Fund-raising takes a hit

Date: Mon Jul 28 12:03 PM, 2008

RE: How do booster clubs work with cheer gyms?

Date: Tue Jul 29 10:26 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Good this to know.

Coming from a parent who has seen booster clubs gone bad....

I hope that parents remember that booster clubs are set up for the kids. We all know that parents talk and start drama. What type of a role models do we show ours kids we are? If we can come together and work as a team to provide for them what they need to part take in this cheer each year, we are showing them what their coaches show them out on that floor...TEAMWORK!

i know a booster club in northern california that uses it gymnnatics booster club id to fundraise for its cheer program. and we turned them into the irs because it is illegal. it is a seperate business and program and you are not allowed to do that. they also have not elected new board members either. we chose not to participate in the booster program, we will not be part of the illegal activity at all

me too, in northern cali. And they falsely claimed to be non-profit, and come to find out they never were. They were reported to IRS and "hid" the booster club. They are still in business .... cry sad ........

Date: Tue Jul 29 2:34 PM, 2008

Well, why don't you all just turn yourselves in to the irs, because you know everyone is a little shady! biggrin

Date: Tue Jul 29 3:01 PM, 2008

ouch! you are too funny! these parents that turn in people are interesting to me. some of them are cooking their employers and being so dirty. this is funny.

Date: Tue Jul 29 4:01 PM, 2008

these boards are funny sometimes. First you say stand up for what is right, then you get snippy about parents who do stand up for what is right. we have to set examples to our children. this gym in nor cal area is a fairly new gym and they are the ones who chose to use their gymnastics IRS non profit tax number against the law. NOT US! They solicit donations for theor cheer program, work bingo and raise money falsely. It is wrong! Now if they weren;t trying to make you buy hours for not working or volunteering, then it wouldnt affect me, but tif you dont work or volunteer than you have to buy out. NO, how can they do this and be running an illegal non profit? They are now trying to get a real non profit number for their progarm, but I along with other parents stand by they should be held accountable. How can they send out sponsorship letters and collect money falsely? It isn't right. If they didnt have this buy out which make s it so we parents are doing things illegaly too. NO I DONT THINK SO! They have the same board members again this season in the same positions which leads me to believe that is how they have continued to do things the wrong way. A little to late. I stand by my decision to turn them in even if they do get a new IRS tax iD for their cheer program. they have been working under a false one for a couple years

Date: Tue Jul 29 6:37 PM, 2008

Can gyms really force you to "buy hours" for not volunteering??

Date: Tue Jul 29 7:22 PM, 2008

What exactly do they want you to volunteer to do? I pay tuition and would not expect to be required to volunteer. Now I do volunteer because I want to.
GAWK! What a concept.

But back to your question, I suppose if that is how they run their gym, I guess they could require you to volunteer. I have heard of private schools that require volunteer hours.

I know Spirit of Texas has this enormous (and I mean enormous) competition every year around Halloween. It fills the TCU college basketball arena in Fort Worth tx and it is staffed by all the parents of Spirit of Texas. I have a friend who puts in long hours there, but I have never heard it said it was 'required'. HOwever, I think it is an enormous financial benefit to the gym, so I imagine the gym families get some benefit. I'll have to ask her. (Just for funsies...the capacity of the arena is 7,200 and they fill that place up. Can you imagine as a gym, the revenue.???) It is a great competition. Well run, way cool decorations for Halloween, strong Texas teams participating. The only bummer is that I didn't get to see SOT perform cry

and that we don't go anymore because it is too far for a Sunday competition (families on the road too late.)

Date: Tue Jul 29 8:17 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

these boards are funny sometimes. First you say stand up for what is right, then you get snippy about parents who do stand up for what is right. we have to set examples to our children. this gym in nor cal area is a fairly new gym and they are the ones who chose to use their gymnastics IRS non profit tax number against the law. NOT US! They solicit donations for theor cheer program, work bingo and raise money falsely. It is wrong! Now if they weren;t trying to make you buy hours for not working or volunteering, then it wouldnt affect me, but tif you dont work or volunteer than you have to buy out. NO, how can they do this and be running an illegal non profit? They are now trying to get a real non profit number for their progarm, but I along with other parents stand by they should be held accountable. How can they send out sponsorship letters and collect money falsely? It isn't right. If they didnt have this buy out which make s it so we parents are doing things illegaly too. NO I DONT THINK SO! They have the same board members again this season in the same positions which leads me to believe that is how they have continued to do things the wrong way. A little to late. I stand by my decision to turn them in even if they do get a new IRS tax iD for their cheer program. they have been working under a false one for a couple years

I guess there is different levels of disception. There is another new NorCal All-Star team out there that hids behind a pop warner organization to fundraise. This team has nothing to do with pop warner organization because all the All-Stars members are too old to cheer under the pop warner by-laws. But yet, the all-star team is using the non-profit status, insurance, purchase power (for discounts) and what ever else a right All-star team would normally have to pay for on their own. What do you do? Turn in these types as well?

