Competition Refunds

Date: Mon May 5 8:54 PM, 2008

RE: Competition Refunds

Date: Tue May 6 12:21 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Parents WAKE up !!! This is a business. Your gym owners are not in it to make your day better. They are in it because this is their livelihood. If any kick back is given, it is given to they gym and not the PARENT. It increases thier profit if there is any profit.

Also, don't be naive to think that the price that you are quoted is the price that the gym pays. It is highly inflated. Just like the insurance fees, registration fees, etc.

People are in this to make money.

I guess that's why my gym owner drives a MERCEDES

Okay a mercedes does not make you have money. I know several people who drive a mercedes and live at home with MOMMY. What the? EVER.. Dont hate

Date: Tue May 6 12:22 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Parents WAKE up !!! This is a business. Your gym owners are not in it to make your day better. They are in it because this is their livelihood. If any kick back is given, it is given to they gym and not the PARENT. It increases thier profit if there is any profit.

Also, don't be naive to think that the price that you are quoted is the price that the gym pays. It is highly inflated. Just like the insurance fees, registration fees, etc.

People are in this to make money.

I guess that's why my gym owner drives a MERCEDES

Okay a mercedes does not make you have money. I know several people who drive a mercedes and live at home with MOMMY. What the? EVER.. Dont hate

Maybe they have really good credit, I highly doubt that they have bought the cars outright.

Tamara · cheergyms.com Master Poster

I think refunds due to cancelled comps should be passed onto the parents; however, kickbacks are the property of the gym that has enough teams to earn the incentive.

Date: Tue May 6 8:18 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Parents WAKE up !!! This is a business. Your gym owners are not in it to make your day better. They are in it because this is their livelihood. If any kick back is given, it is given to they gym and not the PARENT. It increases thier profit if there is any profit.

Also, don't be naive to think that the price that you are quoted is the price that the gym pays. It is highly inflated. Just like the insurance fees, registration fees, etc.

People are in this to make money.

I guess that's why my gym owner drives a MERCEDES

Okay a mercedes does not make you have money. I know several people who drive a mercedes and live at home with MOMMY. What the? EVER.. Dont hate

Maybe they have really good credit, I highly doubt that they have bought the cars outright.

Maybe part of the divorce settlement

Date: Tue May 6 8:19 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Parents WAKE up !!! This is a business. Your gym owners are not in it to make your day better. They are in it because this is their livelihood. If any kick back is given, it is given to they gym and not the PARENT. It increases thier profit if there is any profit.

Also, don't be naive to think that the price that you are quoted is the price that the gym pays. It is highly inflated. Just like the insurance fees, registration fees, etc.

People are in this to make money.

I guess that's why my gym owner drives a MERCEDES

Okay a mercedes does not make you have money. I know several people who drive a mercedes and live at home with MOMMY. What the? EVER.. Dont hate

Maybe they have really good credit, I highly doubt that they have bought the cars outright.

Maybe part of the divorce settlement

poor guy

Date: Tue May 6 8:24 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Parents WAKE up !!! This is a business. Your gym owners are not in it to make your day better. They are in it because this is their livelihood. If any kick back is given, it is given to they gym and not the PARENT. It increases thier profit if there is any profit.

Also, don't be naive to think that the price that you are quoted is the price that the gym pays. It is highly inflated. Just like the insurance fees, registration fees, etc.

People are in this to make money.

I guess that's why my gym owner drives a MERCEDES

Okay a mercedes does not make you have money. I know several people who drive a mercedes and live at home with MOMMY. What the? EVER.. Dont hate

Maybe they have really good credit, I highly doubt that they have bought the cars outright.

I'm an owner and I have coaches that drive new BMW, SUV, trucks and even moterhomes! And you know what? I glad that they can! And if I could charge more so that I could pay them more I would! But that is not how the market works. As with any business we are balancing our ability to pay employees with what we are able to charge the customer and in the end make as comfortable a living as possible.

If this market was hugely profitable, then there would be a cheer club on every corner (like Starbucks). But it is not.

If there were a ton of unemployed, knowledgeable and experienced cheer coaches looking for jobs then we would pay them less and they would all ride the bus to work... but there aren't!

The bottom line is this. The free market works. If as a business owner (risk taker) I tap into a market that the consumer is looking for, provide it in a way that pleases the consumer in a way that is better than other choices, and I meet their expectations )(or beat them).... then why does it matter to you what I or my employees choose to send our income on? As long as we do our job well and meet you needs then what we do with our income is none of your concern. In fact, an earlier post had it right that that is the business that you should want to be affiliated with.

