can fliers and bases be rotated midseason

Date: Tue Nov 4 9:30 AM, 2008

can fliers and bases be rotated midseason

Date: Tue Nov 4 9:37 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:
Being a new team I was curious if the allstar teams sometimes change the fliers and bases around. especially if you have a stunt group that cannot lift the girl or lifts improperly due to the flier's weight. we have a coach that insists that once the positions are picked that they cannot be moved. but we have the stunt group falling in our competitions. we are not sure why she is unwilling to train other lighter smaller girls to take the fliers place. we understand it requires basing changes too.

the coach says in allstars positions are never changed once picked. i just don't get it.

This is not true in allsatrs. But its obviously true in your gym.

Date: Tue Nov 4 9:48 AM, 2008

when you say not true in allstars, can you elaborate a bit more on that so i understand better. i'm told that is why it is not done but being new to the sport i honestly don't know enough to have a basis otherwise.

Date: Tue Nov 4 10:04 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:
when you say not true in allstars, can you elaborate a bit more on that so i understand better. i'm told that is why it is not done but being new to the sport i honestly don't know enough to have a basis otherwise.

sure, sorry. been in more than one allstar gym for multiple years and at all the gyms and all years the stunt groups changed routinely, not only flyers but one two or all bases.

our coach apparently doesn't feel that changing it up is a good idea, but that is not the general feeling at most allstar gyms. at most gyms even the routine is changing throughout the season, not jsut the position of a person or two.

Date: Tue Nov 4 10:05 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
when you say not true in allstars, can you elaborate a bit more on that so i understand better. i'm told that is why it is not done but being new to the sport i honestly don't know enough to have a basis otherwise.
sure, sorry. been in more than one allstar gym for multiple years and at all the gyms and all years the stunt groups changed routinely, not only flyers but one two or all bases.

our coach apparently doesn't feel that changing it up is a good idea, but that is not the general feeling at most allstar gyms. at most gyms even the routine is changing throughout the season, not jsut the position of a person or two.

*your* coach

Date: Tue Nov 4 10:19 AM, 2008

so is it possible that when i looked for a gym i didn't ask the right questions. and if so, what would be the kind of questions i should be asking. im told by the coaches that if the athlete doesn't show a huge desire to do it they won't even try them. i guess i'm unclear how a 7/8/9 year old has learned that type of desire or passion. i see in older cheerleaders (HS or college) passion is learned and present but how do they learn the passion at 7/8/9 if they aren't given the opportunity or even shown how to do it.

and i guess i need to know what opportunity means. what happens is they try them once or twice but with an immature base group and they fall, they don't try them anymore. is that what happens in other gyms?

Date: Tue Nov 4 10:53 AM, 2008

Are you wanting your daughter to fly? I sense this is what the underlying complaint it. I have been around All Star, HS, and rec cheer a few years now...coaches usually have a pretty good eye as to who will make a good flyer. At the beginning of each season..most likely looking candidates for flying are given a chance, and yes it may only be 1 0r 2 attempts at getting up in the air. if those first attempts are not promising..coaches move on to the next..the only time I have not seen that happen is when the flyer is a coaches daughter....then she is up regardless of size, stature , and ability! Sorry it is a blanket statement..but I have seen it all too otften.

I would look for a gym that offers "flight school!" There she could train on her own time to be a flier. Worth a shot. Good Luck!

Date: Tue Nov 4 11:03 AM, 2008

I wouldn't say you you didn't ask the right questions. I think you only need to ask questions that are deal breakers, which I wouldn't call this situation a deal breaker. It's just that particular coaches preference.

As for the desire or passion in the younger kids, many times they are the ones with little to no inhibition. They will ask and ask and ask. They have no problem bugging the coach to get what they want.

Yes, I can see a coach trying a flyer once or twice but if it doesn't work then they move one. If the current flyer continues not sticking, then the coach may decide to try someone else.

Date: Tue Nov 4 11:52 AM, 2008

Huh, there are flight school? do you know of any that you can give their names here.

im not necessarily motivated to have her fly due to higher injury risk but she wants to but i think is afraid to speak up. i don't get involved other than asking how she would get the experience. they've said she needs 2-3 months training but it is too late in the season so they won't work with her. but that said 2-3 months ago they said the same thing.

the coach also said that midseason rotations only happen with those that have experience or who have done it before. so that is another reason given for not swapping in/out.

i'd love to hear some other perspectives on this site. is there other posts on this?

Date: Tue Nov 4 11:59 AM, 2008

I've seen gyms offer flyers class here or there, it's pretty much a hit and miss. You should call around gyms in your area. Also, does your gym hold an open gym? If so, you may talk to some of the older/more experienced bases and see if they want to go with your daughter and work on stunting.

Date: Tue Nov 4 12:01 PM, 2008

I guess I just don't get all the focus on flying....and it seems to me that it is usually the parents that push to have their girls become fliers. I'm not saying the poster on this thread is pushing the issue, but I see it all the time in our gym....it is usually with the parents whose girls have just started.....fliers are definitely the most obvious part of a team....but they are not the most important!!!!

