Who is Going to USA Nationals?

lacin123 · Member

RE: Who is Going to USA Nationals?

LoveMyTay · Member

It was a level 6 team. It may have been Pace...

LOL 123 · Member

lacin123 wrote:

cheerforlife08 wrote:

while wanting it can help motivate a team, it doesn't necessarily bring a win. i watched both of pcm and west coast's videos and i am kind of confused as to why west coast won over pcm. the video doesn't show the stunt section so i cannot judge from that. did pcm fall perhaps? but from what i saw, pcm has more tumbling than west coast, better jumps and a better pyramid. pcm had more doubles, more standing tumbling through to fulls, they did jumps to a tuck and their pyramid had more skills in it.
the only reason why i could see pcm losing to west coast was if they dropped a stunt, or west coast's stunt section was beyond amazing, like a triple tick tock or something like that.
anyone have a more detailed explanation of each routine? thanks.

This is what I saw.PCM and West Coast have equal tumbling, however, I would say WCs technique and execution is better.PCM had low and bent leg fulls. Both had 2 running doubles, both had 2 throughs,and 3 throughs. Both had 2 toes to backs.West Coast had onerunning layoutPCM had 2 throughs to tucks and running layouts! Both had 5 stunt groups and tick-tocks.PCMsjumps absolutely were not any better than West Coast.If you look to the back, they were straddle jumps, not toe touches during 2 toes to backs.WC had 5 baskets, PCM 4.Both had clean pyramids. And on a subjective note, WC had a much better dance section.Thats my opinion, but opinions are not going to change the standings.Move on.the score sheets will tell us more. Again, its disrespectful to nullify a placement because you dont happen to agree with it.

lacin123 are you a judge? i can't believe you just broke it all down. your facts are a little skewed, but whatever. I also watched full videos a friend took and first of all, PCM as far as their tumbling goes, it's beautiful. not a lot of bent knees fulls as you suggest. and FYI, they threw 4 doubles in running tumbling day 2, not 2! everyone is entitled to their opinion, including you. but be clear your little breakdown is not accurate or fact it is opinion. i agree the jump to tuck section was cleaner, but JMO PCM had more difficulty especially in stunts and tumbling. i love their dance. i believe eric little choreographed it...love<33

ohhhh. congrats american. how exciting!

lacin123 · Member

LOL 123 wrote:

lacin123 wrote:

cheerforlife08 wrote:

while wanting it can help motivate a team, it doesn't necessarily bring a win. i watched both of pcm and west coast's videos and i am kind of confused as to why west coast won over pcm. the video doesn't show the stunt section so i cannot judge from that. did pcm fall perhaps? but from what i saw, pcm has more tumbling than west coast, better jumps and a better pyramid. pcm had more doubles, more standing tumbling through to fulls, they did jumps to a tuck and their pyramid had more skills in it.
the only reason why i could see pcm losing to west coast was if they dropped a stunt, or west coast's stunt section was beyond amazing, like a triple tick tock or something like that.
anyone have a more detailed explanation of each routine? thanks.

This is what I saw.PCM and West Coast have equal tumbling, however, I would say WCs technique and execution is better.PCM had low and bent leg fulls. Both had 2 running doubles, both had 2 throughs,and 3 throughs. Both had 2 toes to backs.West Coast had onerunning layoutPCM had 2 throughs to tucks and running layouts! Both had 5 stunt groups and tick-tocks.PCMsjumps absolutely were not any better than West Coast.If you look to the back, they were straddle jumps, not toe touches during 2 toes to backs.WC had 5 baskets, PCM 4.Both had clean pyramids. And on a subjective note, WC had a much better dance section.Thats my opinion, but opinions are not going to change the standings.Move on.the score sheets will tell us more. Again, its disrespectful to nullify a placement because you dont happen to agree with it.

lacin123 are you a judge? i can't believe you just broke it all down. your facts are a little skewed, but whatever. I also watched full videos a friend took and first of all, PCM as far as their tumbling goes, it's beautiful. not a lot of bent knees fulls as you suggest. and FYI, they threw 4 doubles in running tumbling day 2, not 2! everyone is entitled to their opinion, including you. but be clear your little breakdown is not accurate or fact it is opinion. i agree the jump to tuck section was cleaner, but JMO PCM had more difficulty especially in stunts and tumbling. i love their dance. i believe eric little choreographed it...love<33
ohhhh. congrats american. how exciting!

