USA Holiday Classic - 12/6 @ UC Davis

CheerXperience · Member

RE: USA Holiday Classic - 12/6 @ UC Davis

CheerSally · Newbie

Cfierce... Rules have changed. Top gun level 4 did the same pyramid last year but with a back flip. What power senior 4 did is completly legal. And I would assume that every stunt they do is legal on all of their teams. I doubt John would put out a product that is illegal. Pushing the limits...yes. Against the rules...no.

Cfierce · Senior Member

Oh okay thanks for clarifying. :) sorry about the post

UWishUKnew · Member

Absolutely! The talent is there.

Im pretty sure that POWER's SR 1 is their JR 1 team?
Or atleast thats what their music said.

Good luck to all the teams going to GSSA. biggrin

J.J · Veteran Member

USACheerleader wrote:

So you are thinking power was the better team to win?

I was there and I can see no reason Power's level 4 team does not win. There stunts where more difficult than all other teams and the percentage of kids doing level 4 tumbling was much higher than any other team. USA judges did a horrible job...

jacketsbaby · Member

royal allstars have a lot of energy in their routines very exciting

cheerguy · Member

Let's be reasonable. Just because a team has a higher level of difficulty doesn't mean they should always come in first. If a team is doing higher level of tumbling and stunting then I myself would expect it to be clean, flawless and without any touchdowns in the tumble pass. Over the years I see time and time again these big teams level 3, 4 & 5 come out to the floor with so much energy and push it so hard they don't realize their formation is off just a little, a lot of their teammates touched down on the tumbling passes, someone is off just a little on the dance or late for the stunt. So just because a team can bring it hard to the mat doesn't mean they bring it clean everytime they have mistakes just like the rest. It's not the name of the organization, the level of the team, difficulty of stunt/tumbling or how many cheerleaders/teams they bring is going to get them first place. It's a better attitude, clean & flawless ruitine that will get you first. Need to stop putting some teams on such a high pedistal were they think it's them all the time. There are other good teams out there who do just as well or better.

-- Edited by cheerguy on Wednesday 9th of December 2009 10:09:25 AM

-- Edited by cheerguy on Wednesday 9th of December 2009 10:09:56 AM

J.J · Veteran Member

cheerguy wrote:

Let's be reasonable. Just because a team has a higher level of difficulty doesn't mean they should always come in first. If a team is doing higher level of tumbling and stunting then I myself would expect it to be clean, flawless and without any touchdowns in the tumble pass. Over the years I see time and time again these big teams level 3, 4 & 5 come out to the floor with so much energy and push it so hard they don't realize their formation is off just a little, a lot of their teammates touched down on the tumbling passes, someone is off just a little on the dance or late for the stunt. So just because a team can bring it hard to the mat doesn't mean they bring it clean everytime they have mistakes just like the rest. It's not the name of the organization, the level of the team, difficulty of stunt/tumbling or how many cheerleaders/teams they bring is going to get them first place. It's a better attitude, clean & flawless ruitine that will get you first. Need to stop putting some teams on such a high pedistal were they think it's them all the time. There are other good teams out there who do just as well or better.

-- Edited by cheerguy on Wednesday 9th of December 2009 10:09:25 AM

-- Edited by cheerguy on Wednesday 9th of December 2009 10:09:56 AM

Where you there?? Powers 4 team dropped one stunt. 95% of their girls did level 4 tumbling, they hit their dance and their pyramid and the jumps an motions. It wasn't that they missed very much, even though they pushed it. It was odd to see the results. According to the new scoring system, you have to have more kids doing level 4 skills to be scored at the level 4 points. Degree of difficulty means a lot. Otherwise lets just go to dance comps... Be realistic, this has nothing to do with putting POWER on a pedistal, it is about scoring the comp correctly. I have no one on this team, I just call what I see.. So we must just disagree about what gets you to the top. For me it is skill

-- Edited by J.J on Wednesday 9th of December 2009 11:59:48 AM

cheerguy · Member

I know it's about scoring comps correctly!! Now a days I can say not one comp is scored the way it should be wether it's USA, Jamz, NCA, or GSSA they all have problems. I was not at this comp, but I've seen them perform at other. I agree the level of dificult means a lot and if they are going to push the difficulty level as I said earlier I am going to expect it to be a awsome ruitine with little problems. You said 95% of the girls did level 4 tumbling, but what I see all the time is not all of them hit it every time.. A lot of touch downs, over rotating out of fulls so they dont just land nicely kinda of fumble a little. I'm not going to knock Power they are good my expectation for teams at this level are very high. I get ready to see a high level team knowing its going to be packed full ofenergy and high level stunts and tumbling. Then when I watch I start noticing all the little things people don't see tumblers missing their landing and formation being off or timing off. As spectators people tend not to look passed the wow factor of the ruitine or the fact that it's power or another big team on the floor so they know nothings going to be wrong with it. Scoring is wrong everywhere not just USA.. been to plenty of comps over the years to see wrong placements...

-- Edited by cheerguy on Wednesday 9th of December 2009 12:16:14 PM

J.J · Veteran Member

I agree the scoring system is frustrating and makes almost no sense to me, this year is supposed to be more consistent. I have been to many comps over the past several years and what gets me is the team that has most of their kids kneel down while 4 kids tumble. What I noticed with Power this past comp is that even though they had a few touch downs, I do notice everything, because my daughter does cheer and I want to see how this effects the score, the majority of their girls did clean tumbling runs, and their dance was qucker and cleaner. So Hopefully the score sheets can be more uniformed in the future.