Date: Tue Jul 29 8:39 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

these boards are funny sometimes. First you say stand up for what is right, then you get snippy about parents who do stand up for what is right. we have to set examples to our children. this gym in nor cal area is a fairly new gym and they are the ones who chose to use their gymnastics IRS non profit tax number against the law. NOT US! They solicit donations for theor cheer program, work bingo and raise money falsely. It is wrong! Now if they weren;t trying to make you buy hours for not working or volunteering, then it wouldnt affect me, but tif you dont work or volunteer than you have to buy out. NO, how can they do this and be running an illegal non profit? They are now trying to get a real non profit number for their progarm, but I along with other parents stand by they should be held accountable. How can they send out sponsorship letters and collect money falsely? It isn't right. If they didnt have this buy out which make s it so we parents are doing things illegaly too. NO I DONT THINK SO! They have the same board members again this season in the same positions which leads me to believe that is how they have continued to do things the wrong way. A little to late. I stand by my decision to turn them in even if they do get a new IRS tax iD for their cheer program. they have been working under a false one for a couple years

I guess there is different levels of disception. There is another new NorCal All-Star team out there that hids behind a pop warner organization to fundraise. This team has nothing to do with pop warner organization because all the All-Stars members are too old to cheer under the pop warner by-laws. But yet, the all-star team is using the non-profit status, insurance, purchase power (for discounts) and what ever else a right All-star team would normally have to pay for on their own. What do you do? Turn in these types as well?

oh wow how sad that this goes on. i say that if you find these things out do the right thing too. these people make it hard for legit non profits to get their tax id numbers. if its not right speak out period. when do we stop letting things like this be swept under the rug just because we dont want to stir the pot. how do you respect a place like eother of these places.
gym owners if you are allowing this to go on, remember what we teach our children.... you always get caught. ALWAYS!

Date: Wed Jul 30 6:06 PM, 2008

Such a great subject!

ACEDAD · GURU

Recent booster club information:

Posted on Sun, Aug. 10, 2008

Fund-raising takes a hit

By Valarie Honeycutt Spears

vhoneycutt@herald-leader.com

David Stephenson | Staff

The tax man is threatening a long-standing practice of Fayette County booster clubs giving parents credit for fund-raising in a move that could have broad implications for extracurricular activities nationally.

The Henry Clay High School band booster club recently paid about $30,000 in IRS penalties, and the Lafayette band boosters were hit with a $9,000 fine, which they are appealing. The IRS has also contacted the Bryan Station baseball boosters.

At issue is something booster clubs have done for years: giving parents credits for working at bingo parlors and concession stands and selling items ranging from candles to candy. In many cases, those credits are then subtracted from the annual fees parents pay for extracurricular activities such as band, cheerleading and athletics.

But it now appears that the IRS is tightening up on the private, non-profit booster clubs, saying benefits to individual parents are illegal unless they pay taxes on the money.

The IRS actions here could have an impact nationally, since most booster clubs follow the same procedures.

Other booster clubs in Kentucky and from other states have called because they have similar procedures, said Brian Kinney, former president of the Lafayette band boosters.

IRS representative Jodie Reynolds said that federal law prohibits the IRS from discussing a specific organization's tax issue.

The practice of giving parents credits to work off fees they would otherwise have to write a check for has been widely accepted.

Our organizations have had these fund-raisers for years and there's never been a problem, so the district is surprised at the IRS' position, said Lisa Deffendall, a spokeswoman for Fayette County Schools. The district essentially has no authority over the private groups.

Fayette County Schools pays for head coaches and band directors and some assistants, but most expenses for sports and extracurricular activities are left to the parents.

Fund-raisers help booster clubs raise hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for uniforms, trips and equipment. In addition, big Fayette County booster clubs have paid for some of the nicest athletic fields in the state.

The concern about a process where little is paid by the school district is that many students won't get to participate because their parents can't afford the fees.

However, Douglas Romaine, the Lexington attorney who represents Lafayette band boosters, said the IRS is concerned about whether individual parents receive benefits or whether the fund-raising activities benefit the entire group.

