True Level 5 Skills

Date: Tue Jun 3 10:30 AM, 2008

True Level 5 Skills

Date: Tue Jun 3 11:02 AM, 2008

It's different for every individual and every team. If she can contribute elite level flying she nmay only need to be able to land tucks out of all advanced jump sequences.

If she is an average to advanced base she generally needs top be twisting out of 2 back handsprings and working running doubles.

if you don't have any of this and you still want to grab one of those open sopts for level 4/5 cheerleaders.....WORK. And when you're done working.....work some more. Coaches notice.

Date: Tue Jun 3 11:04 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

It's different for every individual and every team. If she can contribute elite level flying she nmay only need to be able to land tucks out of all advanced jump sequences.

If she is an average to advanced base she generally needs top be twisting out of 2 back handsprings and working running doubles.

if you don't have any of this and you still want to grab one of those open sopts for level 4/5 cheerleaders.....WORK. And when you're done working.....work some more. Coaches notice.

I agree 100%!

Date: Tue Jun 3 11:52 AM, 2008

what does your daughter have?

Date: Tue Jun 3 12:03 PM, 2008

She has a tuck,but she lands with her feet apart, and her head between her legs. Is that really 'having' it? Her flying skills are pretty good, though.

Date: Tue Jun 3 12:10 PM, 2008

What is her pass tumbling and standing back handspring to?

Date: Tue Jun 3 12:13 PM, 2008

Well at least she has that. She might want to get her head out of her butt though. Sorry that was to easy. True level 5 teams now a days should have the whole squad throwing standing tucks. You just can not compete with out them.Even fulls now are not enough. You have to have your best out on the floor anything less well it is just not enough.

Date: Tue Jun 3 12:32 PM, 2008

I have a question for all people in gymnastics and studio dance. Is it slammed down your students throat to be on the top level "team" in your studio. I feel in cheerleading, there is so much bad technique being taught just for the sake of going to Worlds and being on a level 5 team. Let's get real, almost any gym who says they have a level 5 team gets to Worlds. Can't think of any that haven't or could not get a bid if they really wanted one. I just see girls who are level 2 and 3 wanting to get to level 5 within a year. Sometimes it can be possible, but in most cases you need experienece. Most of the larger gyms have kids who have been cheering for YEARS and people out here don't want to put the time in it seems like.

Date: Tue Jun 3 12:50 PM, 2008

Exactly! Going to worlds all the way from California is very costly, especially for just the "experience." Only a few gyms in Cali can actually go to worlds and do well.

Date: Tue Jun 3 2:44 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

My daughter wants to be on a level 5 team. What skills do you think she must have?

I believe to be a true level 5 athlete you need a triple toe back, a three to full on standing tumbling (standing full is better), a specialty pass thru to full (double is better) a stong base/flyier with excellent dance skills.

Date: Wed Jun 4 12:23 AM, 2008

I think that a lot of gyms are different. Some look for specific spots for the team. i.e. a person without a tuck BUT is a good base, most loyal athlete, Inspirational; so they are needed. That is I would assume for the gyms that just barely make a team of 20 TRUE level 5 girls but say had 16 and needed 4 "BOMB" bases , they will put the gils with a lower level skill, on the team. I think that a level 5 cheerleader needs to have the following before any skills -Hardwork,dedication, paitence, wit, CONFIDENCE, and self-motivation.
Now some other gyms, they have the talent turn out and can field a team with 20 "semi-TRUE" level 5 teams because they HAVE their 2 to full, tripple toe back, running handspring full. And sorry if I offend some people by saying "semi", but a TRUE level 5 cheerleader has a standing full, specialty thru to double, and standing 2 to double, should be able to base ANYONE of height/size/gender(now days) or fly and be able to do perfectly executed body lines and very technical double twist cradles (notice NOT double DOWN cradle).
We see a standing tuck, and layout highest skills for L4, then a TRUE level 5 the the listed are the skills you should really have. Now, do get me wrong, but the industry is still growing, but look at all the teams that EVERY YEAR surprise us because of how close they are truely becoming to be a tue level 5 team. Top Gun Lg Coed and Cheer Atheltics Lg coed are probably the closest with the amount of talent between the male and female athletes that they have. Still far away from the TRUE level, but definitely a lot closer than the rest of the WORLD!