First of all, dont put words in my mouth, not once did I state anything as fact. And whats so hard to believe? That I broke it down, or is it that you have to defend an obvious opinion? I stated the way I saw both performances.I did not see beautiful tumbling or 4 doubles. Obviously, you saw things differently.I will never claim to be 100% accurate, however what makes you an accurate source of judgement? All I hear is bitterness. Take a closer lookand this time try not to be so biased.

sillykidsimapro · Veteran Member

you guys no need to get upset this is just the way this competition works, search last years USA nationals thread. possibly the year before that one too. if you don't like the way USA is then do what so many other teams did this year and DON'T GO! lol

cherox · Veteran Member

I will just say it again..... WEST COAST 1ST PLACE! None of you are judges, and lets face it the judges spoke..... it is all bitterness and drama people want to start. A win is a win, like it or not.... West Coast has a way better dance section then PCM. As far as the other stuff too close to call... and honestly I wouldn't try, why? Because I am not a judge! All I know for a fact is West Coast is #1!!!!! And as for the person who asked if I am saying the other teams didn't want it... grow up! Of course everyone wants it, but these kids at West Coast are out for it like crazy... Perhaps you didn't see them in Sacramento? They are on a mission and I root for the underdog... Although at this point they are not the underdog, they are 1st place!

2 Cheer 4 life · Newbie

I have read all your prior posts and gone and watched the videos to two these teams and without question PCM Small Senior 5 was the division winner alone. Since no one on this thread is a certified USASF judge (and maybe not even the USA panel) let's talk about the difficulty alone and where PCM small 5 should have been scored using the NEW VARSITY SCORESHEET: I will strictly just talk about PCM; cause by far should their scores have been higher and been at least the division winner....

They threw 3-4 one to fulls, 2 standing fulls (1 on day 2) and at least 9 two to fulls and one 3 to double. Total: 13-16 in standing. They should have scored 8.5-8.9

Stunts: I love how they cut these out for both teams., but I have seen PCM's stunt section: watch their Cheersport nationals video; its SICK biggrin

! They have 5 half in switch tick tocs to stretches. 4 smoosh and move while the center stunt goes backwards rewind full-up to low lib and switch tics to scorpion and they all meet up to finish scorp, scale COMPLETE double down cradles. That's their first stunt section. Then they throw 6 stunts (4 are two man pretty lady to arabesque double downs). They & American were the only teams to throw 2 stunt sections. Should have scored 8.8-9.0, but scored at least .5 to a full point more on execution to give them 9.5.

Running tumbling: They threw 9 running fulls. 1 whip to full, 1 punch to full, 1 whip full thru to full, and 5 smile

running doubles; they landed all the way around... total 17 pases and should have scored 8.7-9.0 and then .3-.5 more for execution. There were a few bent knees, but look at the combos and the number of doubles. Cleanest tumbling section all weekend at this comp!!!

Jumps: 7 throw pike back tucks, then full team double toe (one touch on day 1, but clean day 2). Judges that is what is considered multiple jumps and combos to back tucks; actually 2 back tucks! Again...8.3-8.5.

Baskets: 3 kick double, then 1 hitch kick and 1 kick double in pyramid. total: 5, plus opening toe touch. Should have scored 8.4-8.8.

Pyramid: 5 level five inversions and 1-2 double downs in the ending hitch pyramid. 8.3-8.5, again then they should receive more execution points on top of that.

Dance is so subjective. Who knows with a dance and how USA would rather see 2 count dance motions of high v and low v blades then a fun transitional dance. so this one is up in the air.

Again, this is based on my opinion and knowing the *NEW* Varsity scoresheet and just an FYI: I looked at PCM scores from NCA Classic and their USA regional and they scored an 89.73 with 2 points in deductions (raw score was a 91.73) and USA regional on the exact same score sheet and same company score a 94.00 with 1 point in deductions (raw score 95.00) in January and then come back a month later have no deductions at nationals with 60% on day 2 and score an overall 89!!!

