I was hoping something like this would be brought up. I think, from what I have read on the message boards, that a lot of people are going to be very upset this season. I am a highly competitive person, but I would never put my whole season on the line- as being successful or not- on winning. I think setting a goal of being successful is important, but do any of you see that you are probably setting yourselves up for failure? I want my team to win also, but sometimes it's just in the judges hands. They may dislike your routine for whatever reason and you have no control over that. I just hate to think that some of these extremely hardworking and talented teams from cheergyms.com are going to be upset at the end of the season because they set their goals based on what someone else thought of their routine.
My entire life I have wanted to be the best. From the second I began gymnastics I wanted to be the best, I wanted to beat my teammates at competitions and I wanted to beat people I didnt know. And Jeff's right. Sometimes, you can't set a standard that high. My first year competing gymnatics I finished 37th out of 50 at a 5-state regional. Alex and Kyle McCarthy (my fellow teammates on Senior Maroon) were there, finishing in 3rd and 12th. Clearly, I set myself up for failure. But how?
It could be a number of reasons. Perhaps I just wasn't good enough, didnt have the experience, didnt work hard enough, didnt have the proper coaching...
But now I know I am good enough. I know I have the experience. I Know I work hard enough. I know that I have the proper coaching.
Granted, this is cheerleading, not gymnastics. A true TEAM sport. Not everyone is always giong to be on the same page.
But thats what makes it even better--I know I can help my teammates by pushing them--maye by getting them to work a little harder or maybe by getting them to try new skills. A perfect example; Cory of Senior Maroon usually didn't do back handsprings during standing tumbling at practice. People would ask Cory, "Could I spot you?" always replying, "No, thats ok."
Then, at camp, Robert, Kyle, Alex, and I pressured him into throwing a back handspring with a spot. I spotted him on the tumble trak that day, and since then, Cory is now throing roundoff Back handsprings on the floor and standing tucks on the cheese wedge, by himself!
Being truthfully honest and quite straight forward, I agree with Nelson on this one.
Nelson wrote: Tell me anything you want, it will not detour me from the one goal that I have every year.
i agree with bryan 100%... we have grown up our whole lives set to be the best at whatever it is we do. whether it is in school, in other sports, or in cheerleading, winning is what we do. for all the hard work we put in, winning seems fitting, losing is unacceptable.
yeah some people have set some really high goals, but hey everyone wins and loses a battle. if by the end of the season you know you did it your best, and yet you still came up short of your major goal, then hey what can you do? you cant do anything but give it your best, the best would be winning.
Message Board Observer wrote: Does anyone feel that people put too much emphasis on "winning" especially in a sport as SUBJECTIVE as cheerleading?
wut do u mean when you say cheerleading is subjective?
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Brittany
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RE: When is the idea of "Winning too much"?
I think since all we do is COMPETE, this sport becomes extremley competative very fast. Especially since it is growing as fast as it is. You see new skills and tricks every single year. Yea sure everyone wants to win, or at least do well, but we all know that is not good enough. We all know it takes a lot of hardwork and dedication to get it together and work as a team in order to win. I dont think there will ever be TOO much emphasis on winning, because thats essentially why we are doing this right? I mean sure you can say "i am doing it for the experience" or "it just gives me something to do" but we all know in our hearts we are doing this to succeed and hopefully WIN, you will get all the other expierences automatically along the way.
Brittany "Nothing hurts when you win!" South Bay Elite
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Nelson
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RE: When is the idea of "Winning too much"?
Jeff has a great point, no one wants to set themselves up for failure. How much would it kill people to go throughout the season thinking that they are going to be the best, they are going to win it all, only to come up short? In my earlier coaching years, I've set myself up and failed, and believe you me, I was absolutely crushed.
But you make mistakes so that you can learn from them. You hear me say time and time again, I want to be the best. And it's true, I do want to be the best. I want to be the team that breaks the rules, the team that wasn't supposed to win or make worlds or beat this team or that but does. I want to go up against some of the top teams in the entire Nation, and I want to beat them.
Yet at the same time, I understand what I'm up against and I understand that I may fall short. I've told my teams in the past, and I will tell them again in the future if it so happens to be, it's okay to be beaten. If you put your best on the floor, knowing that you've gone all out in all of your practices prior, and you're beaten, there is no shame. There is no shame in being beaten by a team that is better then you. I believe however, the shame would be completely accepting the loss and admitting that the team is just plain better then you.
I don't think winning is everything. I think the will to want to win is very important, but I think what the kids become while on my teams is much more crucial then a 6 foot piece of gold plastic. Bryan posted something that was a perfect example of what I am talking about:
"Cory of Senior Maroon usually didn't do back handsprings during standing tumbling at practice. People would ask Cory, "Could I spot you?" always replying, "No, thats ok."
Then, at camp, Robert, Kyle, Alex, and I pressured him into throwing a back handspring with a spot. I spotted him on the tumble trak that day, and since then, Cory is now throing roundoff Back handsprings on the floor and standing tucks on the cheese wedge, by himself!"
