American Grand

Fierce Coach · GURU

RE: American Grand

Pixie · Senior Member

There are people that have beaten me over the head to convince me that a large team has an advantage over a small team, that coed will tend to score higher than all girl. If that is true, then all the bids will always go to teams in those same categories.

I like the idea of giving bids to first place in the highest scoring divisions, but also don't like the thought of 375 getting a bid over 391. I think that they ought to impose a minimum score in order to receive a bid.

Fierce Coach · GURU

Agreed with the minimum score thing.

beofgoodcheer · Veteran Member

From my understanding, each organization can determine how they award bids. Some go strictly on highest score, while others don't necessarily go by that criteria, i.e. they can award a bid to whatever teams they want. Usually this will be to the highest scoring teams as they want the best teams representing their organization at Worlds, but they could also award a team they feel has a better competitive advantage. For instance, the unlimited co-ed division is probably the most difficult division at Worlds. A co-ed team might have the highest score at a regional competition, but there's a small senior team at this same competition with a slightly lower score that this organization feels would better represent them at Worlds and have a better chance of placing at Worlds than the co-ed team. They could award the lower scoring team based on competitive advantage rather than score. I think they do have that option to award bids in this way.

Crazy Cheer Mama · Member

Fierce Coach wrote:

This is what I think:

Let us pretend that I am the owner of a large competition company and I contract out 3 paid bids and 6 at large. At my specific competition where I am giving away these bids, junior- senior, coed or not coed, small or large, international or not... I am giving out my paid to the 3 top scoring teams NO MATTER WHAT. My 6 at large I will give out to the next 6 highest scoring teams. I think that if a small all girl 5 team gets a 391.5, and ended up in third place, that they should not get beat out by a small international team who scored a 388.5. I think it should just go off of score and that's it. They need to figure out a way to make Worlds smaller.

ABSOLUTELY 100% AGREED!

My thoughts exactly Fierce Coach, very well put. Weather teams are small, large, coed, international, Jr, Sr... etc. bids and at-large bids should be AWARDED, not given just because of the team scoring the highest in their perspective division. Worlds is the "Cream of the Crop" in cheerleading, our (the all star cheerleading world) "Super Bowl" if you will. The competition should be the best of the best.

As for the Large teams having an advantage over the small teams, I have a perspective on both. Large teams DO have an advantage over the small teams being that they can put up more stunts and larger pyramids, thus being said, more flyers in the air and bigger pyramids are more impressive to watch. On the other hand, they also have more room for mistakes and drops. BUT, if a small team drops its more noticeable vs if a large team drops. The same holds true with tumbling. You can "hide" someone in the back easier on a large team vs. a small. Small teams can max out their stunting with 6 flyers/stunts (all 2-man's). I have seen several small teams do this before, and it's very impressive. While their pyramids may be smaller, if you have great choreography, and utilize every member on the team you can pull it off.

I have been to several competitions that didn't separate large & small teams from each other, and the small teams have won, and have held their own. My kids have cheered for years, I have seen it all. Perfect example. Last year, at a competition in San Diego (America's Best), they put Pacific Coast Cheer large coed 4, against Fierce small all-girl 4; reason being that neither team would have had any competition otherwise. Not only were small and large not separated, but the coed and all girl were not either. Unfair? Some would say of yes, of course... but, there are a lot of us who figure that at least they had competition that day. I will say this much though; Fierce small all girl held their own, and I was impressed. When it came to the awards, you could feel the tension in the room. Before the Announcer read off the placements and scores he said that the two scores were unbelievably close and he himself couldn't believe how close they were.

Pacific Coast won by 3/10ths of a point. THAT is impressive (IMO).

Supposedly one of the Fierce girls stepped over the white boundary line, and they had a deduction for it. THIS is a perfect example of how every little thing counts. In this particular situation it didn't matter weather or not the team was large, small, coed or not.

With all this said, no, I don't disbelief

agree with the small and large being combined, but if it means that the team (s) will have competition (had they not combined the division) then, Im all for it. This is why it's called a competition. As far as coed and all girl being combined, Im not to keen on that either, but again if this is a last resort, then bring it! smile

Good luck to all teams competing all over the place this weekend. aww

VegasCheerParent · Veteran Member

Yeah, the Lion squad routine changed quite a bit last season, and I would expect the same this year...injury is a plague for the squad- even at worlds one of the kids had a broken foot and being a flyer, it was quite a challenge to do single leg stunts with that. PAC did not have a good alternate for that flyer either- just wouldn't hit. Always some darn thing.
With a coach who was a long time "American" allstar herself, she is a very driven person who thinks outside of the box. PAC was lucky to hire this person.

IAMCHEERLEDGEND · Member

well they dont just pick bids on oh hits they pick on recommended difficult of transitions squad tumbling they go in the back a rewatch the videos then vote on a winner. thats why they take score in pencil ever seen eraser narks on your score sheets. lol nobody has an advantage its pretty fair.

IAMCHEERLEDGEND · Member

sorry pick bids on score alone

CaliCheerWatcher · GURU

5 Days!!!!!
Quick question? Is cheerforce alcartaz really competing non worlds? I know they have crossovers but so does half of the other teams competing in the worlds divisions lol I say join the club.

cheermommy · Member

CaliCheerWatcher wrote:

5 Days!!!!!
Quick question? Is cheerforce alcartaz really competing non worlds? I know they have crossovers but so does half of the other teams competing in the worlds divisions lol I say join the club.

I thought you weren't allowed to compete in the worlds division if you had crossovers between the worlds divisions - am i just confused?

