Introducing Level 4.2?!?!?!?!

Date: Wed Sep 10 12:33 PM, 2008

RE: Introducing Level 4.2?!?!?!?!

Date: Wed Sep 10 12:54 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Here's another question, since it appears so far the majority thinks it's a ridiculous idea. Why wouldn't they test the waters by suggesting it first to get a reaction before making it USASF law? Obviously it's a terrible idea that is just going to weaken our sport.

I heard that many coaches at the USASF regional meetings have been complaining that their stunting is progressing faster than their tumbling. So this is the solution in order to satisfy those customers. I can relate to that complaint because a girl can make the local school team with little to NO tumbling and work on advanced stunts. All star teams are alot more regulated in terms of progressions, but athletes and parents don't understand that.

I personally feel that is sucks for those teams who have worked and sacrificed to move up a level. I also think we need to move back to novice, intermediate and advanced. We need to have more regional meetings with all star gyms because nobody knows whats going on until it becomes a rule and thats not a good way to run business or sports.

Agreed!

Date: Wed Sep 10 1:01 PM, 2008

Yes, that is a good point and one that was made earlier. Why just 4.2, why not 3.2, or 5.2, or 5.3, etc... etc... I think Acedad made another good point, they need a place or a way to make these suggestions to see what the feedback is before making them official. But having said that I don't think it's such a bad thing to see what the "general public" thinks, even if they are blasted for the suggestion. By general public I mean parents and athletes, not just gym owners and others in the business. With the uniform example, they might have been blasted for throwing the ideas out there, but didn't that give them a good idea of how most felt about it?

Date: Wed Sep 10 1:06 PM, 2008

Sorry, my post was referring to the one that said who's ready for the 5.4. I was trying to say where does it stop, and how it could get worse.

Sometimes I miss the days where you only had beginning, intermediate, and advanced, but I have to admit I do like Levels 1 through 5. I think it allows a better matchup of talent.

Date: Wed Sep 10 7:33 PM, 2008

Wasn't the leveling system put together to pracitice safety and perfection before progression. Normally people that are true level 2 cheerleaders are not only level 2 for tumbling reasons but for stunt, jumps and dance too.

I think this division is dangerous and will have kids trying skills they are not ready for . Safety is about progression.

If you have kids that will not put in the time to move through the levels like anything else they do not deserve to compete at a higher level.

Kids have become all about instant gratification. This only makes them think they are better then they are.

What comes next a non tumbling division?

I just can't support this idea, if I do, or if we all do then years from now we will have to put up with 17 year old girls that have been in our programs for 10 years thinking they deserve to be a level 4 cheerleader when they only have a bhs.

Date: Wed Sep 10 8:46 PM, 2008

Also would there be any true gratification in saying "hey, we won in division 4.2"? You would have to explain to everyone what that was.

Date: Wed Sep 10 9:23 PM, 2008

I hear all of you and agree with all of your points. But I am also trying to see the flip side of the arguement. I feel like this 4.2 is not such a bad thing for our industry just because so many kids get bored with all-star cheer and go into high school cheer due to the fact that they will never be a true level 3, 4, or 5 cheerleader. Their tumbling will never be that of a level 4 cheerleader no matter how many individual lessons or tumbling classes they attend.

When coaches were making a stink about losing kids to high school cheer back around tryout time, one of the points that was made was that low level tumblers could make the Varsity squad and participate in high level stunting and dancing. Those same kids would never be able to pass a level 2 team in all stars.

Maybe it will help everyone's gym numbers stay a little more stagnant too!

Date: Wed Sep 10 10:41 PM, 2008

Well said...

There are many girls interested in cheering but are unable to achieve the level of tumbling necessary to be a true Level 4 cheerleader. These girls are heading to HS and not coming back. If this keeps them around a little while longer, everyone wins...

