World's Fix

Date: Tue Mar 11 10:29 PM, 2008

World's Fix

AirborneOwner · GURU

I think some of these ideas are good, but just allowing teams to register you would definetly see more teams that the ones that recieve at large bids. Due to the fact that you cannot pass down at large bids after the competition you are seeing less teams attend this year, if you look at the USASF bid section on the site you will see less teams are listed this year.

Marlon · Veteran Member

i think that there shouldnt be any at large bids. if a company wants to give away 6 paid bids at 25k each, then so be it....or if they only want to give a partial of 5k, thats fine. It is at the companies discretion on who gets the bid as it is, so why not let them choose who they want to pay for to represent them at Worlds?! Its not like the usasf gives that money for the bids....the company has to. i.e. if Company A wants to give 4 paid bids at 25k to each level 5 team that wins their division AND 4 partials of 5k each to the runner up, well thats doesnt sound too shaby, and the company decides what/who they are spending their money on. all this "you must have atleast 100 teams to qualify in a certain tier to be able to give whatever bid" is kind of crazy! because then you have comapany Uno that gives out 2 paid and 4 at-large bids when the year before didnt have enough, and then company 2 that is only alllowed 1 partial and 1 at large..but yet had the same amount of teams as uno the year beforre. hmmmm....doest seem fair....oh...and i think it is great that all teams should HAVE to compete in prelims in order to make finals! This sport is about being consistent and true athletes will be able to have two great performances.

-- Edited by Marlon at 00:05, 2008-03-12

AirborneOwner · GURU

Agreed about the prelim situation. I also agree that it should be to the discretion of the company how they give the bids out, I think that being able to chose how many paid and partial you want to give as a company should be up to them. Meaning that if GSSA wants to pay for 4 teams to go to worlds than so be it. I think that if you take away the at large bids then it will turn into companies giving one or two thousand dollars for partial bids. It would turn back into what people are not liking about the At large bids.

Date: Wed Mar 12 4:48 AM, 2008

Marlon wrote:

i think that there shouldnt be any at large bids. if a company wants to give away 6 paid bids at 25k each, then so be it....or if they only want to give a partial of 5k, thats fine. It is at the companies discretion on who gets the bid as it is, so why not let them choose who they want to pay for to represent them at Worlds?! Its not like the usasf gives that money for the bids....the company has to. i.e. if Company A wants to give 4 paid bids at 25k to each level 5 team that wins their division AND 4 partials of 5k each to the runner up, well thats doesnt sound too shaby, and the company decides what/who they are spending their money on. all this "you must have atleast 100 teams to qualify in a certain tier to be able to give whatever bid" is kind of crazy! because then you have comapany Uno that gives out 2 paid and 4 at-large bids when the year before didnt have enough, and then company 2 that is only alllowed 1 partial and 1 at large..but yet had the same amount of teams as uno the year beforre. hmmmm....doest seem fair....oh...and i think it is great that all teams should HAVE to compete in prelims in order to make finals! This sport is about being consistent and true athletes will be able to have two great performances.

-- Edited by Marlon at 00:05, 2008-03-12

So, is the rub that not enough teams are getting paid bids and therefore may not go if they just get an at-large? Are they hoping to just send the best of the best by doing things the way that they are?

Date: Wed Mar 12 7:56 AM, 2008

alot of teams that do receive at large bids can not afford the expensive cost of the trip.

Date: Wed Mar 12 8:06 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

alot of teams that do receive at large bids can not afford the expensive cost of the trip.

this is where i agree with changing the venue every 2-3 years.. its not fair to teams on the west coast who have a lot more money for travel then the ones on the east... for example top gun... love the team.. but they live in flordia.. that makes travel pretty easy for them send them to cali across the country.

Date: Wed Mar 12 8:18 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

alot of teams that do receive at large bids can not afford the expensive cost of the trip.

Agreed, look at Spirit of Texas small all girl. Probably one of the best, if not the best program in the country and not going. This year, the team numbers are down due to having less at large bids and not passing them down. There is more international teams competing at national events, but some don't make it to worlds due to financial constraints or just schedule conflicts.

Date: Wed Mar 12 9:03 AM, 2008

My point of view:

At large bids needs to be removed. As stated above, some teams can't afford to go but there are teams who are choosing to raise the money and attend worlds. From my understanding, 2/3 of the teams who have at large bids don't make it past prelims.

I think USASF needs to involve all levels. By only including level 5, they are causing the cheer world to become this "ONLY LEVEL 5" thing. Just look at this board. All everyone talks about is level 5 teams and worlds. Start involving other levels. Some kids don't get to level 5, that is unfair.

Diva Coach Melissa · Senior Member

Marlon wrote:

i think that there shouldnt be any at large bids. if a company wants to give away 6 paid bids at 25k each, then so be it....or if they only want to give a partial of 5k, thats fine.

I agree with this, NO handing down of bids, period. I do agree with whoever said that 6th place out of 6 teams should not really be deserving of a Worlds bid just because 1-5 already have one. Make it a "top" however many with a minimum score or something, whatever. If only 3 crack that score, then only 3 bids go out.

I also think teams should be allowed to earn more than one partial paid bid. Bear with me...

