What to say about skill discounts...?

Date: Wed Jul 13 11:26 PM, 2005

RE: What to say about skill discounts...?

Date: Thu Jul 14 12:36 AM, 2005

Bryan has a REALLY good point. I 100%ly agree with him.

Date: Thu Jul 14 7:05 AM, 2005

Bryan,
I don't know you but I have to say I love reading the messages you post on this board. I may not always agree with everything you say but your a delight...

Date: Thu Jul 14 7:28 AM, 2005

Quote from Bryan:
"If Team A costs $1000 and offers no discounts and Team B costs $1000 with skill discounts, and your child had a double, I have no doubt in my mind that you would chose Team B."

I have to disagree with this statment about choosing one gym over another because it gives a discount. As a parent I look at the overall benefits of a program, not just how much it costs. And I hope I can teach my child the same. It isn't just about the money, or winning, or being the best in the gym. It is the overall experience and "life" skills that I want my child to learn. And there are other ways to pay for cheerleading, like fundraising. So, don't make a decision about where to cheer based on only one aspect. Look at the overall program and decide what is best for you and your family.

And about the skill discounts or any other discounts that are given, I really struggle with this. My concern, do the other kids with less skills end up paying more to make up for lost money on giving discounts. The gyms still need to make a profit, so they need to make up the difference somewhere. Are monthly fees or annual fees increased overall to make up for the "lost" money due to discounts?

Date: Thu Jul 14 8:14 AM, 2005

At this level (level 5)... I am not looking for discounts. I am looking for a winning gym. If my daughter is putting in the hours and getting those fulls and double fulls and so on... I KNOW she wants to put that talent to a team and gym that has a history of wins. Maybe that's not what most parents are looking for. I was even there for the "all-around" aspect of cheer when she was younger and less experienced, but at this level we are no longer here for just the fun of it. Now the fun comes in learning tough skills and going out there and performing them. The fun comes from winning or at least getting better scores than last time and knowing you helped your team get that score. So as for discounts, NO ONE needs them more than I do but I will have to make my own discounts 'cause I don't care who offers them, I care who takes these kids to Nationals to win. And this year it will be at Worlds. It's so funny how the attitudes of the parents change as the child progresses. I know some parents won't agree and that is quite alright.

We truly hope to see Cheergyms at Worlds cause you guys keep us all glued to your message boards and help us get to know you!!!

Good luck to each and every one of you!!!!

Date: Thu Jul 14 8:17 AM, 2005

You are only as good as your team. If you are there for "props" and want to look the best to everyone around you... then cool. But if you want to look the best to everyone around you in the cheerleading competitive circle.... you have to go where the talent is. Only your team can take you to the winners circle. Otherwise you have to compete individuals and do it all on your own....

andif this "new gym" doesn't have winning teams.... what says they can give you a winning individual routine and skills to stand out????

Nope, gotta say BE THE SMALL FISH IN A GOOD GYM..... A big fish in a small pond just suffocates eventually.

Date: Thu Jul 14 8:19 AM, 2005

That last one was for Nelson's question... sorry....

Date: Thu Jul 14 8:23 AM, 2005

mom of level 5 kid in the US,

i totally agree with you... that is my perspective, some may not agree with me, but that is how i feel. i also agree with bryan saying that not everyone is meant for every gym. some people want to be in a gym that wants to win, and some want one to get out of the house and have fun.

personally i wont lie, i just want to win, and be the best. everything else is extra, not that its not good or its not important, i just want to be the best. that is my perspective on it.

Date: Thu Jul 14 8:50 AM, 2005

In response to Jensen......What I meant to ask, and obviously didn't do it very clearly, was this: How do you decide who can afford it versus who can't, and who should receive a discount? You stated that if a cheerleader has great skill, but no money, they should get the discount. If a cheerleader has great skill, and has money, they shouldn't get a discount. Does the single parent who earns $60000.00 a year with one child deserve it because they are a single parent.....or does the couple who makes $80000.00 a year, but has six kids, deserve the discount...they make more money, but obviously their expenses will be higher. Everyone's family is in a different situation financially, and I wondered how it is determined "who can't afford it" and who should get a discount based on that. Sorry if I upset you....it wasn't intended, it was just a question. I agree with everything you said about giving the people who can't afford it the discount....I just don't know how you (not you personally) determine who those people are. As far as the original topic of skill discount, that I have mixed feelings about.....I think if a gym needs to increase their reputation by having winning teams, then yes, it's a business and that might be the way to bring more skill to their teams. But I can see where those who aren't as skilled could feel slighted.