I do know people and got calls after day 1 and got some news: PCM was leading this competition on day one with an 89. something (with 1 point in deductions; raw 90) then west coast in second and American in third and PCM hit better day 2 and somehow they don't increase their score??? But, two other teams still have bobbles and touches in tumbling moved their scores to a 90+ to beat PCM. Tell me how a team goes from the the lead and ends in third with a better day 2 & 60%??
Come one judging panel?? They either need to retire from judging or LEARN THEY NEW RUBRIC. IMO very bad reputation for USA and I hope PCM makes a stand by not returning for such bad judging!!! PCM both your teams looked amazing this weekend and you should feel proud of both performances and the program you are so lucky to be apart of. I have had the pleasure to judge you and I am sorry that USA can never get it right. I am sure other companies will and on a side note: Congrat's on the At-large. I am just sorry you got it at USA...CAN YOU DECLINE IT??

I am just saying....

I will say congrat's to American for the Paid bid. It would have been hard for PCM to beat American when they are a large coed and look more impressive with more skills being thrown at once. I wish them well!! Love their pyramid!

cherox · Veteran Member

You forgot to wish West Coast well, and say to congrats to them on FIRST PLACE!.....Again another example of bitterness because the team they "wanted" to win didn't....

LOL 123 · Member

THAT is how you break it down!! From a judges mouth. i don't think anyone is bitter. i think people are just sick of the inaccuracy at USA. what's done is done.congrats to west coast!Vegas should be fun. i know my friend will have some videos when they get home..can't wait. please all of you going give us results!

lacin123 · Member

I have read all your prior posts and gone and watched the videos to two these teams and without question PCM Small Senior 5 was the division winner alone. Since no one on this thread is a certified USASF judge (and maybe not even the USA panel) let's talk about the difficulty alone and where PCM small 5 should have been scored using the NEW VARSITY SCORESHEET: I will strictly just talk about PCM; cause by far should their scores have been higher and been at least the division winner...

I am just saying .

You saw a lot of things I didn't. There may have been five, 2-through to fulls the rest were tucks, out of 12! more than half! There were 6 running tumbling passes. Two were double attempts. There were 3 kick doubles and 1 switch-kick attempt, a knee was brought up, but it definitely was not a switch kick.The pikes to tucks? Some where piked. I am in no way trying to insult you or the girls on PCM, I just wanted to point out that you saw "what you wanted to see" not what actually was.

Come one judging panel?? They either need to retire from judging or LEARN THEY NEW RUBRIC. and "(and maybe not even the USA panel)"

Classy!

-- Edited by lacin123 on Monday 15th of February 2010 11:53:22 AM

-- Edited by lacin123 on Monday 15th of February 2010 08:21:22 PM

cheerforlife08 · Veteran Member

lacin123 wrote:

cheerforlife08 wrote:

while wanting it can help motivate a team, it doesn't necessarily bring a win. i watched both of pcm and west coast's videos and i am kind of confused as to why west coast won over pcm. the video doesn't show the stunt section so i cannot judge from that. did pcm fall perhaps? but from what i saw, pcm has more tumbling than west coast, better jumps and a better pyramid. pcm had more doubles, more standing tumbling through to fulls, they did jumps to a tuck and their pyramid had more skills in it.
the only reason why i could see pcm losing to west coast was if they dropped a stunt, or west coast's stunt section was beyond amazing, like a triple tick tock or something like that.
anyone have a more detailed explanation of each routine? thanks.

This is what I saw.PCM and West Coast have equal tumbling, however, I would say WCs technique and execution is better.PCM had low and bent leg fulls. Both had 2 running doubles, both had 2 throughs,and 3 throughs. Both had 2 toes to backs.West Coast had onerunning layoutPCM had 2 throughs to tucks and running layouts! Both had 5 stunt groups and tick-tocks.PCMsjumps absolutely were not any better than West Coast.If you look to the back, they were straddle jumps, not toe touches during 2 toes to backs.WC had 5 baskets, PCM 4.Both had clean pyramids. And on a subjective note, WC had a much better dance section.Thats my opinion, but opinions are not going to change the standings.Move on.the score sheets will tell us more. Again, its disrespectful to nullify a placement because you dont happen to agree with it.

