John Hebert wrote:

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Howdy Everyone

To clear up a few things from this weekend.

1.  Our Jr 5 did not have the penalty that was reversed.  It was our Sr 3 Open team. 

A deduction of 14 points was given to us for doing a two man stunt.  However two mans are legal if you don't cradel from them at this level, which we don't.  After the awards were announced we got our score sheets to find out we were dinged for something that in fact was legal.  I then went to the owner of GSSA to dispute this.  She then took me and the penalty judge to a room so we could discuss the penalty.  After I presented the rule and explained the grip, she called a USASF official to confirm what I was saying.  After the phone call, she confirmed what I said was correct and then reviewed the video to verify.  After it was verified the penalty was removed. 

I then made two suggestions so that this would not happen to any other team in the future.

A.  Have the penalty judge in the warm-up room to check all stunts.  This would allow any coach to know prior to a team performing that something was illegal.

B.  If the penalty judge were to judge during the performance that coaches be notified prior to awards that there was an illegal infraction and that if there is to be any challenges to that call it could be done and corrected prior to awards.

The owner of GSSA has listened and will make one of those changes at the next event in San Jose.


2.  The actual Highest SR division socre went to the Senior International Team from POWER.  I did ask how it was determined for level champions and was told it was all of the judges that picked the winner and not highest score.  This was because there are two pannels of judges and one may score higher than the other, thus overall judges pick.

Cheers
JOHN   

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What rule is that? I have seen many level 3 teams do 2 man stunts and cradle. The backspot/side base just has to their have on the ankle and not be underneath the stunt like a base would be so the intent of the athlete is spotting the head and shoulders.

John Hebert wrote:

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Howdy Everyone

To clear up a few things from this weekend.

1.  Our Jr 5 did not have the penalty that was reversed.  It was our Sr 3 Open team. 

A deduction of 14 points was given to us for doing a two man stunt.  However two mans are legal if you don't cradel from them at this level, which we don't.  After the awards were announced we got our score sheets to find out we were dinged for something that in fact was legal.  I then went to the owner of GSSA to dispute this.  She then took me and the penalty judge to a room so we could discuss the penalty.  After I presented the rule and explained the grip, she called a USASF official to confirm what I was saying.  After the phone call, she confirmed what I said was correct and then reviewed the video to verify.  After it was verified the penalty was removed. 

I then made two suggestions so that this would not happen to any other team in the future.

A.  Have the penalty judge in the warm-up room to check all stunts.  This would allow any coach to know prior to a team performing that something was illegal.

B.  If the penalty judge were to judge during the performance that coaches be notified prior to awards that there was an illegal infraction and that if there is to be any challenges to that call it could be done and corrected prior to awards.

The owner of GSSA has listened and will make one of those changes at the next event in San Jose.


2.  The actual Highest SR division socre went to the Senior International Team from POWER.  I did ask how it was determined for level champions and was told it was all of the judges that picked the winner and not highest score.  This was because there are two pannels of judges and one may score higher than the other, thus overall judges pick.

Cheers
JOHN   

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I did some research on this topic. Here are somethings I found while digging around. This is from the gssa web-site.

Script Breakdown Pts. to be deducted
B= Stunt/Pyramid/Tumbling Bobble 2 pts
F= Stunt/Pyramid/Tumbling Fall 3 pts
FF= Stunt/Pyramid/Toss Fall to the Floor 6 pts
LD= Legality Deduction 14 pts

S=Stunt RT=Running Tumbling
PYR=Pyramid ST=Standing Tumbling       
Toss=Toss

BOBBLE
The following are the ONLY skills that can be deducted as a bobble.
Tumbling A hand or hands touch the floor during a flipping skill. (Back handspring to your knees
will be considered a technique issue and not a deduction.)
Stunt/Pyramid Any skill where the flyers leg is away from the body and the leg drops out of the
skill. (Example: Heel stretch, scorpion, etc. and the leg drops.)
Stunt/Pyramid Any stunt that begins/almost falls and is recovered (Saving a stunt)

FALL
The following are the ONLY skills that can be deducted as a fall.
Tumbling Knees and/or body to the floor during a flipping skill.
Stunt/Pyramid Any stunt that falls from the skill and is caught in a cradle.
Stunt/Pyramid An obvious cradle/dismount from a stunt in an effort to avoid a deduction.