Here are 4 guys, all with fulls and two with doubles, helping another guy on their team get over a fear of throwing a backhandspring. At camp, when those guys ran up all those stairs from the gym just to find me to tell me that Cory threw his backhandspring on the track by himself, the look of excitement on ALL of their faces was priceless. I will take that look over a banner any day of the week...and twice on Sundays.
I want to be the best. Not just in terms of winning competitions, I want to Motions and cheergyms.com to be the best program to cheer for, no matter who you are and what your skill level is.
Jeff, you and I share similar goals. We both want our kids to blossom into incredible young adults, and I believe that both of us are very successful in doing so. We have different ways of approaching it but in the end, you and I, as well as every other coach in cheergyms.com both achieve this goal.
Nelson
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Souther California
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RE: When is the idea of "Winning too much"?
I've never met anyone who goes into a cheer competition and wants second or third. Emphasis should ALWAYS be to win if you are on a competitive team. People are so afraid of failure that they try to cushion the blow by making statements like, "we were robbed." or "the judges just didn't like us today" or "cheerleading is subjective". It is natural to want to make everyone around us "feel good". If we didn't do this, we wouldn't be good parents, coaches and teammates. We naturally want others to be happy. And that is quite allright. But there's a thin like between allowing failure and expecting it.
FAILURE IS ONLY THE OPPORTUNITY TO TO BEGIN AGAIN, MORE INTELLIGENTLY.
When you learn from your mistakes will you stop failing and begin from a better spot next time. You should be learning to be a better competitor rather than learning to fail. When you have this mindset, you will lose the stress of winning verses losing. As a parent, I know my child wants to win at all costs. But NEVER have I seen my child CRUSHED at losing more than once. And from this crushing loss, did she learn the very most. We were astonished that we got second place and it really hit us hard for DAYS. But never did they ever give up or say they wanted to quit. Why???? Because they learned from their mistakes and strived to make things better. Allowing your child to fail and learning from it is the BEST lesson in life. But not teaching your child to begin again, and with full vengance is a tragedy.
Go out there to win ladies and gents. Win at all costs. And when you don't, keep on going. You will find that no matter how many times you lose, you will be a bigger winner than anyone could have given you trophies and jackets for!!!!!
EXCELLENCE IS NOT A SINGLE ACT BUT A RECURRING HABIT.
What would we do with ourselves if something did no stand in our way??? The only time in life that you don't fail is the last time you try to acomplish anything. Quit fearing failure. It's there you make you better in the long run. So emphasis on winning at all costs is a healthy way to be if you have the right attitude and goals that are just out of reach. No one walks into a gym with a full or double full. You have to fall a billion times before you can walk. Otherwise you might as well have given up when you were 1.
Also, if you want your child to just "have fun" out there ..... there is always Pop Warner for that. But at what point to you challenge your child and allow them to fail? Who knows, they just might surprise you and win sometimes!!!!!
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a mom
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RE: When is the idea of "Winning too much"?
Wow! I was hoping this subject of "winning at ALL costs" would NOT come up on this side of the US with the cheer sport. I am so grateful that the sport has thrived so much out here in the last couple of years and it is SAD to see that now the belief that we have to WIN is becoming part of the cheer programs. Cheergyms.com has been amazing at giving my kids a CHANCE---they did not come into the gym having ANY gymnastics experience and now they are getting better every day. If WINNING at ALL costs becomes a norm than I feel for all the kids that would not get a CHANCE to participate in such a HEALTHY sport and that just would be very SAD! Yes, there is pop warner BUT they do not emphasize the WHOLE sport of working your body out to its limits and pushing yourself to do your best---Cheergyms does this and with GRACE! Cheer is just cheer it is not supposed to be a representative of your WHOLE self--in the BIG picture of life it is not whether you WIN alot of plastic gold statues but what you learned about yourself at every experience that will help you in ALL aspects of your life! Kudos to Nelson when he mentioned that seeing other team mates help eachother out was worth more than "winning at ALL costs" any day! That is what the BIG picture of life is---What you give to others will be remembered the most (that is what I try to teach my kids) and that losing is NOT failure but winning at ALL cost (hurting yourself or others) is definately not something to be PROUD of!
You completely read that wrong but that's ok, we figured someone would.... thanks for your input though!!! We truly value it! It's nice to see all sides of perspectives! Good thing that a winning gym also gives people a chance.... cause if they didn't, they wouldn't have anyone sign up!!! Everyone has a chance in life. What you do with it is your choice. Winning just might be one of your choices. But if not, more power to ya!!!!! Good luck!!!
PS Winning at all costs doesn't mean hurting others or yourself. It's basically a phrase that people use to say that they put everything and anything into their strive to win. Absolutly nothing wrong with that and that's where our top teams and Olympians come from. I bet their parents taught them all the other stuff too. They just have that special drive, is all. Kinda like when you say BREAK A LEG.... it doesn't actually MEAN break your leg!!! Too funny.....
