not a negative post

Date: Sun May 4 4:57 PM, 2008

RE: not a negative post

Date: Sun May 4 5:06 PM, 2008

SummerYearRound wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

To compete for the joy on a coaches face....to the possible detriment of health and school, is NOT admirable. This is cheer folks. I personally would rather my child be healthy and happy than working her butt off to please an abusive coach. But that's just me! (been there, done that, bought the t-shirts, no thanks)

You seem to be missing Alex's point completely. You see, sweat, tears, bruises, injuries, late nights...all of those things were not done just to make his coaches his happy...His coaches were the ones that promised them that in the end their hard work would be worth it. That hard work, perseverance, commitment, sacrifice, and many other things would lead them to something greater than a World Championship...these life lessons would be something that they would hold onto for the rest of their lives. I posted in "Leaving One gym to Go to Another" a few months ago, and I truly believe that this is what cheerleading is all about:

Teaching your children values such as teamwork, commitment, perseverance, loyalty, hard work etc...are all invaluable tools to help make them successful adults...isnt that what cheerleading is about, providing them with lifelong tools? Honestly, what kind of career will your daughter get with a full? Its all of the things she had to learn and do to get that full that will help her in life. Be sure to keep things in perspective and to put some serious VALUE on what is truly important...The development of your children.

You see, when they finished that routine I can just imagine that all those kids were thinking, "Our coaches were right, they were right all along" that's why the tears in their coaches eyes meant so much...Besides, what better way to learn these lifelong values than learning them doing the sport you love.

Alex,
Your eloquent words speak volumes to coaches and athletes alike. Sometimes parents dont understand our love for this crazy sportBut it is obvious that it has helped you, an incredible young man, gain lifelong tools and values that will use for the rest of your life, and that you are already using. Unlike some peopleyou get it. You are wise beyond your years. Congratulations and good luck to you!

-- Edited by SummerYearRound at 15:24, 2008-05-04

Very well said!

Date: Sun May 4 5:50 PM, 2008

As a parent, I always look to understand other perceptions on parenting. I saw this post as something that pushed my Mommy button. Isn't it possible that it simply comes down to differing priorities? I don't want my child to have to vomit and take abusive laungage from her coach to learn a life lesson. For me it is that simple. She is learning MUCH better life lessons now that she no longer cheers in that environment. She is also working just as hard on her own now! Interesting? I think so! Cheer is now about hard work and about how a positive approach and ethics can make hard work fun. I am happier with that. she is way too young (15) to vomit and feel that pressure. There are more ways than one to teach. I prefer the one she is currently learning under. Is it ok that I say that? If not, why?

Date: Sun May 4 6:08 PM, 2008

It's great that your team won the silver congratulations but abuse is abuse and that is abuse. It's teaching those girls on that team that it's okay to be yelled at and demeaned. Great I am happy that you are happy but I have been around that kind of coaching and NEVER AGAIN.

There was a coach at a comp who I overheard (not form CA or anywhere else in Cali) This coach cussed out his girls repeatedly for over an hour I KID YOU NOT.
Finally another coach from another gym went up to this coach and took him to the side for a small chat KUDOS TO THAT COACH.

It is not okay to tell your kids that they are worthless or that you will quit if they don't win or repeatedly telling them they suck.

oldcheermom · Senior Member

Some of you really crack me up! Next time I want to post something, maybe I should first ask for permission. I love it when people try to analyze what I really meant by what I said, or what my real motivation was, where I may have come from, who I might be, and if I'm bitter or possibly negative or not...oh well, can't please 'em all!

I stand by what I asked. It has certainly created some interesting discussion!

I also wish Alex the best in his life.

Date: Sun May 4 7:38 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

As a parent, I always look to understand other perceptions on parenting. I saw this post as something that pushed my Mommy button. Isn't it possible that it simply comes down to differing priorities? I don't want my child to have to vomit and take abusive laungage from her coach to learn a life lesson. For me it is that simple. She is learning MUCH better life lessons now that she no longer cheers in that environment. She is also working just as hard on her own now! Interesting? I think so! Cheer is now about hard work and about how a positive approach and ethics can make hard work fun. I am happier with that. she is way too young (15) to vomit and feel that pressure. There are more ways than one to teach. I prefer the one she is currently learning under. Is it ok that I say that? If not, why?

