Its Not Right

cheer4fun · Veteran Member

Its Not Right

Simply a cheermom · Veteran Member

I have to agree with you on this one. I would not let my daughter paricipate on her hs team if they told her she couldn't do all stars as well. That is totally up to the parents and the child. If a cheerleader can committ to both, then why not let them do both. My daughter cheers for both her HS team and an all star team and it has been beneficial to her from both ends. Not only that, but being in both has strengthen her cheer skills and it has also helped her manage time, etc.

This is my opinion and my opinion only, but this can't be morally or legally right. How can a high school cheer coach tell a cheerleader she cant cheer for all stars as well. As mentioned, kids that play baseball, soccer, basketball, etc... can also do those sports outside of school.

I think that parents need to get a back bone and stop allowing this. Honestly, just call an attorney and ask around. Have an attorney call your school district and ask why this rule is implemented for the high school cheer program and not for other programs in the school.

All it takes is one person to take a stand and get a backbone with the school and it will change.

STAND UP FOR WHAT YOU KNOW IS RIGHT AND BELIEVE IS RIGHT. IT IS BETTER TO STAND UP FOR SOMETHING YOU BELIEVE IN, THAN TO SUBMIT TO SOMETHING YOU DONT.

I KNOW VACAVILLE HIGH SCHOOL HAS THIS POLICY AND I HOPE THAT THOSE MOMS STAND UP TO THEIR CONTROL HAPPY COACH AND MAKE SOME CHANGES. THEY HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF TALENT IN THAT AREA AND HER PROGRAM WOULD GROW. SHE NEEDS A REALITY CHECK AND REAL SOON.

CALL AN ATTORNEY AND SEE WHAT THEY SAY IT WON'T HURT TO KNOW YOUR RIGHTS

beofgoodcheer · Veteran Member

I think some of them prohibit it because of scheduling reasons. Conflicts with practices, games, competitions, etc. In ideal situations, you have an all-star program and high school program that are related, such as coaches who run the same school and all-star program. Aside from this, schedules can be a real nightmare and I think most schools would rather not deal with it rather than work out a compromise. On the all-star side, those gyms usually will give lenience to the high school cheerleaders so that they can attend games, practices and competitions, but that's hard to find a high school program that would do likewise to accommodate practices and competitions.

NOSEBAG · Senior Member

My opinion is that what they are doing is possibly illegal and you need to contact your school district and ask to speak with your director of secondary education and tell him/her that unless they can show you that they are on the side of the law then they may want to reconsider their silly rules or you will be obtaining an attorney.

VegasCheerParent · Veteran Member

We have had this issue here as well...it is such a double standard too! Athletes from other sports are encouraged to be on other teams outside of school as long as it doesn't interfere with school events!
Some of the very best cheerleaders in my daughter's school (including her!) sit up in the stands during an event with their level 5 skills to wow a crowd and they aren't even allowed to try out for the school squad. Girls with years of all star competition experience being denied because of an unfair rule.
We were given this explanation- "I don't like having girls injured from their all star club not being able to participate in events because of the LOUSY coaching they get". So if they were hurt from their soccer team, it would be ok?? C'mon!
Gyms should get together and sue. Parents have to choose either school or all stars for their kids here. That ultimately hurts business for the gyms.
In the meantime, my daughter will continue to roll her eyes and shake her head at what is transpiring on the sidelines during games.

-- Edited by VegasCheerParent at 14:06, 2008-12-05

Simply a cheermom · Veteran Member

I guess Im just passionate about parents maintaing control with decisions that concern personal choices for their children. The school has a certain amout of rights within the school. Such as grade point averages, missing school and disciplinary issues. Those all are the school's rights to if an athlete can participate in a school activity.
But programs outside of school and those decisions remain with the parents.
It really is not that hard to do both. If the family and child can handle it.
Think about it, if the cheerleader participates in a all star program within the city/school district. It is easy to accomomadte and schedule things.
All star gyms across the state are working within the local schools schedules. You make it work.
I am just not convinced that this is legal in anyway. I'm not saying sue the school, unless you just have been fighting this battle for a long time. But I do say contact a lawyer and the school district and make the school district answer your questions to why.
The squueky wheel gets the oil.
I teach my children to stand up for what they believe in. Don't just accept things because someone says it is so!
Maybe the coach just needs to be shook back into reality.