Date: Thu Jul 14 8:55 AM, 2005

Well, I don't know anything about giving a discount for skill.....whether or not it's an appropriate thing to do, but I can say that I really appreciated the different ways that Cheergyms offered discounts this season....it helped out my family ALOT!!

Date: Thu Jul 14 9:02 AM, 2005

Alex: If you are doing your best, on a winning team and that makes you happy, isn't that just as good as anything else in life? Yes, we want our kids to be happy. But if they are trying their hardest at something, and THAT makes them happy, isn't that what we want ultimately? I don't care if my kid is doing 5 different things just to get that "all around" experience. (and since when does hanging out with friends give you life experience? you have school lunch and school functions for that. The gym kids or kids who share her interests are the people who she should be with) If she's happy with something and is doing great at it, then THAT'S what I want for her. I would rather have her succeed at one or two things then be mediocre at lots of things. I want her to know what it is to work hard at something and give it her all. Bosses love that. Teachers love that. Your soul loves that. Who cares if it's at cheer or soccer or drama or math?

If being on a winning team makes you happy and try harder Alex, you go for it. This is competitive cheer. Not the recreational cheer like Bryan talked about. If you're only here for the fun in life, you might just have a tough road ahead cause not everything in life is "fun". But if you work hard for something, there is fun in that. Personal success is always fun. When you achieve something, small or big, it's always fun. So there's nothing wrong with wanting to be on a winning team. No discount is going to give you that. The teams that win alot don't have to give discounts cause the kids will want to be there.

Now, getting the teams that aren't winning so much to lose with tactfulness is the next hurdle. You don't need to bash other gyms to make yours look better. Thank goodness we don't see that on this message board but we do see it on others. (At least I haven't seen any on here.) Pitting one gym against the other just makes your own gym look bad. If you had a bad experience at one gym, then change. It's always tough to see a rival gym win over yours. But how would one fix that?? Give discounts??? nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Step up to the plate, that's how. Or up to the mat in this case.

Good luck Alex. You do what makes you happy.

Date: Thu Jul 14 9:32 AM, 2005

Too many posts... many of which I'd Like to quote!

A Mom wrote:

Bryan,
I don't know you but I have to say I love reading the messages you post on this board. I may not always agree with everything you say but your a delight...

First, Thanks 'A Mom'! I also enjoy reading waht everyone else has to say about these issues.

Interested Mom wrote:

My concern, do the other kids with less skills end up paying more to make up for lost money on giving discounts. The gyms still need to make a profit, so they need to make up the difference somewhere. Are monthly fees or annual fees increased overall to make up for the "lost" money due to discounts?

Interested Mom, the kids not recieving skill discounts are not paying more to make up for lost money. The reason why skill discounts are manageable is becasue the program is making its money off of classes and recreation, summer camps, choreography, etc.

Alex wrote:

personally i wont lie, i just want to win, and be the best. everything else is extra, not that its not good or its not important, i just want to be the best. that is my perspective on it.

I can also vouch for Alex (and I am sure there are many others involved in the agreement of this statement). I want to win. I want to be the best. I know what I've got to do and how hard I need to work to get there. On my way, naturally, I will learn my life lessons.

Trust me, I have been a gymnasts for 11 years and a Cheerleader for 3, and I;ve never set out to learn life lessons. It's been about being the best and I've learnt much from it. It's also taken me to greater lengths.

Level 5 Mom Again wrote:

If being on a winning team makes you happy and try harder Alex, you go for it. This is competitive cheer. Not the recreational cheer like Bryan talked about. If you're only here for the fun in life, you might just have a tough road ahead cause not everything in life is "fun". But if you work hard for something, there is fun in that. Personal success is always fun. When you achieve something, small or big, it's always fun. So there's nothing wrong with wanting to be on a winning team. No discount is going to give you that. The teams that win alot don't have to give discounts cause the kids will want to be there.

.......

Step up to the plate, that's how. Or up to the mat in this case.

This is what I like to see! I completely agree, Level 5 Mom. Good responses, keep the coming!