FALL TO THE FLOOR
The following are the ONLY skills that can be deducted as a fall to the floor.
Stunt/Pyramid/Toss Any stunt/pyramid/toss that falls from the skill and is NOT caught in a cradle
and the flyer falls to the floor.
Stunt/Pyramid/Toss Any base(s) fall to the floor during the cradle of the stunt. (Note: In the event
that a single base(s) falls during the release of the cradle and/or trips and fall, it will not be a deduction)

Now IMO

Power had a deduction of 14 points for a Legality Deduction.
It was removed. They erased that after the review of the tape. Power was now left with no deductions. I taped most of this comp myself.
So I thought I would watch it and make my own opinion. Aerials had a couple mistakes, Flyer fell to the floor, another toss went three feet to the left. Deductions are acounted for 6 total. Now when I watch the Power team I see a Flyer all the way to the left doing a scorpion or whatever. Lets her leg down then regathers herself and brings the leg back up. At another point on the left hand side again, a flyer is bobbled and comes
to a craddle so not to hit the floor. During the Tumbling a tumbler coming from the right side of the stage to the left does a round off,back handspring,Back tuck over rotates and falls on the floor rear end and hands touch, and on their pyramid again second from the left flyer falls backwards and a backspot has to push her back up. Those are the most noticable things from both teams. Im sure everyone can pick any routine apart.

  
Acording to the rules all of these SHOULD have been deductions. Yet notice no points for dedcutions taken out.

Here is how the scoring went last weekend. Scores go Tumbling,Building, Dance, Sub-Total, Deductions,  total...
POWERL3 - Small  Senior Open Cheer* 71.5 72.5 81.5 225.5    0     225.5

AerialsAdrenalineL3 - Small  Senior Open Cheer* 71 75.5 78 224.5    6     218.5

CaliforniaCrushL3 - Small  Senior Open Cheer* 70.5 75.5 74.5 220.5    3     217.5

GymstarsEliteL3 - Small  Senior Open Cheer* 67.5 76 72 215.5    0     215.5

Flex All Stars         L3 - Small  Senior Open Cheer* 58.5 62.5 60 181    6     175
*After video review of a penalty assessed, the penalty was reversed and there was post-ceremony recognition of the team effected.
Announced placement will stand.

How can a team with that many mistakes have no deductions? How come they wern't noticed when they got to watch the routine a few times backstage?
Is EVERY coach/owner gonna be givin the same treatment as POWER? Took backstage, phone calls made,video review,scores changed?
Or are you gonna get "Sorry it is what it is now, but you can send in a video of the move in question and we will let you know the ruling before your next comp."?
 I believe GSSA video taped this comp. You can buy it and make your own opinion. I know I made mine after rewatching it.
I hope these two teams meet again. I enjoyed every team, everyone knows about POWER,Cheergyms,NorCal, and all the rest of the major teams. But I think everyone noticed that those Aerials teams are going to be a gym to watch from here on out.

sideliner wrote:

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JustaCheerFan wrote:

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I did some research on this topic. Here are somethings I found while digging around. This is from the gssa web-site.

Script Breakdown Pts. to be deducted
B= Stunt/Pyramid/Tumbling Bobble 2 pts
F= Stunt/Pyramid/Tumbling Fall 3 pts
FF= Stunt/Pyramid/Toss Fall to the Floor 6 pts
LD= Legality Deduction 14 pts

S=Stunt RT=Running Tumbling
PYR=Pyramid ST=Standing Tumbling       
Toss=Toss

BOBBLE
The following are the ONLY skills that can be deducted as a bobble.
Tumbling A hand or hands touch the floor during a flipping skill. (Back handspring to your knees
will be considered a technique issue and not a deduction.)
Stunt/Pyramid Any skill where the flyers leg is away from the body and the leg drops out of the
skill. (Example: Heel stretch, scorpion, etc. and the leg drops.)
Stunt/Pyramid Any stunt that begins/almost falls and is recovered (Saving a stunt)

FALL
The following are the ONLY skills that can be deducted as a fall.
Tumbling Knees and/or body to the floor during a flipping skill.
Stunt/Pyramid Any stunt that falls from the skill and is caught in a cradle.
Stunt/Pyramid An obvious cradle/dismount from a stunt in an effort to avoid a deduction.