Of all the fund-raisers for booster clubs in Fayette County, bingo has traditionally brought in the most money a total of $6.8 million from 2000 to 2005.

The IRS informed Bryan Station's baseball booster club that it could no longer give monetary credit to parents for their voluntary work efforts. And that affected the school's band boosters, a group that was sharing a bingo night with the baseball boosters.

The Bryan Station Baseball Booster Association can no longer compensate band members for working bingo, club members were informed in a newsletter. Therefore, we can no longer participate in bingo as a dependable monthly fund-raiser.

So it looks like the keeper of the taxes (IRS) has brought on the death of bingo.

Romaine said what has happened with the Lexington booster clubs is a significant issue in the tax-exempt organization arena.

At both Henry Clay and Lafayette, officials said every child is treated the same regardless of whether the family raises money for the club.

If a child can't afford it, all they have to do is tell the director and it's taken care of, said Scott Nicewarner, president of the Henry Clay group.

Romaine said the IRS is engaging in piecemeal policing, sanctioning some groups but not others.

The IRS has not given any guidance to the booster clubs, Romaine said.

Paying the price

Lafayette Band Association Inc. one of the largest band booster clubs in the state, is appealing the $9,000 IRS penalty it received for 2007, in the process racking up twice that much in legal fees, said Kinney, the booster club's former president.

The Lafayette group was audited a few years ago and told that it was doing everything right, Kinney said.

When it was audited again in 2007, the IRS found fault with the same practices that were previously approved, said Kinney. The group raised about $300,000 through fund-raising and fees in 2007, he said.

The fees in the Lafayette band are $900 per student each year. That covers all expenses, including uniforms, instruments and repairs on instruments, hotels, instructors and countless other extras that it takes to maintain a 200-person student band, Kinney says.

The band has won 14 state championships.

The Henry Clay band boosters, who brought in about $150,000 in 2007, never expected to pay a $30,000 penalty to the IRS.

We are just a bunch of parents trying to raise money because the school district doesn't fund a musical education for our children, said Nicewarner,

We didn't follow the letter of the law, he said, and, even though it was out of ignorance, the right thing to do was to pay it.

Nicewarner said the booster club paid the penalty so that the IRS would not go after individual families.

They were selling cookies, candles, flowers and fruit, and then to penalize them, it was causing major stress with the parents, he said.

Henry Clay Band members pay anywhere from $75 to $350 in fees annually, depending on how many band activities they participate in.

The club did extra fund-raising to make up for the $30,000.

Will students still play?

Jim Carroll, a spokesman for the Kentucky Department of Charitable Gaming, said that under state law, everyone who works bingo for a club is a volunteer and no individual is allowed to be compensated.

The Lafayette and Henry Clay band booster groups and the Bryan Station baseball booster group are all in good standing with the state, he said.

Meanwhile, boosters at both schools have stopped giving parents credit for fund-raising.

At Lafayette, all money raised goes into one pot and every family must pay the same amount in fees. Parents have less motivation to help with fund-raising, Kinney said, and some parents are questioning whether they can afford for their children to participate.

It will deter students from joining the band, said Kinney.

At booster club training sessions, district officials are telling booster clubs to work with their accountants.

Kinney said the Lafayette boosters are trying to figure out how to entice parents to help raise money without offering credits.

We are going to do something to counter, Kinney said. but we don't know what.

Date: Tue Aug 19 7:39 PM, 2008

Thank you for the interesting article Ace Dad. I'm curious what you think of it Ace Dad and others, do you think this kind of fundraising should be allowed to continue? Without it many athletes will have to quit I'm afraid. If parents are willing to put in the hours, and bingos and other events benefit as well, I don't see the problem. It is not like the parents are doing anything else with the money, it is going towards the sport/activity. I just personally hate the way the government is so quick to take these things away and never gives back. You never hear stories of the government helping these schools and organizations increase members, they always seem to make it more difficult instead, cutting back here and there until our youth has nothing left to preoccupy their free time. Sorry, I'm just bitter about the whole issue and I wish they would just stay out of it.

Date: Tue Aug 19 9:01 PM, 2008

ACEDAD wrote:

Recent booster club information:
Posted on Sun, Aug. 10, 2008
Fund-raising takes a hit
By Valarie Honeycutt Spears
vhoneycutt@herald-leader.com
David Stephenson | Staff

The tax man is threatening a long-standing practice of Fayette County booster clubs giving parents credit for fund-raising in a move that could have broad implications for extracurricular activities nationally.

