I am on a level 4 team at my gym and I know of lots of girls who do put in the extra time and effort and just are not tumblers . We have a few girls on our team who are not tumblers who are great sunters dancers jumpers and team motovators. So who are you to say that these girls shouldn't have the opportunity to compete at a level four stunting level. I think it is a great idea. I have seen world cup compete in this dev and do a great job

This is only my second year involved with my daughter in "All Star" cheer and I have just realized reading this thread why it is not called "Competitive" Cheer.

[Get up on my soap box]
It appears that this sport has gone the way of Youth Soccer and Youth Baseball where every player at the end of the season receives a trophy just because they "deserve it". Gone are the days when you only got a trophy at the end of the season if you won the league.
[Get off my soap box]

I hate going to competitions where there are twenty division and one or two teams in most of them. All Star Cheer will not be considered legitimate until it becomes competitive. The addition of the 4.2 division is a step away from legitimizing it.

Ive seen plenty of 4.2 teams ( world cup being my favorite ), but personally i think that the whole "4.2" division will not go on for long. I think that some inexperencied level 2 cheerleaders will have difficulty ripping out level 4 stunting skills, and that the level four and two levels;are a odd combination.
Im not telling everyone to agree, but that is just my opinion.

I tired reading the whole thread so I wasn't repeating things but then my eyes were getting sore so I'll just give my 2 cents ;)

Over the years, allstar cheerleading has gotten lazier and lazier, it seems as if people are spending more time making excuses why they would go to worlds when they can't even land a standing back than actually working on it.

So it seems for the sake of business, level 4.2 has been offered, just giving gyms and kids more leeway to sit back and relax. Holding up a stunt is just about the easiest thing to learn in cheerleading, I know this for a fact because within the first three months of me cheering (in the stone age, just kiddinn) I was basing extended one legged stunts and catching full downs out of them with full size fliers (and if any of you knew me then I wasn't a big strong kid haha) before I even got the hang of leaning choreography for dances and such, let alone anything past lv 1 tumbling.

So in my eyes, I feel that the level 4.2 division is worthless and if the gym thinks that the cheerleader can hang on a level 4 team without throwing tucks and layouts, then move 'em on up to lv 4, but if not, they deserve to be on a lv 2 or 3 team. But the worst thing the industry can do with that is just give them a bottle and say, "oh don't worry, you don't have to work for any kind of tumbling you're just fine!"

ACEDAD I was wondering about that part also.... =)

i understand what he is trying to say. It's kinda true. the girls will learn to work hard to get a backhandspring and then stop trying to improve their tumbling skills. sure the girls can work stunting and end up being level 5 stunters but they never improve their tumbling. Tumbling will become an obsolete art. then what will those tumbling coaches do without classes to teach or privates to profit from. i guess it will mean more people on unemployment. they need to rethink this division before it kills the gyms and their tumbling classes.

Personally, I think there are WAY too many divisions as it is.  And I agree with the dad who said "everyone gets a trophy just cuz everyone deserves it."  I think the competitions are too banner and trophy happy, and to be quite honest, there are very few titles you can win now that ACTUALLY mean something. 

Just as an example, when I competed Sr. All Stars, I was with Motions for the first 3 years it was around.  In that time, my teams won ONE banner, and ZERO "Championship" jackets, backpacks, rings, stuffed toys, etc.  I won a backpack my senior year for competing and winning individuals at USA nationals, and I actually appreciated it because it was THE ONLY one I had.  Don't get me wrong, we won TONS of local competitions, but titles and banners weren't handed out at those, then when Nationals came around, we actually COMPETED for titles, and won and lost graciously.  Now, you win a banner and some kind of titleat EVERY comp you go to, even if you only compete against yourself!  Almost EVERY team gets a bid to the all levels worlds thing.  You can get a bid to USASF Worlds just for showing up!  I miss when there was Large and Small All Girl, and Large and Small Coed.  I do like the level system compared with the old Novice, Intermediate, and Advanced, but when your division rolls off the toungue like you're reading a book- Small Gym Small Limited Coed Level 4, or whatever it may be, we have a problem.  Gyms should be creating teams to fit the levels in order to COMPETE the best they can.  I feel like divisions are just being created so that everyone has a place to WIN.

That being said.. I don't disagree with 4.2.  Do I think USASF should do something about the other 791 divisions before ADDING this one?  Yes.  But I do think its a good place for older athletes who want to experience all stars but have kind of run out of time on the tumbling clock.  But, I also don't think there should be a million different categories for each level.  I don't think the LEVELS are the problem, because I do agree with level playing fields for the most part.  I think the small gym, large gym, open, not open, and whatever else there is, plus large and small in each of the sub divisions is OVERKILL.  Tinys, Minis, Large Youth, Small Youth, Large Junior, Small Junior, Junior Coed, Large Senior, Small Senior, Large Coed, Small Coed, Special Needs.  Multiplied by 5 levels, everyone should be able to find a place to fit. 

Not every kid will have the chance to go to the olympics, and not every kid should.  Thats the reason it is so many kids DREAM, because its so prestigious and one in a million get to experience it.  And I think both the All Level Championships and USASF World's should be kept just as prestigious.  You shouldn't automatically qualify just because you "won" a division with no one in it by competing at a competition with 852 divisions!

Just my 2 cents, World's should be something kids dream about.  Something they bust their booties off for to EARN, not something they just expect.

-- Edited by Amac at 14:10, 2009-01-09

Cory wrote:

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P.S. Thank you Amac I forgot to touch on that whole dealio in my original post, it's getting a little to easy to get a gold medal at worlds, let alone a bid. Oh yeah, I know you liked my double front last night! ;)

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You must mean your 1 1/2 to your head right?!?  Never do that again!  Scared the living you know what out of me!!!  Good to see you though... I'll probably be around alot more often!

LMAO ! Good one nelson ahhhaha,