-Bryan
Motions Senior Maroon

Date: Thu Jul 14 9:40 AM, 2005

I belive in the Skill discount. You should be rewareded for all your hard work. Some people use the excuse that they cant tumble so its not fair. But if they really wanted to learn how to they could. Some ppl blame it on size, sorry girls and boys i have seen some bigger girls whipping out single and double fulls. Afer working hard for my tumbling we should be rewared. We spend extra time in the gym and push yourself beyond the limit all for that one pass. And to familys that cant afford it this does help. It als o pushes there child to work harder.

Date: Thu Jul 14 11:22 AM, 2005

Is it just tumbling skills or do you include everything else that makes up an all-star cheerleader ( jumps, dance, stunting and the ability to work yourself into the ground while enjoying it)? Who decides if the all-star cheerleader gets the discount if you also base it on family finacial situation? Would a gym director really want to have that respondsibility?

I could see where skill discounts could help a team, there have been many girls along the way that have dropped out because it became too much of a burden to their families. But... as a parent that has sacrificed so my daughter could do this sport would I be comfortable to see someone come into the gym and not have to pay as much as my family? As long as my bill doesn't go up to pay for this person and that this person is a real asset to the team, I would have to say yes go for the skill discounts as long as it is not just tumbling. This is a team sport and if you want your child to improve, they need to be surrounded by talented people. If that means there is a few parents paying less then me that it okay.

Helen/ motion's mom

Date: Thu Jul 14 12:04 PM, 2005

I would venture to say that tumbling skills are being discounted in California because we are behind the rest of the country. How many Sr level 5 teams in California have full team doubles? Or even 75% of the team? I think the gym owners may be trying to draw from other resources, like gymnasts, acrobatics, etc, that already have the higher level skills. Anyone agree or disagree with this perspective? Any gym owner out there that would like to address this issue? We'd like to here from you.

Date: Thu Jul 14 12:34 PM, 2005

Helen..

I love your perspective on this. We have seen many girls come into our gym (Motions) so far this season, and not be able to join because of financial problems, and 2 of them were EXTREMELY talented all-around athletes. As a coach OR an athlete, it is VERY HARD to have to see these kids go.
I agree with you that they would have to be all-around athletes. And you're right, as long as everyone elses prices don't go up, why not?? I think that if a kid is going to be a major asset to your program and your teams, then why not make it easier for them to join?

Date: Thu Jul 14 2:13 PM, 2005

Helen....I completely agree with you as well. As long as it doesn't effect the other gym members, I think that discounts of any way, shape, or form are fantastic. I think that all kids should be able to join a sports program such as Cheergyms, including those who need a little extra help financially. Cheer has definitely been a financial hardship for our family, and I know for some, it's completely impossible to afford. I am just so happy with all that my kids have gained from this program in all aspects of their lives.....it helps make the sacrafice more bearable. And as "Interested Mom" stated....if you have to pay a little extra to have your child in a better all around program, it's worth it!!
Sorry to have strayed from the topic a little....just wanted to give my two cents!

Date: Thu Jul 14 2:30 PM, 2005

in a way it is fair giving the skill dicount to the kids who are putting the extra effort into getting their skills in tumbling, but what about the people who have already had their skill for years from gymnastics? should they get the discount too? while one cheerleader is working hard on their tuck or back handspring on the tumble track, the natural tumbler is sitting in the lobby talking away? is that fair?

but then i also agree with helen, every team wants to be as talented as possible, and if getting a discount does bring them to the gym, then why not? but as long as that talent is being pushed just as hard as everyone else in the gym.

-alex-
motions senior maroon

Date: Thu Jul 14 2:35 PM, 2005

I LOVE MY BROTHERS!

..sorry... off topic.. but i had to throw it in..

Date: Thu Jul 14 2:44 PM, 2005

We love you too Amac!! Alex makes a very good point (as usual), some kids (like Cory who's only on year 2 of cheer) have never had a day of gymnastics in their life, so obviously their tumbling skills don't even come close to so many of their teammates. I do know how hard he is working to get them though, and how proud of himself he is when he achieves a goal. Would it be fair for him not to get a discount because of that, obviously there are many different opinions regarding that subject. But also previously stated, these gyms are not recreational, they are competitive (a business) so numbers are important!!