Date: Thu Sep 11 7:10 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

I hear all of you and agree with all of your points. But I am also trying to see the flip side of the arguement. I feel like this 4.2 is not such a bad thing for our industry just because so many kids get bored with all-star cheer and go into high school cheer due to the fact that they will never be a true level 3, 4, or 5 cheerleader. Their tumbling will never be that of a level 4 cheerleader no matter how many individual lessons or tumbling classes they attend.

When coaches were making a stink about losing kids to high school cheer back around tryout time, one of the points that was made was that low level tumblers could make the Varsity squad and participate in high level stunting and dancing. Those same kids would never be able to pass a level 2 team in all stars.

Maybe it will help everyone's gym numbers stay a little more stagnant too!

I'm sure this is why this new division has come into play. If it does not affect you, then why bitch about it?

Date: Thu Sep 11 7:16 AM, 2008

I was talking to some coaches about it and they brought up some valid points. Large gyms can truely field teams at the "correct" levels because their recruitment and draw is so high , but for smaller gyms its hard to get a team with 20 fulls or 20 layouts. Same with any level. I think this came up because teams were getting beat at competitions. If the USASF would of KEPT the small gym divisions, then I think this division wouldn't even be necessary. Yes some kids do want to try super hard stunts, but if you most cheerleaders progress in their tumbling if they take tumbling each week and don't slack off. They might not get a full, but again team fulls is not necessary to win. Just majority of the team.

Date: Thu Sep 11 9:59 AM, 2008

I will admit I'm ignorant about High School Varsity divisions, maybe someone can shed some light. Do they have novice, intermediate, and advanced divisions? If so, where does level 4 stunting and level 2 tumbling fall... advanced? I would think if you had a high school team that has level 2 tumbling and tried to compete in advanced because of your stunts you would be going against girls with fulls,or at least tucks. Is that not the case? I'm trying to understand how all stars are losing members to high school. I always thought it was other issues like cost, and the social aspects of it.

Date: Thu Sep 11 11:45 AM, 2008

USASF added this to their website:

LEVEL 4.2

Throughout the Summer the USASF has conducted and is continuing to conduct regional meetings throughout the country. One of the common themes has been the loss of students due to the inability to tumble at the same competitive level. A suggestion from the New York meeting was the development of the 4.2 Level. This will allow athletes who have limited tumbling ability but with higher stunting ability the freedom of moving beyond the level 2 extension limit, straight ride limits in baskets, and other limits in pyramids and dismounts.

During the week of August 18 - 23, a National Advisory Board Meeting, a Rules Committee Meeting determining interpretation, a USASF Board meeting and a Safety judge certification took place in Dallas.

Every coach agreed the inclusion of Level 4.2 would help their gym by increasing revenue. Most, if not all of these coaches said they could add a new team immediately just from the athletes who have recently left. Many of these coaches agreed that the last thing anyone wants is a new division added to the already long list of divisions. However, they also agreed the addition of 4.2 was a necessity and predicted this to be the largest division within a couple of years.

If you have further questions on this new division please don't hesitate to contact me at: les.stella@gmail.com[/quote]

Tamara · cheergyms.com Master Poster

Anonymous wrote:
USASF added this to their website:
LEVEL 4.2

Throughout the Summer the USASF has conducted and is continuing to conduct regional meetings throughout the country. One of the common themes has been the loss of students due to the inability to tumble at the same competitive level. A suggestion from the New York meeting was the development of the 4.2 Level. This will allow athletes who have limited tumbling ability but with higher stunting ability the freedom of moving beyond the level 2 extension limit, straight ride limits in baskets, and other limits in pyramids and dismounts.
During the week of August 18 - 23, a National Advisory Board Meeting, a Rules Committee Meeting determining interpretation, a USASF Board meeting and a Safety judge certification took place in Dallas.
Every coach agreed the inclusion of Level 4.2 would help their gym by increasing revenue. Most, if not all of these coaches said they could add a new team immediately just from the athletes who have recently left. Many of these coaches agreed that the last thing anyone wants is a new division added to the already long list of divisions. However, they also agreed the addition of 4.2 was a necessity and predicted this to be the largest division within a couple of years.
If you have further questions on this new division please don't hesitate to contact me at: les.stella@gmail.com[/quote]

This looks familiar ;)...