Please someone yell at me and do it alot Its okay if I vomit I need to drop 10 pounds in 3 weeks, start yelling!!!!!!

Date: Sun May 4 8:54 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As a parent, I always look to understand other perceptions on parenting. I saw this post as something that pushed my Mommy button. Isn't it possible that it simply comes down to differing priorities? I don't want my child to have to vomit and take abusive laungage from her coach to learn a life lesson. For me it is that simple. She is learning MUCH better life lessons now that she no longer cheers in that environment. She is also working just as hard on her own now! Interesting? I think so! Cheer is now about hard work and about how a positive approach and ethics can make hard work fun. I am happier with that. she is way too young (15) to vomit and feel that pressure. There are more ways than one to teach. I prefer the one she is currently learning under. Is it ok that I say that? If not, why?

Please someone yell at me and do it alot Its okay if I vomit I need to drop 10 pounds in 3 weeks, start yelling!!!!!!

me too!!!haha

Date: Sun May 4 9:13 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Oldcheermom I think you are completely out of line here. I can say as a cheerleader from a different gym, we all feel the way this kid does. We all practice our booties off. My practices didint go until ten at night but they did go until nine. Sure, kids got sick. I am sure a lot athletes miss meals as well. I can tell you I certainly did. Eating right before practice can contribute a ton to the throwing up during. Also, I would be a little worried if my coaches didnt drive my team and push us as hard as they could. It sounds weird, but the coaches are just as much a part of the team as the athletes. And I think everyone at some point in time wants to beat their coach to the ground especially when they say "one more time" and we have already performed that trick what seems to be a million times. Get over yourself. As a parent you should be mature enough to not bash other gyms.

Spoken like a true teenager! This athlete will understand your point of view someday when they grow up...

Date: Sun May 4 9:32 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Oldcheermom I think you are completely out of line here. I can say as a cheerleader from a different gym, we all feel the way this kid does. We all practice our booties off. My practices didint go until ten at night but they did go until nine. Sure, kids got sick. I am sure a lot athletes miss meals as well. I can tell you I certainly did. Eating right before practice can contribute a ton to the throwing up during. Also, I would be a little worried if my coaches didnt drive my team and push us as hard as they could. It sounds weird, but the coaches are just as much a part of the team as the athletes. And I think everyone at some point in time wants to beat their coach to the ground especially when they say "one more time" and we have already performed that trick what seems to be a million times. Get over yourself. As a parent you should be mature enough to not bash other gyms.

Spoken like a true teenager! This athlete will understand your point of view someday when they grow up...

but not today. The kids are obviously there for a reason. If they didnt like where they were at they would simply leave. They didnt leave, and they are having fun. if the kids idea of having fun is getting sick at practice and owning the competition floor at competition thats their business. Everyone has a different idea of fun. If these children dont feel they are being abused and their parents dont feel they are being abused, that their business.

Date: Sun May 4 10:05 PM, 2008

You know I completely agree with that. I think the majority of kids today would NOT participate in something that is not rewarding. I know kids who want to quit after one good workout at practice, so I truly admire kids who stay when it gets tough (and kids today are smart enough to know if a situation becomes abusive and it's time to leave). Let's give them a little more credit.

Alex · Member

Anonymous wrote:

As a parent, I always look to understand other perceptions on parenting. I saw this post as something that pushed my Mommy button. Isn't it possible that it simply comes down to differing priorities? I don't want my child to have to vomit and take abusive laungage from her coach to learn a life lesson. For me it is that simple. She is learning MUCH better life lessons now that she no longer cheers in that environment. She is also working just as hard on her own now! Interesting? I think so! Cheer is now about hard work and about how a positive approach and ethics can make hard work fun. I am happier with that. she is way too young (15) to vomit and feel that pressure. There are more ways than one to teach. I prefer the one she is currently learning under. Is it ok that I say that? If not, why?

i dont come on here THAT often but since i wanted to share those words i started to come on a lil more to see what people have said. at first glance reading this i was a lil offended; i felt a little hostility towards this post, but after reading it again, it is perfectly okay that you say that. the way I look at it is different strokes for different folks. you can of course raise your kid's the way you want to in a way that you feel is appropriate.