-- Edited by Simply a cheermom at 14:13, 2008-12-05

cheer4fun · Veteran Member

Thank you everyone for your support and insight into this situation. We are actually in the process of talking with an attorney just to see what the logistics of this situation are, and we are going to talk with the school district. See the school had the children sign a contract saying that if they were caught doing all star cheer they would be removed from the team. This just isn't far, but for some reason they have these parents brain washed that they can do it.

I feel the need to stand up not only for the athletes that are losing the oppurtunity to represent their school as well as show off all the talent and ability they have gained from all stars, but all the other local all star clubs that are losing team members due to this situation. The economy is tough right now, and losing numbers becasue children are being denied to participate in their sport as well as their school is ridiculous. We all need to support each other.

CheerTyme Owner · Senior Member

I KNOW VACAVILLE HIGH SCHOOL HAS THIS POLICY AND I HOPE THAT THOSE MOMS STAND UP TO THEIR CONTROL HAPPY COACH AND MAKE SOME CHANGES. THEY HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF TALENT IN THAT AREA AND HER PROGRAM WOULD GROW. SHE NEEDS A REALITY CHECK AND REAL SOON.

This makes me so sad/angry. I wish those parents would talk with an attorney or even the school board. It is unfair. Other HS sports encourage their members to do "club" sports. While I was in HS I was encouraged to do "club" softball and the school had no say in my decision to do it or not. How can a school allow one sport the freedom to participate in other outside of school sports and allow the cheer coach from the same school to deny the cheer team members the same rights. I feel bad for the kids!!!

cheerforlife08 · Veteran Member

my highschool does this too. its so unfair. a school activity shouldn't have control over what you do outside of school, especially if its something that can you excel in your sport.

Simply a cheermom · Veteran Member

So what should parent's do? Let's give some productive suggestions so that we can make a difference. I know how passionate I am about parental rights, as well as freedom of choice and rights for children who are people too. I am also an advocate for equal treatment for cheerleaders.
I don't know why, but this is really upseting to me... I know at our gym, our owner goes out of his way to make sure the hs cheerleaders at his gym is sensitive to the girls in his program about their hs activities. From the beginning of the season compromises are made with guidelines to what is acceptable for his program to be able to do both. He NEVER says don't do both, but puts out all the positive things from being on both. As well as what complications can arise. Then it is left up to the PARENTS and the CHILD. We haven't had one problem this season with cheerleaders being on their hs team and all stars. We have 6 girls on our senior squad who do high school cheer too. There are consequenses for missing practice etc. But again IT IS THE CHOICE OF THE PARENT AND CHILD.
So as parents we weigh the pros and cons and the WE decide if it will fit our family. And that is how it is handled at our gym and through our high school program.

I love that my daughter can still be part of her school activities, which is very important growing up. Cheering on the sidelines of the football games and basketball games. Maintaining an awesome connection with her friends at school.
BUT still is allowed to cheer all stars, where she gets to use her talents in a competitive way. having the oppurtunity to travel and make new friends and build new relationships with other teens outside her school inner circle.

LET'S FIGURE OUT A WAY TO MAKE THIS OPPURTUNITY AN OPTION FOR ALL CHEERLEADERS. Again, there will be tough things to sort out to do both. BUT IT ULTIMATLEY SHOULD BE THE DECISION OF THE CHEERLEADER AND THE PARENT. NOT THE HIGHSCHOOL CHEER COACH

-- Edited by Simply a cheermom at 11:33, 2008-12-06

-- Edited by Simply a cheermom at 11:34, 2008-12-06

Proudpapa · Senior Member

I am in total agreement with every statement which has been made with regards to this topic. All my daughter wants to do is cheer, if she could she would cheer 7 days a week 24 hours a day. I dont know who gave the authority to the high schools to dictate what my child can do on her off time, I always thought that was our decision as parents. The schools and the coaches should be confronted with the hypocracy which exist within their programs. We have a number of schools in our area which have held the girls to this policy and it should end once and for all. Let the girls cheer, life is too short to deny such a simple, safe and wholesome pleasure.