Date: Wed Jun 4 9:05 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

I think that a lot of gyms are different. Some look for specific spots for the team. i.e. a person without a tuck BUT is a good base, most loyal athlete, Inspirational; so they are needed. That is I would assume for the gyms that just barely make a team of 20 TRUE level 5 girls but say had 16 and needed 4 "BOMB" bases , they will put the gils with a lower level skill, on the team. I think that a level 5 cheerleader needs to have the following before any skills -Hardwork,dedication, paitence, wit, CONFIDENCE, and self-motivation.
Now some other gyms, they have the talent turn out and can field a team with 20 "semi-TRUE" level 5 teams because they HAVE their 2 to full, tripple toe back, running handspring full. And sorry if I offend some people by saying "semi", but a TRUE level 5 cheerleader has a standing full, specialty thru to double, and standing 2 to double, should be able to base ANYONE of height/size/gender(now days) or fly and be able to do perfectly executed body lines and very technical double twist cradles (notice NOT double DOWN cradle).
We see a standing tuck, and layout highest skills for L4, then a TRUE level 5 the the listed are the skills you should really have. Now, do get me wrong, but the industry is still growing, but look at all the teams that EVERY YEAR surprise us because of how close they are truely becoming to be a tue level 5 team. Top Gun Lg Coed and Cheer Atheltics Lg coed are probably the closest with the amount of talent between the male and female athletes that they have. Still far away from the TRUE level, but definitely a lot closer than the rest of the WORLD!

personally what i dont like is in level 4 its lays... then you jump to level 5 and are expect to have a double!

Date: Wed Jun 4 9:25 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

I think that a lot of gyms are different. Some look for specific spots for the team. i.e. a person without a tuck BUT is a good base, most loyal athlete, Inspirational; so they are needed. That is I would assume for the gyms that just barely make a team of 20 TRUE level 5 girls but say had 16 and needed 4 "BOMB" bases , they will put the gils with a lower level skill, on the team. I think that a level 5 cheerleader needs to have the following before any skills -Hardwork,dedication, paitence, wit, CONFIDENCE, and self-motivation.
Now some other gyms, they have the talent turn out and can field a team with 20 "semi-TRUE" level 5 teams because they HAVE their 2 to full, tripple toe back, running handspring full. And sorry if I offend some people by saying "semi", but a TRUE level 5 cheerleader has a standing full, specialty thru to double, and standing 2 to double, should be able to base ANYONE of height/size/gender(now days) or fly and be able to do perfectly executed body lines and very technical double twist cradles (notice NOT double DOWN cradle).
We see a standing tuck, and layout highest skills for L4, then a TRUE level 5 the the listed are the skills you should really have. Now, do get me wrong, but the industry is still growing, but look at all the teams that EVERY YEAR surprise us because of how close they are truely becoming to be a tue level 5 team. Top Gun Lg Coed and Cheer Atheltics Lg coed are probably the closest with the amount of talent between the male and female athletes that they have. Still far away from the TRUE level, but definitely a lot closer than the rest of the WORLD!

i disagree. i don't think it means a specialty to double. the only difference between level 3 and level 4 is a jump/standing tumble to tuck and a layout. level 3 can do running tucks, so the only difference is the layout and the standing skills to tucks. level 5 opens it up more with fulls, doubles are what is NEEDED to be at the top of the industry, but specialty to double, and 2 to double don't make you a TRUE level 5 talent. and talking about true level 5 talent i would go more with a team like cheer athletic panthers or world cup. the large all girl at worlds are maxing out their tumbling as a team, while the large coed is just going above and beyond with a handful of their athletes. both top gun and cheer athletics had people who couldn't tumble and hid them well, but they still had them. all teams do. so if you're talking about a true level 5 team you might have to wait a while