The Henry Clay High School band booster club recently paid about $30,000 in IRS penalties, and the Lafayette band boosters were hit with a $9,000 fine, which they are appealing. The IRS has also contacted the Bryan Station baseball boosters.

At issue is something booster clubs have done for years: giving parents credits for working at bingo parlors and concession stands and selling items ranging from candles to candy. In many cases, those credits are then subtracted from the annual fees parents pay for extracurricular activities such as band, cheerleading and athletics.

But it now appears that the IRS is tightening up on the private, non-profit booster clubs, saying benefits to individual parents are illegal unless they pay taxes on the money.

The IRS actions here could have an impact nationally, since most booster clubs follow the same procedures.

Other booster clubs in Kentucky and from other states have called because they have similar procedures, said Brian Kinney, former president of the Lafayette band boosters.

IRS representative Jodie Reynolds said that federal law prohibits the IRS from discussing a specific organization's tax issue.

The practice of giving parents credits to work off fees they would otherwise have to write a check for has been widely accepted.

Our organizations have had these fund-raisers for years and there's never been a problem, so the district is surprised at the IRS' position, said Lisa Deffendall, a spokeswoman for Fayette County Schools. The district essentially has no authority over the private groups.

Fayette County Schools pays for head coaches and band directors and some assistants, but most expenses for sports and extracurricular activities are left to the parents.

Fund-raisers help booster clubs raise hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for uniforms, trips and equipment. In addition, big Fayette County booster clubs have paid for some of the nicest athletic fields in the state.

The concern about a process where little is paid by the school district is that many students won't get to participate because their parents can't afford the fees.

However, Douglas Romaine, the Lexington attorney who represents Lafayette band boosters, said the IRS is concerned about whether individual parents receive benefits or whether the fund-raising activities benefit the entire group.

Of all the fund-raisers for booster clubs in Fayette County, bingo has traditionally brought in the most money a total of $6.8 million from 2000 to 2005.

The IRS informed Bryan Station's baseball booster club that it could no longer give monetary credit to parents for their voluntary work efforts. And that affected the school's band boosters, a group that was sharing a bingo night with the baseball boosters.

The Bryan Station Baseball Booster Association can no longer compensate band members for working bingo, club members were informed in a newsletter. Therefore, we can no longer participate in bingo as a dependable monthly fund-raiser.

So it looks like the keeper of the taxes (IRS) has brought on the death of bingo.

Romaine said what has happened with the Lexington booster clubs is a significant issue in the tax-exempt organization arena.

At both Henry Clay and Lafayette, officials said every child is treated the same regardless of whether the family raises money for the club.

If a child can't afford it, all they have to do is tell the director and it's taken care of, said Scott Nicewarner, president of the Henry Clay group.

Romaine said the IRS is engaging in piecemeal policing, sanctioning some groups but not others.

The IRS has not given any guidance to the booster clubs, Romaine said.

Paying the price

Lafayette Band Association Inc. one of the largest band booster clubs in the state, is appealing the $9,000 IRS penalty it received for 2007, in the process racking up twice that much in legal fees, said Kinney, the booster club's former president.

The Lafayette group was audited a few years ago and told that it was doing everything right, Kinney said.

When it was audited again in 2007, the IRS found fault with the same practices that were previously approved, said Kinney. The group raised about $300,000 through fund-raising and fees in 2007, he said.

The fees in the Lafayette band are $900 per student each year. That covers all expenses, including uniforms, instruments and repairs on instruments, hotels, instructors and countless other extras that it takes to maintain a 200-person student band, Kinney says.

The band has won 14 state championships.

The Henry Clay band boosters, who brought in about $150,000 in 2007, never expected to pay a $30,000 penalty to the IRS.

We are just a bunch of parents trying to raise money because the school district doesn't fund a musical education for our children, said Nicewarner,

We didn't follow the letter of the law, he said, and, even though it was out of ignorance, the right thing to do was to pay it.

Nicewarner said the booster club paid the penalty so that the IRS would not go after individual families.

They were selling cookies, candles, flowers and fruit, and then to penalize them, it was causing major stress with the parents, he said.

Henry Clay Band members pay anywhere from $75 to $350 in fees annually, depending on how many band activities they participate in.

The club did extra fund-raising to make up for the $30,000.

Will students still play?

Jim Carroll, a spokesman for the Kentucky Department of Charitable Gaming, said that under state law, everyone who works bingo for a club is a volunteer and no individual is allowed to be compensated.