Date: Tue May 6 8:29 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Parents WAKE up !!! This is a business. Your gym owners are not in it to make your day better. They are in it because this is their livelihood. If any kick back is given, it is given to they gym and not the PARENT. It increases thier profit if there is any profit.

Also, don't be naive to think that the price that you are quoted is the price that the gym pays. It is highly inflated. Just like the insurance fees, registration fees, etc.

People are in this to make money.

I guess that's why my gym owner drives a MERCEDES

Okay a mercedes does not make you have money. I know several people who drive a mercedes and live at home with MOMMY. What the? EVER.. Dont hate

Maybe they have really good credit, I highly doubt that they have bought the cars outright.

I'm an owner and I have coaches that drive new BMW, SUV, trucks and even moterhomes! And you know what? I glad that they can! And if I could charge more so that I could pay them more I would! But that is not how the market works. As with any business we are balancing our ability to pay employees with what we are able to charge the customer and in the end make as comfortable a living as possible.

If this market was hugely profitable, then there would be a cheer club on every corner (like Starbucks). But it is not.

If there were a ton of unemployed, knowledgeable and experienced cheer coaches looking for jobs then we would pay them less and they would all ride the bus to work... but there aren't!

The bottom line is this. The free market works. If as a business owner (risk taker) I tap into a market that the consumer is looking for, provide it in a way that pleases the consumer in a way that is better than other choices, and I meet their expectations )(or beat them).... then why does it matter to you what I or my employees choose to send our income on? As long as we do our job well and meet you needs then what we do with our income is none of your concern. In fact, an earlier post had it right that that is the business that you should want to be affiliated with.

Not so sure I wanna be affiliated with it anymore.

Date: Tue May 6 9:51 AM, 2008

First off, I am not a gym owner or coach - I'm a cheer parent, and I'm would be really worried if our owners weren't doing well, or if they had to pay high school kids minimum wage to coach difficult stunts and tumbling. Why would you think your owners/coaches need to live in poverty in order to justify working with your kids? That's stupidity. If that were the case, why would anyone do it? Do you know how hard it is to keep a gym running? Coaching and training all those kids, dealing with parents and their issues, paying the bills on a facility large enough to hold spring floors, tumble tracks, parent viewing areas, offices, etc., ordering uniforms, warm ups, practice clothing, spectator shirts and spirit store items, organizing competition fees, figuring out rosters, travel plans to competitions, not to mention Worlds and all the paperwork that goes with that, handling payroll for their employees, keeping snacks and water supplied at the gym - whew! There's a lot more involved than the time they're working directly with your kids. Nobody works for free. Our owners and coaches work hard - very hard, and deserve to be paid well enough to drive a nice car, if that's what they choose to spend their money on.

Ok - and let's look at this another way. How many families drive up in brand new luxury cars, or the kids have on designer clothes or carry designer purses, or they go to an expensive private school, and yet, the family is late on paying their tuition or competition fees. That money comes out of the pocket of the owners. Whose credit card do you think gets dinged with extra interest when parents pay competition fees late, and the gym has to pay up front, or put out money for uniforms or warm ups and then have to wait to get reimbursed. Without liquidity, the entire gym would suffer.

Our gym is not a non-profit, but even employees of non-profits are entitled to fair pay unless they are stated as volunteers. Now if they are doing something shady with finances, that's another story and you have a valid reason to investigate. But employees of any organization are entitled to fair pay - non-profit or otherwise.

Date: Tue May 6 11:31 AM, 2008

I just think it is interesting. When you go out to dinner and get charged $18 for a steak dinner you dont return a week later asking the owner what he did with your money. If your coaches and comp fees are paid for and you dont feel you are paying an arm and a leg for cheer it should not matter what kind of car they drive or house they live in. Also, we do other things outside of the gym, choreography and judging may also offset our own bills. I know that I am planning on do about 5 routines this summer and I will be able to afford to pay off my car, that is my personal money, not the gyms. Will I get a flashy new mercedes, probably not, will I go shopping and by myself something, of course I will. It is my job, I deserve to be paid for it.

Date: Tue May 6 8:32 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

I just think it is interesting. When you go out to dinner and get charged $18 for a steak dinner you dont return a week later asking the owner what he did with your money. If your coaches and comp fees are paid for and you dont feel you are paying an arm and a leg for cheer it should not matter what kind of car they drive or house they live in. Also, we do other things outside of the gym, choreography and judging may also offset our own bills. I know that I am planning on do about 5 routines this summer and I will be able to afford to pay off my car, that is my personal money, not the gyms. Will I get a flashy new mercedes, probably not, will I go shopping and by myself something, of course I will. It is my job, I deserve to be paid for it.