Fierce Coach · GURU

its USA - hellllooooooo!?!?!?!?!

Simply a cheermom · Veteran Member

Levels were started for a reason. Therefore a level 4 team should be doing level 4 stunts, tumbling, jumps and motions. Simply hitting a clean routine.... Come on now. Then just bring back the basic divisions of Mini, youth, junior and senior. One dropped stunt does not constitute not placing when you have the level of difficulty Power had in that routine. There is no way that in this instance Power should not have placed
1st regardless. If they are using the new scoring system. disbelief

Yes every single orginization has their flaws with scoring. Judges are human. BUT most of the time you can go back after a comp and say, "oh I get it" But this time you just DON"T get it.
Good luck to the Power senior 4 at your future competitions and we who were all there hope you get the recognition for your hard work you deserve

Simply a cheermom · Veteran Member

Fierce Coach wrote:

its USA - hellllooooooo!?!?!?!?!

EXACTLY no Rhyme or reason lol

J.J · Veteran Member

Simply a cheermom wrote:

Levels were started for a reason. Therefore a level 4 team should be doing level 4 stunts, tumbling, jumps and motions. Simply hitting a clean routine.... Come on now. Then just bring back the basic divisions of Mini, youth, junior and senior. One dropped stunt does not constitute not placing when you have the level of difficulty Power had in that routine. There is no way that in this instance Power should not have placed
1st regardless. If they are using the new scoring system.
Yes every single orginization has their flaws with scoring. Judges are human. BUT most of the time you can go back after a comp and say, "oh I get it" But this time you just DON"T get it.
Good luck to the Power senior 4 at your future competitions and we who were all there hope you get the recognition for your hard work you deserve

Thank you, I agree

J.J · Veteran Member

Fierce Coach wrote:

its USA - hellllooooooo!?!?!?!?!

Lol

cheerguy · Member

HELLLLOOOOO!!!! Yes I know it's USA they are the worst and have been for several years, but I've seen it at other comp organizations over the years. I even seen it this year at Jamz.. Fierce I may not be a fan of the type of uniforms you change too, but I am a fan of Fierce you bring something new and original every year. There have been times at Comps I felt you guys had it all the way and then at award time it someone else. Frustrating to say the least.. Judging & Scoring is all over the board. I know the NCAA are working to improve scoring in cheerleading. lets hope all the comp organization will realize we are the ones that keep them alive..

UWishUKnew · Member

I hope everyone protests against going to a USA competition until they finally decide to get things right

Fierce Coach · GURU

Well, the propblem is beyond just USA competitions. California competitions, in general, are hiring USA staff to judge their competitions... the NCA competition this past weekend, USA competitions, the IALC. It's all USA staffed, I'm sorry, but when you are a small 5 team and you do 3 jumps to nothing, you should score much less than a team that threw a 3 toe back tuck. It's the way it should go. If you express up and then proceed to only hit two body positions instead of have two ADVANCED elements and 3 body postitions then you should score lower. USA doesnt see it this way. If you dont do high v's all over your routine and you dont look like you're from 1990, then you're not going to score well. Excuse me, but i call BSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

1CHEERMOM · Veteran Member

Fierce Coach wrote:

Well, the propblem is beyond just USA competitions. California competitions, in general, are hiring USA staff to judge their competitions... the NCA competition this past weekend, USA competitions, the IALC. It's all USA staffed, I'm sorry, but when you are a small 5 team and you do 3 jumps to nothing, you should score much less than a team that threw a 3 toe back tuck. It's the way it should go. If you express up and then proceed to only hit two body positions instead of have two ADVANCED elements and 3 body postitions then you should score lower. USA doesnt see it this way. If you dont do high v's all over your routine and you dont look like you're from 1990, then you're not going to score well. Excuse me, but i call BSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

Just curious...If SO many are SO unhappy with the way USA judges and runs their competitions, WHY do you still go to their compeitions? It is not like there aren't other competitions put on by other competition companies out there to go to. If they start losing enough gyms they will take notice and change the way they do business. After all it is a business right?

MrCommentary · Veteran Member

Not that i'm defending USA but lets be real here people, USA falls under the varsity "umbrella" which means they are following the varsity format which NCA and UCA also follow. Years ago people left these companies to do other competitions (GSSA, Jamfest, American masterpiece, etc.). People can disagree all they want but i've seen similar judging at NCA and UCA. If EVERYONE is supposed to be using this new scoring system then it should indeed be followed. If not then I see a difference between Varsity companies and other ones as well. Every gym has their "favorite" companies and some might actually favor USA. Not too many people probably understand why but it is what it is. Others might favor JAMZ, again it is what it is. I personally like Jamz and Jamfest and the american championships (to name a few). I am not a big fan of GSSA (and yes i know they are a part of jamfest but it's my opinion). Because I don't like GSSA, should I be attacked? No...i just have a different opinion than others do. Bash companies all you want but in the end, gyms choose whoever they want for the same reason...if they think they can win then they'll go! I bet some of these gyms that are upset will be at USA nationals for that last minute Worlds bid!