now the one thing i do not want misconstrued was the fact that you addressed you do not want your child to HAVE to throw up and take abusive language to learn a life lesson. I was not implying that we would not have learned some of the things we did if we had not thrown up. Rather i was almost being visual with my writing and sort of showing with what i had to say rather than just explaining if you kind of get what i feel. Now what i thought might have made me feel sort of attacked i guess you could say was that you said "she learns MUCH better life lessons now that she no longer cheers in that environment." I thought it was a little unfair for you to say the life lessons she is learning are MUCH better than the ones i have learned and i felt almost inferior in the way you put it, but i'm sure it was just the first time i read it. but again different strokes for different folks. its America, my parents raised me one way you can raise yours in another.

and to the the anonymous post after that, I am sorry if my original post seemed portrayed as abuse, but we are not abused. i can guarantee every single one of the 36 kids on that coed team have thought about and WANTED to get back on that floor. and yea u could say its abuse, but hey the pros train that hard, and yea u could say well most of us are children, but hey those children wanted to be world champs that bad. different strokes for different folks

and thank you to all the kind responses, they are much appreciated.

Date: Mon May 5 7:23 AM, 2008

Alex, I am grateful for gentleman like you. You've been honest. You've been humble. You've expressed gratitude - openly! - to your coaches. There's not one negative word on here that can be applied to you directly. You're right when you say "different strokes for different folks." And I hope my child takes the strokes that I have provided and runs with it the way you did. You make us all proud and keep us positive about the growth of our own kids.

Good luck to you and may you continue to have the open mind and gracious spirit that you've displayed with us over the weekend. Thank you for sharing. smile

Date: Mon May 5 7:27 AM, 2008

I wonder if these people complaining has ever seen other sports and how they (the good teams) practice. I don't know about you, but conditioning for three hours in 120 degree heat in the sun seems a little more abusive then what alex said. If you want real bad language come to my football practice. We get cussed out, thrown to the dirtm screamed at, and condition till we are ready to pass out. But the coaches always says if this is to hard, if you do not like our coaching, if you can't hang to be with the best you can always just get up and leave. There will be no hurt feelings we will just aknowledge that you just weren't ready to be the best.

Truley to be the best you need to work harder than everyone else out there. And if you think only one gym works like Alex does you are wrong. East Coast cheer teams are so good so well trained because they work just like Alex did. There is a reason the West Coast is so far behind the East. We sit here and bicker and complain about everything every gym does as the East Coast is to busy working their butt's off to even care what is happening in the gym down the street.

Date: Mon May 5 7:31 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

I wonder if these people complaining has ever seen other sports and how they (the good teams) practice. I don't know about you, but conditioning for three hours in 120 degree heat in the sun seems a little more abusive then what alex said. If you want real bad language come to my football practice. We get cussed out, thrown to the dirtm screamed at, and condition till we are ready to pass out. But the coaches always says if this is to hard, if you do not like our coaching, if you can't hang to be with the best you can always just get up and leave. There will be no hurt feelings we will just aknowledge that you just weren't ready to be the best.

Truley to be the best you need to work harder than everyone else out there. And if you think only one gym works like Alex does you are wrong. East Coast cheer teams are so good so well trained because they work just like Alex did. There is a reason the West Coast is so far behind the East. We sit here and bicker and complain about everything every gym does as the East Coast is to busy working their butt's off to even care what is happening in the gym down the street.

PREACH!!!! It's about choices. Choose another gym if Alex's doesnt work for you. If you wouldn't care to be there anyway and, therefore, don't - then the problem has been solved has it not?

As for parents who feel this is abusive, our Dear Alex has advised you that you have misconstrued his words. SO KNOCK IT OFF!!!

Date: Mon May 5 8:19 AM, 2008

Been there seen the abuse. It amazes me at what parents and kids will put up with to be part of a winning program. If they were treated like that by a girlfriend or boyfriend, you would have your kid run for the hills.