Hey, i am just stating my opinion. after all this is a message board, where people discuss cheer and their opinions. okay, glad we got that cleared up.

just like your opinion is that west coast is better, my opinion is that pcm is better. i am not saying they are bad because west coast did very well. i'm just saying IN MY OPINION, pcm is better. don't bite me because i don't agree with you.

and nullifying a placement? i'm not going to the usa judges and telling them to take away west coast's medals. i'm stating my opinion, and "opinions aren't going to change the standings" right?

so congrats to west coast for winning. i may not agree with it, but they still had a good routine and that should be acknowledged.

lacin123 · Member

cheerforlife08 wrote:

lacin123 wrote:

cheerforlife08 wrote:

while wanting it can help motivate a team, it doesn't necessarily bring a win. i watched both of pcm and west coast's videos and i am kind of confused as to why west coast won over pcm. the video doesn't show the stunt section so i cannot judge from that. did pcm fall perhaps? but from what i saw, pcm has more tumbling than west coast, better jumps and a better pyramid. pcm had more doubles, more standing tumbling through to fulls, they did jumps to a tuck and their pyramid had more skills in it.
the only reason why i could see pcm losing to west coast was if they dropped a stunt, or west coast's stunt section was beyond amazing, like a triple tick tock or something like that.
anyone have a more detailed explanation of each routine? thanks.

This is what I saw.PCM and West Coast have equal tumbling, however, I would say WCs technique and execution is better.PCM had low and bent leg fulls. Both had 2 running doubles, both had 2 throughs,and 3 throughs. Both had 2 toes to backs.West Coast had onerunning layoutPCM had 2 throughs to tucks and running layouts! Both had 5 stunt groups and tick-tocks.PCMsjumps absolutely were not any better than West Coast.If you look to the back, they were straddle jumps, not toe touches during 2 toes to backs.WC had 5 baskets, PCM 4.Both had clean pyramids. And on a subjective note, WC had a much better dance section.Thats my opinion, but opinions are not going to change the standings.Move on.the score sheets will tell us more. Again, its disrespectful to nullify a placement because you dont happen to agree with it.

Hey, i am just stating my opinion. after all this is a message board, where people discuss cheer and their opinions. okay, glad we got that cleared up.
just like your opinion is that west coast is better, my opinion is that pcm is better. i am not saying they are bad because west coast did very well. i'm just saying IN MY OPINION, pcm is better. don't bite me because i don't agree with you.
and nullifying a placement? i'm not going to the usa judges and telling them to take away west coast's medals. i'm stating my opinion, and "opinions aren't going to change the standings" right?
so congrats to west coast for winning. i may not agree with it, but they still had a good routine and that should be acknowledged.

You're absolutely right. We can agree to disagree. I just want to say that all the teams at USA this weekend did an incredible job! The outcome isn't always how we (the spectators) interpret things, however, I want to commend all the girls and coaches for conducting themselves in a very professional manner. Its when we opinionated spectators get on these discussion boards, that the claws come out. I want to ask that we keep this friendly. The results are the results, and none of us on this board will change that. I admit I get over emotional about being told another team should have won over the team my daughter is on. I see how hard these girls work every week and I see the support and dedication of their coaches and parents. So, we should all let them have their moment, they deserve that! Don't take away what they have worked so hard for.

-- Edited by lacin123 on Monday 15th of February 2010 10:57:58 AM

-- Edited by lacin123 on Monday 15th of February 2010 11:56:49 AM

cheerfan2008 · Veteran Member

Wow Drama.. I Thought West Coast Deserved It.. Congratulations To A Program That Is Rising To Dominate The Level 5 Division They Have Only Been In For Only Their Second Year. Instead Of Going Back And Forth With The Attitudes Why Don't You Just Wait Til Worlds?

aliensinamerica · Newbie

-- Edited by aliensinamerica on Monday 15th of February 2010 12:33:15 PM

cherox · Veteran Member

-- Edited by cherox on Monday 15th of February 2010 02:46:03 PM

MILOVE · Member

like I said in my earlier post PCM watered down their routine so they should of done better day two the girl that fell on her jump tuck didn't jump tuck on the second day and the standing full on the left did a tuck and they did have a bobble in their second stunt section the girl second to the end bobbled and barely made her double down to completley disect PCM routine from west coast is not right because Every competition has a different score sheet and every judge has a different opinion it would be interesting to see all the scoresheets and see where PCM lacked on the second day ALSO west coast had a lot more energy I was watching PCM dance and my eyes keep going back to this girl on the right who stood there while dancing she looked like a robot maybe the judges saw that?? cause it was hard for me to miss all those little things add up and can hurt you all in all PCM was a lot more energetic day one maybe cause it was early on Sunday that they weren't really awake yet?? who knows! one more thing USA as we all know is about CLEAN routines west coast may of lacked difficulty but they were clean all their fulla were straight unlike PCM who's fulla were not and their last tumbler didn't complete her double all around I think PCM can dominate this division in Vegas cause it will be a different scoresheet but don't count out west coast judges are really liking them this year I hope they add more difficulty if they do they can do amazing in the next couple competitions