FALL TO THE FLOOR
The following are the ONLY skills that can be deducted as a fall to the floor.
Stunt/Pyramid/Toss Any stunt/pyramid/toss that falls from the skill and is NOT caught in a cradle
and the flyer falls to the floor.
Stunt/Pyramid/Toss Any base(s) fall to the floor during the cradle of the stunt. (Note: In the event
that a single base(s) falls during the release of the cradle and/or trips and fall, it will not be a deduction)

Now IMO

Power had a deduction of 14 points for a Legality Deduction.
It was removed. They erased that after the review of the tape. Power was now left with no deductions. I taped most of this comp myself.
So I thought I would watch it and make my own opinion. Aerials had a couple mistakes, Flyer fell to the floor, another toss went three feet to the left. Deductions are acounted for 6 total. Now when I watch the Power team I see a Flyer all the way to the left doing a scorpion or whatever. Lets her leg down then regathers herself and brings the leg back up. At another point on the left hand side again, a flyer is bobbled and comes
to a craddle so not to hit the floor. During the Tumbling a tumbler coming from the right side of the stage to the left does a round off,back handspring,Back tuck over rotates and falls on the floor rear end and hands touch, and on their pyramid again second from the left flyer falls backwards and a backspot has to push her back up. Those are the most noticable things from both teams. Im sure everyone can pick any routine apart.

  
Acording to the rules all of these SHOULD have been deductions. Yet notice no points for dedcutions taken out.

Here is how the scoring went last weekend. Scores go Tumbling,Building, Dance, Sub-Total, Deductions,  total...
POWERL3 - Small  Senior Open Cheer* 71.5 72.5 81.5 225.5    0     225.5

AerialsAdrenalineL3 - Small  Senior Open Cheer* 71 75.5 78 224.5    6     218.5

CaliforniaCrushL3 - Small  Senior Open Cheer* 70.5 75.5 74.5 220.5    3     217.5

GymstarsEliteL3 - Small  Senior Open Cheer* 67.5 76 72 215.5    0     215.5

Flex All Stars         L3 - Small  Senior Open Cheer* 58.5 62.5 60 181    6     175
*After video review of a penalty assessed, the penalty was reversed and there was post-ceremony recognition of the team effected.
Announced placement will stand.

How can a team with that many mistakes have no deductions? How come they wern't noticed when they got to watch the routine a few times backstage?
Is EVERY coach/owner gonna be givin the same treatment as POWER? Took backstage, phone calls made,video review,scores changed?
Or are you gonna get "Sorry it is what it is now, but you can send in a video of the move in question and we will let you know the ruling before your next comp."?
 I believe GSSA video taped this comp. You can buy it and make your own opinion. I know I made mine after rewatching it.
I hope these two teams meet again. I enjoyed every team, everyone knows about POWER,Cheergyms,NorCal, and all the rest of the major teams. But I think everyone noticed that those Aerials teams are going to be a gym to watch from here on out.

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Look, thats not POWER's fault that the judges did not catch that. It doesnt mean that you should go bash POWER.

What "treatment" does POWER get that the other teams dont? absolutely NONE. they are athletes and work very very hard and that credit goes to the coaches because they are brilliant at what they do. I admire POWER because thats a team that has the most teamwork, and it shows.

Just because they had one bad weekend, doesnt mean that we should put them down because they finally got thier "day". 

And no, your not going to get a "Sorry it is what it is now, but you can send in a video of the move in question and we will let you know the ruling before your next comp." because if your program wanted your team to get recognized for a win or penalty (that really wasnt a penalty) or whatever, they would. im telling you, its all in the staffing.

And in kindergarten, did we not learn to keep our "opinions" to ourselves?

I am glad that you made your "opinion", really i am, because we all have our own even though its more POLITE to keep it to yourself (ESPECIALLY when it comes to bashing teams!)
Anyways, i think that all athletes at this very competition did rather swell. Not everyone had thier game faces on, but they still have the rest of the competitive season. and btw..congrats to POWER and Aerials.

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