Date: Thu Jun 5 2:17 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

I think that a lot of gyms are different. Some look for specific spots for the team. i.e. a person without a tuck BUT is a good base, most loyal athlete, Inspirational; so they are needed. That is I would assume for the gyms that just barely make a team of 20 TRUE level 5 girls but say had 16 and needed 4 "BOMB" bases , they will put the gils with a lower level skill, on the team. I think that a level 5 cheerleader needs to have the following before any skills -Hardwork,dedication, paitence, wit, CONFIDENCE, and self-motivation.
Now some other gyms, they have the talent turn out and can field a team with 20 "semi-TRUE" level 5 teams because they HAVE their 2 to full, tripple toe back, running handspring full. And sorry if I offend some people by saying "semi", but a TRUE level 5 cheerleader has a standing full, specialty thru to double, and standing 2 to double, should be able to base ANYONE of height/size/gender(now days) or fly and be able to do perfectly executed body lines and very technical double twist cradles (notice NOT double DOWN cradle).
We see a standing tuck, and layout highest skills for L4, then a TRUE level 5 the the listed are the skills you should really have. Now, do get me wrong, but the industry is still growing, but look at all the teams that EVERY YEAR surprise us because of how close they are truely becoming to be a tue level 5 team. Top Gun Lg Coed and Cheer Atheltics Lg coed are probably the closest with the amount of talent between the male and female athletes that they have. Still far away from the TRUE level, but definitely a lot closer than the rest of the WORLD!

I'd say California Allstars is right in there with them in the skill level with both female and male...

flipkidjudge · Senior Member

Anonymous wrote:

I have a question for all people in gymnastics and studio dance. Is it slammed down your students throat to be on the top level "team" in your studio. I feel in cheerleading, there is so much bad technique being taught just for the sake of going to Worlds and being on a level 5 team. Let's get real, almost any gym who says they have a level 5 team gets to Worlds. Can't think of any that haven't or could not get a bid if they really wanted one. I just see girls who are level 2 and 3 wanting to get to level 5 within a year. Sometimes it can be possible, but in most cases you need experienece. Most of the larger gyms have kids who have been cheering for YEARS and people out here don't want to put the time in it seems like.

From my time in gymnastics, there was nothing like this pressure to be on the top team in the program or to be immediately be considered the best. Whie you always had some coaches and programs that may have pushed such nonsense, as a whole this was not the case. One of the best reasons why is that the levels had firm checks and balances on how to move up a level. You rarely could bypass it, except in the rare case of an accepted petition. You had to attain certain scores and in some cases do it at least two times in the same year before you could move up a level. Once you moved up that was where you competed..if you could not hang you either quit, or started doing cheerleading...(sorry but that is way 1979 old school...rofl!) You could not drop back down because it was easier to win. Again the only exception was a petition, like in the case of injury.

Progression and technique were considered crucial to success. You would spend more time working technique than you did throwing the skill at times. Skills were broken apart into segments and the segmenets were worked on religiously. Flexability and conditioning were never shirked because (as many cheer parents have told me) we are not paying for that, we need that ______ (insert name of whatever skill you want here) so she can move up to the next team. It was considered a sin and a shame to take kids to competition without the basic skills mastered.

Taking a look at a couple of the last Hot Shot gymnasts (4-8 year olds targeted as a group to excel) I trained as brand new gymnast, both are doing phenonimally well. One is one of the star tumblers on CEA, another is the Level 9 Eastern National Champion, another is doing gymnastics at NC State. All spent numerous hours in the gym working on basic body positions, strength, flexability, and core skills...BEFORE EVER DOING SKILLS OR TRICKS!

As for the World's thing, there are several factors thjat IMHO need to be fixed. But I feel they will not because we fail to forget that World's is primarily a competition, which means it is about making money. To make the changes to "legitimize" World's, ensure all judging is untainted by other relationships that may not be known to the general public, qualify the teams that go there are truly Level 5 as yopu say (which by the way we can't even agree on...lol), make sure the bid process is fair and that every gym truly has the opportunity to win/earn a bid all means it would cause the comp company to lose money. Until they are the last man standing I do not see that happening.