GAVEITALLUP4CHEER · Veteran Member

You can get a bid and then replace the crossovers, as long as they took the floor during the comp you receive the bid from, so you can put a girl from a lower team on to replace any crossovers

Fierce Coach · GURU

Theres' only a certain number though

CaliCheerWatcher · GURU

Fierce Coach wrote:

Theres' only a certain number though

Yep, you are allowed up to 10 substitutes.

CaliCheerWatcher · GURU

4 Days!!!!!!!

So, the competition is getting close. Everyone has competed now. So lets make some predictions. Comments arent needed but if you really want too try not to be rude.

Junior 5
AZ Power Xtreme
Cheerz Infinity
SCV All-Stars
Pride Athletics Jaguars
Caifornia AS
OC All Stars

Junior Coed 5
California AS
Desert Storm Elite

Small Senior 5
CheerForce Diamondz
Victory Cheer
Magic All-Stars
OC All-Stars
Fierce
AZ Power Xtreme
California AS
Cheerz Odyssey
Pride Athletics Lions

Large Senior 5
Arizona Heat Elite
Desert Storm Elite

Small Sr Ltd Coed 5
CheerForce Rockiez
AZ Power Xtreme
California AS
Stealth

Sr Unlimited Coed 5
California AS

Intl Open Coed 5
CheerForce Outlawz
Pride Athletics Jungle Cats

I couldnt decide some so i just chose who i think it would be between or who i thought would be in the top 3.

Bids

Junior 5
AZ Power Xtreme
Cheerz Infinity
SCV All-Stars
Pride Athletics Jaguars
California AS
OC All Stars

Junior Coed 5

California AS
Desert Storm Elite

Small Senior 5
CheerForce Diamondz
Victory Cheer
Magic AS
OC All-Stars
Fierce
AZ Power Xtreme
California AS
Cheerz Odyssey
Pride Athletics Lions

Large Senior 5
Arizona Heat Elite
Desert Storm Elite

Small Sr Ltd Coed 5
CheerForce Rockiez
AZ Power Xtreme
California AS

Large Sr Ltd Coed 5
Stealth

Sr Unlimited Coed 5
California AS

Intl Open Coed 5
CheerForce Outlawz
Pride Athletics Jungle Cats

Edited My Predictions Because The Schedule Was Updated And Large Limited C0ed Was Combined With Small Limited Coed! And Because I Made A Mistake! smile

-- Edited by CaliCheerWatcher at 00:14, 2008-12-16

cheermommy · Member

Is Pride Athletics Junior 5 good?

CaliCheerWatcher · GURU

So i was looking at the schedule and both of the large senior 5 teams are gone. Did they drop out or can i just not see? lol

http://ac.varsity.com/docs/Grand-Sat.pdf

-- Edited by CaliCheerWatcher at 01:33, 2008-12-16

cheerislife · Veteran Member

just found out the highest temp its gonna get in vegas is 40!

hahaha just thought i should share that with u guys =)

Nelson · Senior Member

New Bids Distribution for American Grand:

Small Senior All Girl (9 teams)
Large Senior All Girl (2 teams)
1 Paid Bid and 3 At Large Bids
2 division winners will receive bids (with the high score getting the paid) and the 2 2nd place finishers will receive the bid.

Limited Coed (4 teams)
Unlimited Coed (1 team)
1 Paid Bid and 1 At Large Bid
2 division winners will receive the bid unless the Unlimited Coed team fails to acheive a minimum score. Paid bid goes to the highest score.

Junior All Girl (6 teams)
2 At Large Bids
Bids awarded to First and Second place teams.

Junior Coed (2 teams)
1 At Large Bid
Bid awarded to division champion.

Open coed (3 teams)
1 At Large Bid
Bid awarded to division champion.

Predict away!

oldcheermember · Veteran Member

Junior 5
1. Caifornia AS
2. AZ Power Xtreme
3. Pride Athletics Jaguars
4. SCV All-Stars
5. OC All Stars
6. Cheerz Infinity

Junior Coed 5
1. California AS
2. Desert Storm Elite

Small Senior 5
1. California AS
2. CheerForce Diamondz
3. Fierce
4. Victory Cheer
5. AZ Power Xtreme
6. Magic All-Stars
7. Pride Athletics Lions
8. OC All-Stars
9. Cheerz Odyssey

Large Senior 5
1. Desert Storm Elite
2. Arizona Heat Elite

Small Sr Ltd Coed 5
1. California AS
2. CheerForce Rockiez
3. AZ Power Xtreme
4. Stealth

Sr Unlimited Coed 5
1. California AS

Intl Open Coed 5
1. CheerForce Outlawz
2. Pride Athletics Jungle Cats

just my predictions

CaliCheerWatcher · GURU

Nelson wrote:

New Bids Distribution for American Grand:

Small Senior All Girl (9 teams)
Large Senior All Girl (2 teams)
1 Paid Bid and 3 At Large Bids
2 division winners will receive bids (with the high score getting the paid) and the 2 2nd place finishers will receive the bid.

Limited Coed (4 teams)
Unlimited Coed (1 team)
1 Paid Bid and 1 At Large Bid
2 division winners will receive the bid unless the Unlimited Coed team fails to acheive a minimum score. Paid bid goes to the highest score.

Junior All Girl (6 teams)
2 At Large Bids
Bids awarded to First and Second place teams.

Junior Coed (2 teams)
1 At Large Bid
Bid awarded to division champion.

Open coed (3 teams)
1 At Large Bid
Bid awarded to division champion.

Predict away!

I dont know about you guys but i think the whole bid break down is pretty LAME! I think it should go by scores