I wish just one of these many, every, most coach would pop up on just one of the message boards I read and let us know why they thought this would be a good idea.

I haven't seen one post for this (okay, I have, but they were anonymous and I don't put much credit in those). I'm against it and my daughter doesn't even cheer anymore AND when she did this would have been the PERFECT division for her.

Date: Thu Sep 11 12:20 PM, 2008

Tamara wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
USASF added this to their website:
LEVEL 4.2

Throughout the Summer the USASF has conducted and is continuing to conduct regional meetings throughout the country. One of the common themes has been the loss of students due to the inability to tumble at the same competitive level. A suggestion from the New York meeting was the development of the 4.2 Level. This will allow athletes who have limited tumbling ability but with higher stunting ability the freedom of moving beyond the level 2 extension limit, straight ride limits in baskets, and other limits in pyramids and dismounts.
During the week of August 18 - 23, a National Advisory Board Meeting, a Rules Committee Meeting determining interpretation, a USASF Board meeting and a Safety judge certification took place in Dallas.
Every coach agreed the inclusion of Level 4.2 would help their gym by increasing revenue. Most, if not all of these coaches said they could add a new team immediately just from the athletes who have recently left. Many of these coaches agreed that the last thing anyone wants is a new division added to the already long list of divisions. However, they also agreed the addition of 4.2 was a necessity and predicted this to be the largest division within a couple of years.
If you have further questions on this new division please don't hesitate to contact me at: les.stella@gmail.com[/quote]

This looks familiar ;)...

I wish just one of these many, every, most coach would pop up on just one of the message boards I read and let us know why they thought this would be a good idea.

I haven't seen one post for this (okay, I have, but they were anonymous and I don't put much credit in those). I'm against it and my daughter doesn't even cheer anymore AND when she did this would have been the PERFECT division for her.

Ok lets take a poll of who will do this division.
All you have to do is post YES and what area you are from. That way bashing doesnt take place on a gym:

I will start first!

Yes we are considering this division. we are from the sac area

Tamara · cheergyms.com Master Poster

Anonymous wrote:
Ok lets take a poll of who will do this division.
All you have to do is post YES and what area you are from. That way bashing doesnt take place on a gym:

I will start first!

Yes we are considering this division. we are from the sac area

Wow! I can't believe POWER is going to participate in this.

just kidding! Others always seem to have fun knowing who the anonymous posters are, so I thought I'd join in. ;)

flipkidjudge · Senior Member

Lol. We are not considering it at this time. NC.

Date: Thu Sep 11 1:36 PM, 2008

This whole thread kind of makes me think back to the beginning of last season. There was an uproar about some teams competiing Open Level 3. By the end of the cheer season it was one of the divisions with the most competition. I see the samething happening here with this new division. In time everyone will be doing it. Next year something new will come up and it will be old news.

Date: Thu Sep 11 1:53 PM, 2008

Let's look at that example, open level 3. Yes, it was a very popular division. But what did it do to the level 3 division (non open)? Basically it took competition away from the non-open divisions at most of the competitions we attended. And that was the issue, way too many divisions. I see that happening here too with this 4.2 division. Can someone quickly mention what the high school divisions are like so we can see if there really is a justification for this? Afterall, that is their reasoning behind it.

Danny · Senior Member

I doubt we'd get into it this year but in the future I don't see why not.

Division credibility went away with the creation of Jr and Sr Prep back in the early 90's. So this 4.2 thing is just another adjustment that really can only help gyms around the country.

It's funny how we are all appauled by new divisions and then we all enter them. hehe.

Date: Thu Sep 11 3:09 PM, 2008

Danny I could not agree more.