The Lafayette and Henry Clay band booster groups and the Bryan Station baseball booster group are all in good standing with the state, he said.

Meanwhile, boosters at both schools have stopped giving parents credit for fund-raising.

At Lafayette, all money raised goes into one pot and every family must pay the same amount in fees. Parents have less motivation to help with fund-raising, Kinney said, and some parents are questioning whether they can afford for their children to participate.

It will deter students from joining the band, said Kinney.

At booster club training sessions, district officials are telling booster clubs to work with their accountants.

Kinney said the Lafayette boosters are trying to figure out how to entice parents to help raise money without offering credits.

We are going to do something to counter, Kinney said. but we don't know what.

Wow, go irs. Let's lay down those laws and make sure parents and families are paying more. Because as we all know, they aren't paying their fare share of taxes. BS!

Date: Wed Aug 20 6:27 AM, 2008

Exactly, I know 1000 things that the IRS needs to be concerning themselves with and booster groups are not it.

Date: Wed Aug 20 9:07 AM, 2008

This sucks..... the IRS requires that any money recieved is split between ALL members of the booster club equally. So you can have parents working everyweekend at different places to fundraise and then you can have parents who want to sit on their rumps and do nothing. When the money comes in it goes to everyone, even to the child with the parents that sit on their rumps. Yes I know about the.... thats why you require all of the parents to work a certain number of events during the entire year. Been there, done that.... some parents are lazy and take advantage of others!

Date: Wed Aug 20 9:42 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

This sucks..... the IRS requires that any money recieved is split between ALL members of the booster club equally. So you can have parents working everyweekend at different places to fundraise and then you can have parents who want to sit on their rumps and do nothing. When the money comes in it goes to everyone, even to the child with the parents that sit on their rumps. Yes I know about the.... thats why you require all of the parents to work a certain number of events during the entire year. Been there, done that.... some parents are lazy and take advantage of others!

But on the flip side, there are some parents that do not need to fundraise. Can they elect to not be a member of the booster club? No membership, no benefits right?

Regardless, the tax laws seem to be are messed up on this one. How are we supposed to afford to keep our kids off the streets and out of trouble? The only thing we can afford is to resurface those streets they may wind up on. We've already paid those fees in previous year's taxes.

Date: Wed Aug 20 10:01 AM, 2008

Yes, please don't assume if you have parents who are not part of the funraising activities they are just sitting on their rumps trying to take advantage of the others. Parents who don't have the time and are willing to opt out of any fundraising profits should have that option. They should not be forced to do any fundraising activities; been there done that with pop warner and little league, should not have to do it with a private gym if we're willing to pay the tuition out of pocket.

Date: Wed Aug 20 12:09 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, please don't assume if you have parents who are not part of the funraising activities they are just sitting on their rumps trying to take advantage of the others. Parents who don't have the time and are willing to opt out of any fundraising profits should have that option. They should not be forced to do any fundraising activities; been there done that with pop warner and little league, should not have to do it with a private gym if we're willing to pay the tuition out of pocket.

You are not allowed to fundraise for tuition anyway. Only fees that help pay for travel, uniform, camps, banquets and other cost were the gym does not make a profit.

Date: Wed Aug 20 12:23 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, please don't assume if you have parents who are not part of the funraising activities they are just sitting on their rumps trying to take advantage of the others. Parents who don't have the time and are willing to opt out of any fundraising profits should have that option. They should not be forced to do any fundraising activities; been there done that with pop warner and little league, should not have to do it with a private gym if we're willing to pay the tuition out of pocket.

You are not allowed to fundraise for tuition anyway. Only fees that help pay for travel, uniform, camps, banquets and other cost were the gym does not make a profit.

Does any gym in Norther California make a profit?

Date: Wed Aug 20 2:20 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, please don't assume if you have parents who are not part of the funraising activities they are just sitting on their rumps trying to take advantage of the others. Parents who don't have the time and are willing to opt out of any fundraising profits should have that option. They should not be forced to do any fundraising activities; been there done that with pop warner and little league, should not have to do it with a private gym if we're willing to pay the tuition out of pocket.

You are not allowed to fundraise for tuition anyway. Only fees that help pay for travel, uniform, camps, banquets and other cost were the gym does not make a profit.

Details details. Okay, change tuition to any fees charged for the season. If parents are willing to pay out of their own pockets they shouldn't have to fundraise. And parents who wish to fundraise to help with these fees should be allowed to and should NOT have to share with those who didn't participate in the fundraising. Just my opinion of course.