You couldnt have said it better!!! biggrin

Date: Tue May 6 9:48 PM, 2008

I like the $18 steak analogy. Now for $18 a steak twice a week, your customers will expect it to be high quality meat cooked the way they like it. So it's perfectly understandable to have the right to charge what you want, you've earned it. But know that your customers also have rights and will want their money's worth. The more you charge, the higher the expectations. Gyms that deliver are the ones that thrive and succeed year after year. As long as customers feel they are getting what they paid for, everybody's happy.

Date: Tue May 6 10:04 PM, 2008

Non profits must file tax returns. This is new from the past two years. This is also public record. Non profits are ran just like a regular business, with the exception that no one owns it and it is governed by an executive board, and other smaller boards if necessary and needed.

Non profits are over rated and HUGELY taken advantage of. Recently two parents of cheerleaders formed a new non profit just to pay for their kids fees. This isn't how a non profit should be legally ran.

A non profit should have a mission and by-laws which include the best interest of everyone, not just a select few.

Most gyms are for profit with this being said, to make the books available to parents really isn't any of their business. Why don't gym owners start asking for a copy of parents recent tax records, a copy of their paycheck stubs, bank account balances and then MAYBE gym owners would know if their clients are a safe bet. Some people don't pay and take advantage, maybe all the bounced checks should be xeroxed and pasted in the lobby................ just a thought.

Date: Wed May 7 5:55 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Non profits must file tax returns. This is new from the past two years. This is also public record. Non profits are ran just like a regular business, with the exception that no one owns it and it is governed by an executive board, and other smaller boards if necessary and needed.

Non profits are over rated and HUGELY taken advantage of. Recently two parents of cheerleaders formed a new non profit just to pay for their kids fees. This isn't how a non profit should be legally ran.

A non profit should have a mission and by-laws which include the best interest of everyone, not just a select few.

Most gyms are for profit with this being said, to make the books available to parents really isn't any of their business. Why don't gym owners start asking for a copy of parents recent tax records, a copy of their paycheck stubs, bank account balances and then MAYBE gym owners would know if their clients are a safe bet. Some people don't pay and take advantage, maybe all the bounced checks should be xeroxed and pasted in the lobby................ just a thought.

You have always had to file tax returns with a non profit status. The thing is as a non profit, the government is much harder on you.

Date: Wed May 7 6:17 AM, 2008

Tamara wrote:

I think refunds due to cancelled comps should be passed onto the parents; however, kickbacks are the property of the gym that has enough teams to earn the incentive.

Are you kidding me. This is parents money that was paid for. The gyms should not be keeping the money. And we all want to call this a sport when nothing is transparent.

As far as what type of car gym owners drive, what does that matter. Remember there are 2 components to Cheer Gyms. One being the business side that collects your tuition payment for the year and any extra classes you might take. That is where they are supose to make money.

The other side of the equation is the non for profit side. The non for profit is set up so the members can participate in fundraising activities to pay for the competition entry fees and travel cost associated with cheering. Any kickbacks or refunds should be put back into the non for profit bucket as it is the parents/kids doe rae me. Is it, I don't know.

For someone's post about gymes charging a higher price for entry fees, I would pitch a fit. What I do think they inflate is their coaches expenses during travel time. I sure as he!! don't eat steak and lobster for dinner everytime I go away, why should I pay for them. And frankley, I shouldn't be paying the owner's fee. They own their company and they can right their expenses off on the business side.

Date: Wed May 7 6:23 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Non profits are over rated and HUGELY taken advantage of. Recently two parents of cheerleaders formed a new non profit just to pay for their kids fees. This isn't how a non profit should be legally ran.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

TRUE THAT!!! There is a not-for-profit gym that did pay their parent/coaches a paycheck AND their kids cheered for FREE AND let many of the choreographer's friend cheer for FREE. While they took the money from all the other parents month after month.

These FREE kids were the one placed in the center front, allowed to compete as individuals and were used to double team on cheer teams AND also allowed to hip hop dance on their dance teams. Is this far to the parents of the kids that pay?

Government does not regulate that closely. It's not difficult to watch the goings on of a less than honest Not-for-profit gym minpulate the situation. That is why it is EXTREMELY important for a not-for-profit organization rotate the board functions. Be cautious of a not-for-profit that hasn't changed the dynamics of it board for multiple years.

Warning signs of a not-for-profit that may be in trouble.

