the senior team. Your kids that are throwing fulls SHOULD NOT be competing on a level 2 or 3 team just so it gives you a boost. Go out on to that floor with the kids that BELONG at that level and win fair and square. Don't be sandbaggers. (not that I think cheergyms does this, I am speaking to the cheer community in general)

As for styles, classic is good but look up the word classic. Maybe the teams out there need to be "innovative" instead of "classic". Push the envelope. Show me something new. Guns during scorps??? B-O-R-I-N-G!!!!!!!!! Basket toss at the opening? B-O-R-I-N-G!!!!! Cross passes with the same girls? B-O-R-I-N-G!!!!!!! Give the spectators something to watch!!!! Give the judges something else to see! Be innovative! THAT should be your style!!! Most routines are so predictable it's sickening.

Then there are the teams who go out on that floor and the level 5 kids are all hitting standing tucks. ALL OF THEM. All can do doubles out of EVERYTHING. That team has more than 2 or 3 girls who can throw a full. All know what they are doing and are on that mat, representing their gym the way they should. And those are the teams that win. We all know a team who has the "Full Team" talent. Too bad they are few and far between.

And remember...... this is strictly my opinion. No one is singled out in this post.

No one was comparing.... (read last sentance) ... Never heard of full team flyers but I guess that could happen if everyone went on to college and became flyers. I said ALL OF YOUR FLYERS DOING DOUBLE DOWNS OUT OF EVERYTHING. If your flyers don't, reconsider your level 5 status. I said more than 3 or 4 fulls... not full team fulls. Hyper-extended flexability? You don't need it. Just do it right and be flexibile, it will do. Yes, make it fun to watch (read sentance in paragraph 4) And where on earth did you read the comparison of a level 1 to a level 5? I said, don't put a level 5 girl on your lower level teams. She doesn't belong there.

You were reading what you wanted and didn't read and comprehend what was written. Read it again without being argumentitive and then you will see what I was saying.

Choreography includes tumble passes, stunt sequences and the like. Not just the dance sequence. And for a level 5 (NOT A LEVEL ONE) team, it had better be the ENTIRE package, not just a good dance. Otherwise you will be among most of the CA teams and not part of the 3 or 4 CA teams that have the whole package. There's a reason not too many Ca teams go to worlds. I don't make the level requirments. But they are written down if you want to check them out. If a level says you can do it, you really should be doing it cause someone else will be!

No sense in arguing here. You say want to hear what people like. Well, we like choreography that includes the whole picture. If I lose interest in your stunting cause it isn't up to par, most likely I won't see your cool dance cause I'm not watching anymore.

And read the following twice..... IT'S JUST AN OPINION..... ITS NOT IN STONE..... OPINION........ OPINION..... OPINION... sheesh

Well, I couldn't agree more myself. It seems like So Cal has kinda stepped it up a bit and giving the east/south a run for their money with the newer styles. They aren't all there quite yet but there are the few that are. Full team standing tucks are a must now. (level 5) To me, when a level is explained, and things are allowed, you are doing a disservice to your team or gym to not have everyone doing it. If everyone isn't doing that particular technique, you had either better hide the fact or lower the level of your team.

We are also level 5 and doubles out of everything isn't even a question. You either hit that or you're on another team. And that goes for all of the levels. If you are allowed to do standing BHS, why would you have someone on your team that doesn't do one competing at a higher level than their abilities?

As for styles, well, that's up to each judge as to what they like. You may LOVE a routine and others find it boring. It's just so subjective. So if the dance portion is so subjective, you HAVE to back that up with stunting and tumbling that's up to par with your particular level. This is where choreography comes in. The entire routine needs to be innovative to keep the attention of your audience.

Hopefully we will see some of the Nor Cal teams down here in So Cal. We don't get to see you guys too often and of course wish you all the very very best of luck. And even better yet, hopefully we will see you at Worlds!!!

I think California has had its time of being the "innovator" of choreography, but I feel the northeast and southeast are doing amazing things. Ever watch top gun and miami elite. Granted Ray jasper and eric little has worked with both programs, but there coaches put TONS of the creativity into their routines, uniform, and just overall program trademarks. I think the California style is getting boring to me. Many of the California t eams, especially in southern california, excluding american cheer are starting to get sloppy. I don't see teams such as top gun, world cup, stingrays, or spirit of texas looking like that. Those team set trends from coast to coast.

Thats pretty bold to consider an opinion "wrong"... but this way of thinking will go away with age and maturity. It's ok, I forgive ya! You'll learn.

And just cause a team does something and gets third doesn't make it ok or exciting. They used to have giant poms and skirts down to the ankles... and just cause they did that doesn't mean that it wins. It's just the "old way" of thinking. I am trying to get people to push for better choreography and a new way of thinking instead of going with the old, boring way. Have more people on your team who tumble. Show us something new. I dare ya.....

PS... trust me, we don't just watch Worlds.... hopefully we will see you there!!!

'Good Topic', the whole point of a message board is to state,comment, communicate and debate different points in the cheerleading world. In this case, its a cheergyms.com boards so I think in any case you should be respectful of their teams, coaches and parents. In any case, CA and Mavericks didn't go to worlds for the past 2 years. CA , Im assuming your meaning California all stars. They got a bid the 1st year and decided not to go.

My 2nd point is that you may have an opinion, but don't criticize someone if they want to challenge it. Competition and debate make each of us smarter and gain knowledge in the process.

You have a few points that have a little validity in them. Granted it does get old watching the same girls tumble, but if thats all you have then show it off. Any sport shows off their most talented people. Regardless if they cross tumble, come down the middle, or do it in the opening. I think you keep forgetting as well that we are in California, not the southeast. I can't think of one program out here that has more than one team with squad standing back tucks. I am saying the entire TEAM and having another team doing it too (ie. junior coed and senior large all girl). Many programs for some reason cannot get their kids to that level or for some reason it hasn't hit that point. Now CA,southbay, champion,pyramids, motions, american, fierce, OC all stars, orange crush, and a few others have good teams in their gyms, but overall the tumbling as a program is still building. You can't have all the really fun tumbling transitions if your team and/or program isn't there.

Your level 5 issue seems to be a little complex to me. Just because level 5 calls for double fulls and double downs as its maximum skill doesn't mean you have to throw that in every section. I have seen teams only throw 9 fulls and 3/4 squad backs and place pretty well at NCA. Now those teams won't win, but they will be competitive and probably will win at any California national.

I think the choreography in some routines are beyond amazing. I just think its what your looking for. People who are looking for flashy over the top routines, which is what I like personally, will find those more appealing. Others will go for the more traditional and clean cut routines. Now although I like flashy, I like clean too. Ie. Pyramids, Spirit of Texas, Stingrays. Those teams are all clean and all do well when competition comes around. I think what I'm the most sick of seeing is kids who do not know how to perform choreography right. Coaches or dance instructors teach them these britney spears style dances and they just can't pull it off, or they have these dynamic visuals but its so messy you can't tell whats going on.

Boy did EVERYONE miss the boat on my post.... I give up. It wasn't meant to be mean, aggressive, argumentitive or anything else. So instead of letting everyone trash my opinions, I will let you all win. You are all right and I am all wrong. Feel better now? Thanks for making me feel so welcome in posting what I thought. Maybe only cheergyms should post here cause no one else is obviously welcome. I won't be back. I don't need to be incolved in a discussion with closed minded people. You wanted opinions and then pretty much kicked me in the face when I posted mine. Thanks for making me feel so horrible.

coming from someone who would prefer that we all acted mature... that was pretty immature. but like you said, its ok. we forgive you. :)