A mom said: "it is SAD to see that now the belief that we have to WIN is becoming part of the cheer programs..."
I could have sworn this was COMPETITIVE cheer.... WEll, that's at least what I signed up for!
I truly think you read that post wrong. Winning at all costs is merely a phrase. We aren't out here trying to hurt others. But we are in a competitive sport that REQUIRES that winning attitude to actually win at competitions. If you don't have that attitude, what on earth is anyone doing in competitive cheer? I am glad my mom doesn't MAKE me do other things cause she thinks I should be an "all around person." She lets me decide what I should do. I just prove to her and to myself that I am doing good by trying my hardest and keeping my grades at a high level. And I want to win too!!! Win at all costs to me means that I do everything in my power to make it true. I sure hope everyone else on my team believes the same otherwise we won't go anywhere.
Seriously, it is fun but it is competitive cheer. You kinda gotta let your kids enjoy the competition and hard work. Otherwise they should be cheering for Pop Warner.
Something I have also remembered that I wanted to say is;
I have my fun winning. It's fun to win. I don't think I've met a single person that 'enjoys' losing.
My standard of winning is all or nothing- First place, without a doubt.
Failure to me is not acceptable- meaning 2nd, 3rd, 4th... so on and so forth.
We are going to lose. I've done it before. All my teams have done it before. But I wasnt proud.
On the topic of whether the idea of winning gets to extreme, no, it is never too much. My life is perfectly balanced with cheer and work and everything else it involves and winning is just something that makes me work harder in the gym.
Bryan, I don't know you but I bet your mom has the pride of a million moms. You have just the right attitude to make you a winner even when you get that 2nd, 3rd, or 4th place. You just strive to be better and there is NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING wrong with that. You are an assest to your team and everyone knows it. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You win at all cost !!!! I truly understand your drive cause my child is JUST LIKE YOU. At times she scares me but she is just "strange' that way. Trust me, you are not normal. lol But you are the few that stand above the norm.
You will succeed in everything you do because you will not fail. You won't allow it and that is what makes people like Tiger Woods, Donald Trump and others stand up and be noticed. Failure is not an option. Failure is just a stepping stone.
Keep it up. You are going places my boy......
- A Mom Who Truly Understands You
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Bryan
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RE: When is the idea of "Winning too much"?
You are probably one of the coolest mom's ever. My mom sometimes get angry with my cockiness, and granted I am a very cocky. Many times, I don't even realize it, or I feel rather more confident than cocky. Thank you for your 'support' is what came to mind first, but I think a speechless "Thank you..." its more appropriate. =)
But this is not just my opinion. I wrote it myself, but on behalf of myself and three of my best friends, Robert, Kyle, and Alex, on Motions Senior Maroon. Trust me, if theres anyone who wants 'this' as badly as me, it would be these three gentlemen.
But who else is with me on this?
-Bryan Motions Senior Maroon
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cory
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RE: When is the idea of "Winning too much"?
anyone that says their happy with second or third is either lieing to u or has really low self esteem, personaly i dont drive the length and work myself to the limit to go to a competition and be happy with being beat...ive been that way ever since i started sports. i didnt sign up for cheerleading to go home empty handed....i dont mean empty handed like without a trophy or a medal or something like that, i mean empty handed like knowing that someone beat you after all of your hard work, i couldnt care less about that gold piece of plastic that will sit in your gym and collect dust.
i absolutaly hate it when people say "that the judges hated us" or "we are better than that team we just had a bad day"
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cory
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RE: When is the idea of "Winning too much"?
to me, thats a sign of denial that the team is better than you or you need to work harder to beat them...
another thing that bugs me is people who think their better than others maybe because theyve had gymnastics experience or something like that. Its not as much of them thinking their better its the attitude they get like they dont have to try because their are other people on the team that only have a back handspring or even nothing at all. Another thing that tends to happen with the team when theirs someone with a full and the rest of the team has tucks layouts is that the team starts to rely on that person to win them first and stuff like that. just to explain it better, it buggs me when people find reasons not to try or just dont try for no reason at all...ive been blessed to be on a team where ever single person seems to try their hardest at practice, i know i work as hard as i can...
my little sister last year had this best friend named paige. they both had back handsprings and it was cool, but as the year went on i noticed that paige wasnt trying and it wasnt that important to her to get new skills, she past this thought on to taylor and taylor was stuck with paige on her back all year long so taylor didnt get to learn that much last year, but now this year, paige is gone and taylors learning so much i cant belive it.
summarizing that up, if you want to win youve gotta work for it, its not just gonna happen like that...you cant just let someone work for it because their good, you and your whole team has to work your butt of if you want it
cory motions senior maroon
i also would like to take the time to thank the four best friends that ive ever had in my life...that would be my fellow teammates robert, bryan, kyle and alex for pushing me and taking the time out of their learning just to help me out even know they have fulls and doubles and i had nothing(until they pushed me for that back handspring)
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cory
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RE: When is the idea of "Winning too much"?