*Huge cost increases from last season
*lowering the standards of items like uniforms or shoes
*turn around in cheerleaders - did the population of the gym decrease dramatically?
*Main board members and staff will not be returning?
*Sudden change in gym equipment or even gym consolidation

Be smart and careful out there!

flipkidjudge · Senior Member

Nelson wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My daughters coach just got a Mercedes too. This year must of been good

I drive a used honda accord with 125,000 miles on it. You should come to my gym.

I drive an used Chevy Blazer with 212,000 miles on it.

Date: Wed May 7 7:33 AM, 2008

I'm an owner and I have coaches that drive new BMW, SUV, trucks and even moterhomes! And you know what? I glad that they can! And if I could charge more so that I could pay them more I would! But that is not how the market works. As with any business we are balancing our ability to pay employees with what we are able to charge the customer and in the end make as comfortable a living as possible.

If this market was hugely profitable, then there would be a cheer club on every corner (like Starbucks). But it is not.

If there were a ton of unemployed, knowledgeable and experienced cheer coaches looking for jobs then we would pay them less and they would all ride the bus to work... but there aren't!

The bottom line is this. The free market works. If as a business owner (risk taker) I tap into a market that the consumer is looking for, provide it in a way that pleases the consumer in a way that is better than other choices, and I meet their expectations )(or beat them).... then why does it matter to you what I or my employees choose to send our income on? As long as we do our job well and meet you needs then what we do with our income is none of your concern. In fact, an earlier post had it right that that is the business that you should want to be affiliated with.

This sums it up 100%. good job. I've never understood why so many parents seem to believe they have a right to regulate owner's charges. Take it or leave it!

Date: Wed May 7 5:55 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

I'm an owner and I have coaches that drive new BMW, SUV, trucks and even moterhomes! And you know what? I glad that they can! And if I could charge more so that I could pay them more I would! But that is not how the market works. As with any business we are balancing our ability to pay employees with what we are able to charge the customer and in the end make as comfortable a living as possible.

If this market was hugely profitable, then there would be a cheer club on every corner (like Starbucks). But it is not.

If there were a ton of unemployed, knowledgeable and experienced cheer coaches looking for jobs then we would pay them less and they would all ride the bus to work... but there aren't!

The bottom line is this. The free market works. If as a business owner (risk taker) I tap into a market that the consumer is looking for, provide it in a way that pleases the consumer in a way that is better than other choices, and I meet their expectations )(or beat them).... then why does it matter to you what I or my employees choose to send our income on? As long as we do our job well and meet you needs then what we do with our income is none of your concern. In fact, an earlier post had it right that that is the business that you should want to be affiliated with.
This sums it up 100%. good job. I've never understood why so many parents seem to believe they have a right to regulate owner's charges. Take it or leave it!

I completely agree that owner's have the right to regulate and charge customer's what they want as far as monthly tuition for training and classes. And those customer's have the right to make a decision if the cost is worth what they are getting in return. That is the business side of owning a gym.

But when gym's use the non profit side for Competition entry fees and travel expenses, these should not be inflated. Thats is nickling and diming the parents.

Date: Wed May 7 8:02 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm an owner and I have coaches that drive new BMW, SUV, trucks and even moterhomes! And you know what? I glad that they can! And if I could charge more so that I could pay them more I would! But that is not how the market works. As with any business we are balancing our ability to pay employees with what we are able to charge the customer and in the end make as comfortable a living as possible.

If this market was hugely profitable, then there would be a cheer club on every corner (like Starbucks). But it is not.

If there were a ton of unemployed, knowledgeable and experienced cheer coaches looking for jobs then we would pay them less and they would all ride the bus to work... but there aren't!

The bottom line is this. The free market works. If as a business owner (risk taker) I tap into a market that the consumer is looking for, provide it in a way that pleases the consumer in a way that is better than other choices, and I meet their expectations )(or beat them).... then why does it matter to you what I or my employees choose to send our income on? As long as we do our job well and meet you needs then what we do with our income is none of your concern. In fact, an earlier post had it right that that is the business that you should want to be affiliated with.
This sums it up 100%. good job. I've never understood why so many parents seem to believe they have a right to regulate owner's charges. Take it or leave it!

I completely agree that owner's have the right to regulate and charge customer's what they want as far as monthly tuition for training and classes. And those customer's have the right to make a decision if the cost is worth what they are getting in return. That is the business side of owning a gym.

But when gym's use the non profit side for Competition entry fees and travel expenses, these should not be inflated. Thats is nickling and diming the parents.

who the bigger nickle and dimer, the gym owner or the parent that works at a bingo hall, earns an income (tax free I might add), travels at these competitions with the tax free money, has every thing covered for the cheerleader and themselves at every competition? Hummmm, kinda works both ways.