P&R Girls · Veteran Member

cherox wrote:

so there you have it..... lacin123 ( is a mom of a kid on that team) my point exactly.... lets get bitter because my daughters team didnt win, and put down a team that won. Please! Thats all this back and forth is. It is unfortunate you guys have to take that moment away from West Coast and completly uncalled for.

Oh and I'll say it again! FIRST PLACE WEST COAST!!!!

Cherox, if you read Lacin's post correctly you would know that her daughter cheers for WEST COAST. And I agree with you, she is being very bias and bitter. The funny thing is her daughters team won. So why so bitter? No one is taking anything away from West Coast. They had their moment yesterday. They walked away with the win, trophy, medals, and a backpack. Not to mention they were up screaming before their name was even called. (very unsportsmanlike) What about letting PCM have their moment?

This is a perfect venue for those who want to vent about what their views are. If you don't like it then don't read.

And in response to cheerfan2008-we won't have to wait until worlds. Both these teams are competing this weekend in Vegas. Can't wait to see how it all pans out under a different rubric.

p.o.k. · Veteran Member

Wow everyone sure has a lot of free time on their hands. I guess because today is a holiday for many. PCM got a bid they should be very happy. WC got a win and they should be very happy. Let's move on people. I hope this thread is closed soon.

MILOVE · Member

every team screams and gets excited if there name hasn't been called yet and they know they got 1st place even teams like stingrays and california all stars they were just excited there teenage girls I don't think they did it to hurt or be unsportsmanlike to PCM and I'm sure they would of done the same thing if they got first it's an instant reaction everyone has them all they knew at that point is they placed 1st and were excited as for who's who on here nobody knows most of you probably think I'm from west coast your allowed to create as many accounts as possible unlike fiereboards and that's why this is called anonymous Arlene it's easy as we all know to hide your identity some make it more obvious who they are on here and some don't see everyone in Vegas!! only a few more days I know both teams will be working hard these next couple of practices and it's a much bigger competition

ALSO congratulations to Victory Sm Sr on their BID nobody has mentioned anything about them so I'll be the first I hope they can turn heads as well and I know the west coast teams will dominate once again this year at worlds

lacin123 · Member

P&R Girls wrote:

cherox wrote:

so there you have it..... lacin123 ( is a mom of a kid on that team) my point exactly.... lets get bitter because my daughters team didnt win, and put down a team that won. Please! Thats all this back and forth is. It is unfortunate you guys have to take that moment away from West Coast and completly uncalled for.

Oh and I'll say it again! FIRST PLACE WEST COAST!!!!

Cherox, if you read Lacin's post correctly you would know that her daughter cheers for WEST COAST. And I agree with you, she is being very bias and bitter. The funny thing is her daughters team won. So why so bitter? No one is taking anything away from West Coast. They had their moment yesterday. They walked away with the win, trophy, medals, and a backpack. Not to mention they were up screaming before their name was even called. (very unsportsmanlike) What about letting PCM have their moment?
This is a perfect venue for those who want to vent about what their views are. If you don't like it then don't read.

And in response to cheerfan2008-we won't have to wait until worlds. Both these teams are competing this weekend in Vegas. Can't wait to see how it all pans out under a different rubric.

Why the attack? I was defending West Coast against the posts that were made discounting their win. Im not bitter, Im possibly biased, and I have every right to an opinion and to vent on this board as anyone else. Its a little hypocritical of you to say not to read if you dont like. You obviously do not like my posts.
And I agree with you. Competition in Vegas should be interesting to say the least. I do wish all the teams luck, and a safe, clean performance. I'd much rather we be supportive of each other, and let the rest of this drop. I hope everybody has a great trip.

-- Edited by lacin123 on Monday 15th of February 2010 02:50:13 PM

-- Edited by lacin123 on Monday 15th of February 2010 02:56:06 PM