If there are any High School Administrators or High School Cheer Coaches who may read these posting and have any influence on the decisions that are made in your school I would ask that you abolish this policy; Once and for all end it, LET THEM CHEER!!!

Fierce Coach · GURU

Just get a lawyer and/or legal advice and they will tell you that there is no law written anywhere that states that you can only cheer for high school cheer. Just make sure you read over any packet you are given at high school cheer tryouts. Know what you're signing!

oldcheermom · Senior Member

I'm going to be in the minority here. I can totally understand both the high school and all star coaches not wanting their girls to do both teams. Why should either side have to accommodate anyone, no matter what other type of program someone wants to do at the same time, whether it's cheer or volleyball or theater or whatever? I have seen it become an issue for both programs when it was allowed, even when there was a promise there would be no conflict.

A high school cheerleader has a game, so she misses all star practice - is that fair to her all star teammates? I've seen high school cheerleaders miss a huge championship game because the all star coach wouldn't let them miss practice - is that fair to their high school teammates? And what a disappointment to miss the big game!

When it wasn't allowed, I've seen girls go behind their coaches back and do both teams - then right before a really big competition there's a conflict and a girl has to quit one of the teams. Is that fair to her teammates or coaches? Is that fair to the girl who did not make the team originally because this person did?

Sometimes we just have to make a choice and can't do it all.

ACEDAD · GURU

I've seen this in both states where we've lived, so my daughter never cheered for her high school.

One thought: in states where cheerleading IS considered a sport, it is against the rules to also cheer all star during whatever is the high school cheer "season". That's exactly the same treatment as basketball, baseball, soccer, etc.

Another example of being careful what you wish for.

Simply a cheermom · Veteran Member

Oldcheer mom I see your point, but I also think it should be left up to the parent and the children to decide. Now there should be consequences for missing obligations to either. Maybe the coaches make strict rules and consequences and follow through with it. Again it should be the choice of the parent and cheerleader.
Now ace dad, I have to agree if they considered cheerleading a sport, then they wouldn't and shouldn't be allowed to participate on another team... but in our state that is not the case. And the cheer coach from Vacaville High school is the only school in the district that doesn't allow cheerleaders to cheer for all stars. If this is the rule, it should be a rule for the entire school district that is followed through out the district. Girls have left the school to cheer at the school across town because of this reason. And the school is losing a bunch of talented kids.
This same school has put cheerleaders back on the squad who are kicked off every year for grades and disciplinary problems. Now they let these kids back on the squad, who continually let the the squad down because of grades, discipline problems, etc. Year after year, but won't let girls who are good students, dedicated to their sport cheer for all stars because they are afraid of the conflict and committment level.
WHAT MESSAGE IS THIS ADVISOR AND SCHOOL ADMINISTRATION SENDING??
I am just not convinced that this program is doing this for reason the advisor states. Otherwise she would not continue to put the same girls on that have to be kicked off year after year becuase they have failed classes, quit in the middle of the season or have gotten in trouble at school.
IF SHE IS GOING TO STAND FOR SOMETHING THEN SHE NEEDS TO FOLLOW THROUGH WITH IT IN ALL AREAS