So that leaves it on the coaches, and rightly so. Then you deal with recruting issues with gyms trying to raid other gyms of their higher level kids...or if you don't offer a Level 5 program; or your level 4's and 3's leave and go around the corner because over there they can be on a level 5, even if it is not a strong level 5 team..so you can never quite get your level 5 skills up to par so you can be competitive as a team, so you go ahead and take the plunge anyhow. Knowing you will get beat, but at least you may keep a couple of your level 5's a little longer. In other words, the business side of this stinks, but it drives a lot of these decisions...not the actual skill level.

We are unique as a gym because 85% of our teams traditionally are walk through the door first time cheerleaders. Until this year 91% of the Level 5's on our teams were trained at our gym predominantly..they never cheered anywhere else. We sign beginners up at any age...which has honestly had some programs ridicule our Level 2 Seniors team (we do not do level 1's yet)...that they did not understand that 96% of that team it was only their first or second year cheerleading ever. This year we have gotten a bump across the board because of some gym closings/reorginations in the area that will alter those percentages.

Ok...my rant is done. I told my tumble staff yesterday that I will be ticked off if I have squad fulls on each one of my level 5 teams, but I do not have squad BHS and running ROBHS on my level 2 teams. Any guess as to who they were working with? biggrin

-- Edited by flipkidjudge at 13:26, 2008-06-06

Date: Fri Jun 6 1:51 PM, 2008

Flipkidjudge, great post! Most of what you said about gymnastics is still how it works, at least it was a couple of years ago when I left.

I think the biggest obstacle that cheer faces is a sense of entitlement that parents and gym owners seem to feel. One of the reasons gymnastics is able to run smoothly is there are rules put in place by the governing body (They used to call it the USGF) and are accepted as a rule. Not saying people don't complain about it within their gym or with their friends, but they also can just deal with it and move on. What I'm seeing with cheerleading is that every proposed rule is being met with a huge amount of resistance. People feel that it is their "right" to be able to do whatever they want. While this is true, they do have rights, I think it is important to realize that there must be some compromise made between different groups.

For example, the proposed rule about banning crop tops. The amount of anger that people expressed over something as silly as a crop top was astounding. The way I see it is if you're the best athletes then you will win and no one cares what you're wearing. So if the USASF (or whatever it is now) wants to require everyone to compete in full tops because they feel it is more accepted world wide, then there's no reason to fight it. But when that issue came up I heard a lot of "no one can tell my daughter what to wear" or "I have the right to put my team in crop tops if I want" which in my opinion is just counter productive.

I think it is very similar to raising children, one of the most important things to keep in mind with kids is to choose your battles wisely. If you fight them over every little thing that they do pretty soon you become ineffective. But if you realize that it's really important that your child eat food, but not really so important if they want to play in the dirt (because children are washable after all) then you'll be able to create much happier existence for both you and your child.

So when it comes to cheerleading, fight for the things that affect the athletes; spring floors, safety equipment, safety certification of coaches, and let the things go that, in the big picture, aren't that big of a deal; uniforms, whether the really bad Level 5 team that can't do backhandsprings manages to find a bid to World's and gets last (no matter what you think this is not hurting you, your child, or cheerleading as a sport in any way).

I'm sure I offended someone, but there were no personal attacks in my post. I don't know anyone on this board or really anyone in All Star cheerleading anymore so even if you think I'm talking about you, I'm not.

Date: Fri Jun 6 5:21 PM, 2008

I wish I had level 5 tumbling skills. Wait I do!! in my dreams..

Date: Sat Jun 7 1:54 PM, 2008

The basic standard for competing on a level 5 team at worlds is a triple toe back and a full. When it comes down to it, tumbling is the deciding factor and without it, you can't be a true level 5 cheerleader.

Date: Sat Jun 7 1:56 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

She has a tuck,but she lands with her feet apart, and her head between her legs. Is that really 'having' it? Her flying skills are pretty good, though.

To be on a level 5 team, she has to have a solid full. At least.

Date: Sat Jun 7 3:22 PM, 2008

is she a big girl is she able to be a base they always seem to have a few big girls who don't tumble