Date: Tue Nov 4 12:10 PM, 2008

the issue isn't a focus on flying its that there are littler girls that want to fly, bigger ones flying and falling but no changes being made. the reasoning by the coach is that positions are picked and not changed mid-season so i was just trying to understand that better.

daughter is a base/tumbler now and can be happy with that but flies balancing on our furniture at night when she comes home. i think she se would like to fly because she does this for hours and hours and hours on end.

like a good mom, i tell her to get off the furniture so she doesn't get hurt. so im maybe the odd parent that doesnt mind one way or the other

Date: Tue Nov 4 12:12 PM, 2008

more importantly can you then tell me in your gym how you pick your positions for base/flier/tumbler?

Date: Tue Nov 4 2:00 PM, 2008

yah i think they can be rotated at my gym we have a girls who base and fly one is like 5'6 she backs and bases but she does baskets cause one of the flyers cant

Date: Tue Nov 4 2:18 PM, 2008

it sounds like your gym is established and so has experienced athletes to be able to do that.

mine is not and there is only one flier that has done it before. the rest are rookies. so that is the question is whether the rookies should be tried out more than once or not especially if the other heaviest rookie that tries keeps falling. why do they keep them in the stunt rather than rotate them?

do they get locked into a position for the balance of the year or more for the balance of their cheer life?

also, if the coach says the athlete has potential to fly but just not on this coaches timeclock, then are they just feeding us a line to keep us coming back. don't get me wrong, my daughter loves to cheer but i think wants to be able to do it all fly/base/back/tumble. maybe that is not possible.

Date: Tue Nov 4 4:11 PM, 2008

the flyers at our gym were chosen by size, flexibility and can the girl fly and look good in the air (tight body, not wobbling, good body positions). maybe the coach needs your daughter for another spot. perhaps she is an awesome base, and bases contribute a lot to a team. but if your daughter really wants to fly have her stretch a lot and practice heel stretches, scorpions and scales. if her flexibility is amazing then maybe the coach will train her to fly

Date: Tue Nov 4 9:01 PM, 2008

I would guess that being new to the gym puts your daughter behind the eight ball. The gym already has flyers moving up in the system. I know of a gym who didn't know that they had flyers on the ground until someone spoke up and pointed them out. They all fly now and 3 of the 5 are on point. If you like where you are I would ask if they have any flying classes available. If not I would be looking elsewhere for flying lessons...

Good Luck!

Date: Tue Nov 4 11:03 PM, 2008

At our gym there is usually change in the routine several times to make sure the routine is the best it can be - this includes moving bases and fliers. My daughter told me that she wishes when she was asked to base that she had not had not really tried and said "I can't" like others she has seen so she could fly, but she was new and did not know the "politics." She is more flexible than most of the girls on her team, but she is also stronger so they end up needing her as a base to get the bigger girls up. One season they asked her to fly, I paid for three months of required flight school (if you where a flier you were assigned flight school) she was a base for the season. On the flip side I know a couple of girls that cried everytime they came to practice because the coach made them fly and the did not want to. It all depends on what the coaches see as the plan for the team, you do it or you don't cheer there.

Date: Wed Nov 5 12:31 AM, 2008

When I coach positions are never set in stone. If someone asked to learn a new skill ie; Flying, Back Spotting or Basing. I would encourge the athlete to attend "Flyer" Classes, Stretch, Bring in a group to open gyms or a private lesson and work on the skills required to be a good flyer/ base/ backspot. I would be very clear that doing so in now way is a guarentee that they will be a Flyer/ Back Spot/ Base. By doing these thing they are showing me they are willing to go the extra mile to excel at the new skill. Mid season it's hard to switch out athletes out without a good explaniation for their parent. They have to show me why they would be the better choice by showing me how serious they are about achieveing the new skill. If there is a flier who falls every competition that is a good reason to try someone new.
Keep in mind and I am pretty sure most coaches would agree we dont fly girls because they are little we fly girls who know what they are doing in the air, learn fast and take corrections.
I would NEVER allow a girl to fly if I wanted to try her as a base and she told me she couldnt. I would have her stand behind a stunt and train somone who was willing to learn the position I assesed would be best for her at that time.
Flying is not the only part of cheerleading! How would the fliers get in the air and be caught safely with out the bases and backspots?
If a girl comes to me mid season and wants to switch positions the very first thing I am going to look at is her work ethic not her size. If your daughter is planning on cheering in college she should know how to do all positions.
This is coming for a 10 year flyer, turned mid level flyer in college, turned base. I am happier with my feet on the ground!

Date: Sun Nov 9 10:57 AM, 2008

Why does everything think the onnly glory position is the flyer. good god everyone needs to get over it. become the best all around cheerleader you can be. until you can be the center point or last pass cheerleader in every formation you can all improve on something and get better.