blahblahblah · Member

I completely agree that the control some high schools want is ridiculous! My daughter's hs is one of them. I went through all of the channels to find out if this was in fact a "school" rule or the cheer director's choice. It amazed me to find out that it was the cheer director's. And the school's athletic director was on my side and said he would make sure that the cheer director was aware that she would have to allow an allstar if it did not affect the team in a negative way. As soon as this was brought to the cheer dir. She changed the rules and right after she changed the rules she changed the cheer practice times. And to cover her bases she made them from 3 to 6 (yes 3 hrs) on some days and 4 to 7 on others 4 days a week and when not at practice you had games. You would think that this would be an incredible team. Well if you thought that you would be completely wrong. This hs has an air that would make you think they were in the ranks of cheer athletics. They are actually well known in the area as quite possibly the most embarrassing. My daughter did the team one year and not allstar and was embarrased. She had fun but it was because of the girls and their activities off the sidelines. What makes this worse in my opinion is that they have some very talented girls and they don't look like they have talent. Yes that means they hire coaches that have no real experience other than youth or their hs experience. Or in one case a mother that has been a youth coach and when her daughter moved to hs she moved with her. What happened to hiring great coaches and not who is kissing your behind or your friend. I don't think a lawyer will help (in my opinion). But maybe if these directors really step back and look at the big picture they would not let their egos in the way. I forgot to mention that our director has issues with area gym owners and let's it be well known! My daughter ever got some hassle when at a cheer camp she went up to other girls that she knew from "rival" teams. I'm proud of her that she didn't let that bother her and is still close friends with all of them! Including the girls and coaches that gave her crap for going to the "rival" side. Our. Kids will all grow fron their experiences!

LadyW · Senior Member

wow -- well, I am kind of see both sides here. So DD is on Jr High cheer (I know, not hs.. but same principal), and doing all-star dance. when DD went to the advisor and coaches and expressed her desire to be on the team we had a tent comp schedule (based on the prior year) and her practice schedule. If they could work together great -- otherwise, she was going to stay with All-star. They wanted her for he prior cheer experience and some of her tumbling. Its been tough -- on Wed (she has cheer from 2~4, a 1 hour break and then dance practice from 5 ~8:00 and it looked like we might miss 1 tournament and 1 comp (her school only does 3 little comps) because, sorry --- NDA (NCA for you cheer people) in dallas is a little more important than a magic moutain comp-- but things have worked out -- they changed the M Mountain to Knotts on a different day (in MAY -- good grief -but hey it works) and so far extra dance practices have not effected extra cheer practices. When we are at a game and an extra dance practice has been called, I simple state, we have a game, we can be there as soon as its over and the dance coach has been okay with it and adjusting where needed.

I think it can be a schedule nightmare if the HS is doing a lot (6+) comps and trying to coordinate that with 8+ all star comps.
Now is the kid is on "game squad only" than I see no issue/problem with them being on all-star.

-- Edited by LadyW at 07:43, 2008-12-09

MissCongeniality · Veteran Member

I see BOTH sides of this issue.

Many sports are able to work it out so that there are little to no conflicts between the school sport and the select side/all star/whatever out side of school sport. I know with swimming you have to be unattached during the High School season (from your year round team) so the coaches usually work out when the athlete can go unattached so that they can best benefit their HS but also benefit their other team at important comps.

On the flip side... I see that those girls who are doing both cheer teams often end up missing practice because of an obligation to the other squad. Even just one or two practices leaves the girls on the team (where they are missing) without a valuable member of their squad and unable to do their routine full out. Cheer is a team sport and missing just one member leaves the routine with a hole in it. If the missing member is a base, a flyer can't go up. Most other sports have alternates who can fill in, cheer does not (at least in most gyms)

viv · Veteran Member

NOSEBAG wrote:

My opinion is that what they are doing is possibly illegal and you need to contact your school district and ask to speak with your director of secondary education and tell him/her that unless they can show you that they are on the side of the law then they may want to reconsider their silly rules or you will be obtaining an attorney.

Good luck with that one! Then the coach gets notified and your daughter doesnt make the squad anyway or she is treated badly all year! Sad the politics of High School Cheer.

Fun2Cheer · Veteran Member

The real issue comes down to commitment. A high school program does not and should not have to put up with multiple absences due to any outside activity whether its all star cheer or club soccer. If both the school and the allstar program can come to an agreement then great but it not then a choice has to be made. There is nothing illegal with a coach demanding participation and commitment from its team members and if they can't do it then they shouldn't be on the team.