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flipkidjudge


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RE: Legit gyms
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POSITIVElycheer wrote:

 

cheer1 wrote:

Okay Acedad so let me get this straight. If you are hired by a gym as a coach. They tell you how much you will be paid and which teams and classes you will teach. Times and hours you will work etc. .and If you do private lessons as part of your job and they charge x amount but you only get paid x amount and they dictate the hours and your pay. Is that considered a independent contractor? Cause they 1099 you. or Should they be doing the W2 stuff?

-- Edited by cheer1 on Saturday 1st of August 2009 02:57:14 PM


www.irs.gov
  1. Behavioral: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job?
  2. Financial: Are the business aspects of the workers job controlled by the payer? (these include things like how worker is paid, whether expenses are reimbursed, who provides tools/supplies, etc.)
  3. Type of Relationship: Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation pay, etc.)? Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business?
I know a lot of gyms try to pass of coaches as independent contractors because they do not or can not afford the taxes.  I can see both side of this issue and why certain practices are carried out.

By definition coaches are employees.  The owners DO dictate what the coaches can and can not do.  They also often require them to wear the gyms clothing as a uniform passing them off to the parents as employees.

It is also not an accepted practice for coaches to coach at two different gyms at the same time. The gym they work at is usually there sole source of money for coaching.

Also there is no end to employment most coaches work for the same gym year after year with out any assumption of an end.

I think there is a bunch of coaches that are not covered in areas such as liability and injury.

If this issue was dug into I think a lot of gyms would be in trouble.

 

 


I agree that a lot of gyms would be in trouble. A whole lot of lawsuits could be filed not only by parents but by coaches. BTW I was paid as an Independent Contractor but I always paid the IRS what I owed. However when I partially tore my left bicep I could not get workman's comp either.


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POSITIVElycheer


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As I said most coaches are not covered how they should be.  They help owners build their business but receive little to no benefits.  Odds are good that a coach will get injured at some point during their coaching duties.  Also unemployment is different for independent contractors then for employees. 

This is not a common practice in other sports such as gymnastics.  Why is it in cheer?


-- Edited by POSITIVElycheer on Tuesday 4th of August 2009 04:00:03 PM

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flipkidjudge


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You are right. When I was coaching gymnastics i did not have that issue. Even if you were not the "big name" coach, you still usually were treated decently in these matters. Inever got inhured coaching gymnastics but in coaching cheer I have had a separated shoulder, torn bicep, and a hernia made way worse than what it was - since repaired.

The only thing I can think of is as has already been alluded. Many gyms use coaching talent to build their businesses up but claim poverty when it comes to pay. they want the coach to make the sacrifices to help build the business up. The only thing is when you do that you are at their mercy. Because they can choose to honor their word, or not. More often than not, sadly they do not. And the coach is the one left looking bad when he/she ends up leaving for a place that will treat him/her better-fairer than where they left.

I just finished telling a former parent, if I have to go through all that and still not get treated right, I may as well work for myself. At least i know I will treat myself right...lol.

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ACEDAD


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POSITIVElycheer wrote:

Odds are good that a coach will get injured at some point during their coaching duties.

-- Edited by POSITIVElycheer on Tuesday 4th of August 2009 04:00:03 PM



 I'm curious about your basis for this statement?



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Fierce Coach


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Point blank.... If you claim non profit, you BEST be non profit, with the paperwork ready to show. We are non profit and have the paperwork to prove it. If you want this paperwork, you better get on it. Cause it took us years to get it.

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POSITIVElycheer


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The conditions of cheerleaders compared to gymnast is extremely different both physical readiness and mental preparedness.  The amount of heavy spotting is far less in gymnastics than in cheer.  Cheerleaders tend to be less physically ready to throw skills, and heavier.  This places more wear and tear on a spotter.

How often do you see spotted fulls (either running or standing) in gymnastics compared to cheerleading?  ANY coach who has taught gymnast and cheerleaders will agree that cheerleading requires more wear and tear on their body.

Plus a lot of cheerleading facilities do not have the same amount of equipment to alleviate the amount of spotting a coach does.  i.e. crash mats, pits, tumble tracks, spotting belts, shape mats. etc.


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rhinestonecrown


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Tracy you and I are on the same page!

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xpressjag


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flipkidjudge wrote:

You are right. When I was coaching gymnastics i did not have that issue. Even if you were not the "big name" coach, you still usually were treated decently in these matters. Inever got inhured coaching gymnastics but in coaching cheer I have had a separated shoulder, torn bicep, and a hernia made way worse than what it was - since repaired.

The only thing I can think of is as has already been alluded. Many gyms use coaching talent to build their businesses up but claim poverty when it comes to pay. they want the coach to make the sacrifices to help build the business up. The only thing is when you do that you are at their mercy. Because they can choose to honor their word, or not. More often than not, sadly they do not. And the coach is the one left looking bad when he/she ends up leaving for a place that will treat him/her better-fairer than where they left.

I just finished telling a former parent, if I have to go through all that and still not get treated right, I may as well work for myself. At least i know I will treat myself right...lol.


This entire post is true on so many levels!

 



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flipkidjudge


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POSITIVElycheer wrote:

The conditions of cheerleaders compared to gymnast is extremely different both physical readiness and mental preparedness.  The amount of heavy spotting is far less in gymnastics than in cheer.  Cheerleaders tend to be less physically ready to throw skills, and heavier.  This places more wear and tear on a spotter.


How often do you see spotted fulls (either running or standing) in gymnastics compared to cheerleading?  ANY coach who has taught gymnast and cheerleaders will agree that cheerleading requires more wear and tear on their body.

Plus a lot of cheerleading facilities do not have the same amount of equipment to alleviate the amount of spotting a coach does.  i.e. crash mats, pits, tumble tracks, spotting belts, shape mats. etc.

 


There are other major differences. In gymnastics, skill development, proper progressions, and conditioning - both for the athlete and for the skills to be learned are not dirty words. They are seen as mandatory in order to succeed regardless of what level a gymnast competes on. Coaches know that they won't get rewarded for a gymnast just throwing a skill if it is not performed in the technically right/sound way. As a result they do not encourage a just throw it and we will fix it later approach.

Another big issue - at least with me is spatial awareness. The first lessons no matter what the age usually involves drills on how to fall safely because you know that sooner or later it will happen. Most gymnasts are told to "spot" or see what they are doing at certain points in the skill. They are taught to feel what their body is doing in the air and to become comfortable with it at an early age. Skills are usually taught in stages or segments that must be reasonably perfected before the next stage is added. One whole rotation (15 minutes to 40 minutes) may be nothing but drills!

In cheerleading far too often there is a rush to learn the new skill and to hurry up and put it on the floor. It is not that I do not belive they do not appreaicte the value of drils, or know them, but are often pressed by parents and owners with when is "Becky" going to hurry up and land her ______. Doesn't matter if it is consistent or it looks scary, we need a higher percentage of cheerleaders throwing "X" skill to score well or to have a chance at beating _______________ so you are throwing it. A ROBHSwhip back is said to be a layout on level 4. Or at least it is supposed to be a layout. A full that is slightly cheated (look at the hips and feet as they land the BHS) and thrown straight from the floor in some competitions is judged exactly the same as a full that sets, wraps, and then opens for a landing.

I would rather have a frustrated parent and a ticked off owner than a broken kid. JMO.

-- Edited by flipkidjudge on Saturday 15th of August 2009 04:20:40 AM

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