Date: Mon May 5 9:39 AM, 2008

I can guarantee you any other sport will have coaches that will push you... no pain no gain. We all have choices and members can choose to go to another gym. Comparing coaches to boyfriends/girlfriends is ridiculous. They are there to push you and to encourage you to do your best. If it's not for you, leave (or don't join), it really is that simple. It's cheerleading, not the military.

Date: Mon May 5 10:28 AM, 2008

Choice? We are talking KIDS!!! Is ANYONE familiar with the behaviors of abused kids? They constantly seek approval from their abusers. Textbook stuff. It is the parents who need to step in. But we are as falible as anyone and can lose sight of things in the thick of it all. I know I did. I will regret it forever. But if I can prevent someone else from making the same mistake I will! So rant and rave all you want. It's the kids who will suffer in the long run.

Amac · Veteran Member

as alex's older sister.. and someone who sat through MANY of his practices.. i will say that his coaches are in no way close to abusive.

i can see where "the mommy button" would kick on alex's post. there is a reason our mom never came to watch us practice! alex, kyle, and i are extremely competitive kids (young adults now i guess, we're almost 19, 19, and 21). growing up we all did competitive gymnastics (6 days a week at 5 hrs a day of practice, more in the summer time..), then they played football (double days in the middle of august..), then we all started competitive cheer. we know what it means to work hard, and we know what it takes to be a competitive athlete in a large variety of sports.

BUT.... back to the mommy button. it was and always has been OUR choice to participate in the sports we chose to participate in. we enjoy being pushed like that. the same way MANY professional/olympic athletes "enjoy" it. and yes.. many professional athletes young adults like us.

like my brother said.. different strokes for different folks. high level competitive sports are not for every family or every child. in cheer's case.. level's 1-3 are great outlets for maybe extremely talented kids who don't want to be pushed like that.. or its what recreational gymnastics is for.. or rec soccer and football where they don't keep score.

i'm defintely not saying there is anything wrong with rec. sports. so please, don't take what i said and twist it into "i'm bashing rec. sports..." or something. simply.. different strokes for different folks. and i'm just pointing out that while high level competitive sports may not be for every child or every family, there are other outlets for those kids and families to enjoy the sports without the extreme high levels of comitment and really rough practices.

ps.. alex i love you! and kyle too! and i'm so proud of what both of you have accomplished this year.. in school and at cheer!

Amac · Veteran Member

Anonymous wrote:

Choice? We are talking KIDS!!! Is ANYONE familiar with the behaviors of abused kids? They constantly seek approval from their abusers. Textbook stuff. It is the parents who need to step in. But we are as falible as anyone and can lose sight of things in the thick of it all. I know I did. I will regret it forever. But if I can prevent someone else from making the same mistake I will! So rant and rave all you want. It's the kids who will suffer in the long run.

and ps.. if you want to talk behavior of abused kids.. my family wrote the book. its not something we normally talk about.... but my family has done adoption and foster care for abused children since i was little. and now my brother and sister are both in college and both very capable of making their own decisions and for their OWN approval. alex wasn't seeking aproval of his coaches... he was simply expressing his gratitude. alex in no way expresses traits of an abused kid. we were never abused.. and i know first hand that there is a HUGE difference of actual abuse and being coached by tough coaches.

Date: Mon May 5 11:06 AM, 2008

Kids will suffer? How is this abusive in a parents eyes? A coach yells, or is pushing you to condition further; this is a sport, you push your limits. Some people need to realize cheerleading may not be a walk in the park, but coaches arent making it an ironman or a marathon.

It seems like some parents get offended or mad if their kid didnt have the best practice, or is tired like no other, but i do not see Coach A coaching little 6 year old tawnie, weighing in at 50 pounds, making her run around the building twice and than lining up her routine where she throws 20 double fulls in it. Most of the teams that push the limits and are "approaching abuse" are the kids who signed up for that. Almost ALWAYS, almost, kids are put in the right level and right team to their ability and what they can "hack" if you want to put it in that terms. If you want to be a world champion, you will train like a world champion. If you want to learn a backhandspring, or just have a fun filled year, wou'll probably be on a level 2 team. Do you see the difference? If i offended anyone in any way i apologize, i just feel like some ppl dont take it into fact that some ppl live for what alex has brought up in his words. Cheers to you alex and good luck to everyone in this up and coming season.