So a paid bid is $25k. Let's say a partial is $10k. Allow a team to earn a partial twice - or even three times, up to $25k. Make them still go through prelims but at least allow them to choose to "earn" their funds to get there. If they earn it twice or three times, they earned the cash, let them use it, up to a certain amount.

As far as letting the event producers do what they want with the bids...that's what they do now....GSSA has the Super Six (and others have similar), some give it to the top however many scores, period, regardless of the division...some give it to the winner of each L5 division and then go down the scores from there....etc. The event producers currently have the discretion to give their bids to whoever they see fit, regardless of scores, placements, etc. They could draw names out of a hat and it would still be kosher with USASF because USASF gives them that discretion.

Another thought I had is switching to a points system. Instead of earning bids, make it like the BCS with a computerized system that assigns points based on placements, strength of competition, etc, and then at the end of the season take the top 20 (or whatever) in each division and there's Worlds.

I don't know, there's lots of different ways to go about it but I think overall the solution has to be making it more prestigious and harder to get into, not less.

-- Edited by Diva Coach Melissa at 15:53, 2008-03-12

Date: Wed Mar 12 2:11 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

My point of view:

At large bids needs to be removed. As stated above, some teams can't afford to go but there are teams who are choosing to raise the money and attend worlds. From my understanding, 2/3 of the teams who have at large bids don't make it past prelims.

I think USASF needs to involve all levels. By only including level 5, they are causing the cheer world to become this "ONLY LEVEL 5" thing. Just look at this board. All everyone talks about is level 5 teams and worlds. Start involving other levels. Some kids don't get to level 5, that is unfair.

Isn't that planned for next year?

Date: Wed Mar 12 2:51 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

I think USASF needs to involve all levels. By only including level 5, they are causing the cheer world to become this "ONLY LEVEL 5" thing. Just look at this board. All everyone talks about is level 5 teams and worlds. Start involving other levels. Some kids don't get to level 5, that is unfair.

Sure, let's have some Elementary School Pop Warner Football teams in the SuperBowl while we are at it. Why should that just include NFL teams? There are some good junior high and junior varsity football teams that would have fun if we let them in too. That wouldn't take away from the prestige at all. I'm sure the ratings would be just a big, too.

Date: Wed Mar 12 6:24 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think USASF needs to involve all levels. By only including level 5, they are causing the cheer world to become this "ONLY LEVEL 5" thing. Just look at this board. All everyone talks about is level 5 teams and worlds. Start involving other levels. Some kids don't get to level 5, that is unfair.

Sure, let's have some Elementary School Pop Warner Football teams in the SuperBowl while we are at it. Why should that just include NFL teams? There are some good junior high and junior varsity football teams that would have fun if we let them in too. That wouldn't take away from the prestige at all. I'm sure the ratings would be just a big, too.

U CANNOT COMPARE NFL CHEER TO WORLDS. They have a great point. Don't under estimate the lower levels. I am guessing you are apart of a gym who thrives on their best teams and shoves the lower teams in the corner. NICE! U might as well say, hey, level 1-4, u suck!

Date: Wed Mar 12 8:28 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think USASF needs to involve all levels. By only including level 5, they are causing the cheer world to become this "ONLY LEVEL 5" thing. Just look at this board. All everyone talks about is level 5 teams and worlds. Start involving other levels. Some kids don't get to level 5, that is unfair.

Sure, let's have some Elementary School Pop Warner Football teams in the SuperBowl while we are at it. Why should that just include NFL teams? There are some good junior high and junior varsity football teams that would have fun if we let them in too. That wouldn't take away from the prestige at all. I'm sure the ratings would be just a big, too.

U CANNOT COMPARE NFL CHEER TO WORLDS. They have a great point. Don't under estimate the lower levels. I am guessing you are apart of a gym who thrives on their best teams and shoves the lower teams in the corner. NICE! U might as well say, hey, level 1-4, u suck!

WELL SAID!!!! i totally agree with you about having other levels at worlds its unfair to the 1-4... they work just as hard they just arent as experienced.. put the same time and effort into it... thats why if you havent heard... theres a new company put on a competition in Virginia Beach in May pretty much like a worlds but for all levels. YOU STILL NEED A BID TO GO! pretty much i think everyone should just start going to this .. different then flordia.. would pretty much screw over USASF with the new rules there trying to give. i think its a good idea

Date: Wed Mar 12 8:44 PM, 2008

Diva Coach Melissa wrote:

Marlon wrote:

i think that there shouldnt be any at large bids. if a company wants to give away 6 paid bids at 25k each, then so be it....or if they only want to give a partial of 5k, thats fine.

I agree with this, NO handing down of bids, period. I do agree with whoever said that 6th place out of 6 teams should not really be deserving of a Worlds bid just because 1-5 already have one. Make it a "top" however many with a minimum score or something, whatever. If only 3 crack that score, then only 3 bids go out.

I also think teams should be allowed to earn more than one partial paid bid. Bear with me...

So a paid bid is $25k. Let's say a partial is $10k. Allow a team to earn a partial twice - or even three times, up to $25k. Make them still go through prelims but at least allow them to choose to "earn" their funds to get there. If they earn it twice or three times, they earned the cash, let them use it, up to a certain amount.

As far as letting the event producers do what they want with the bids...that's what they do now....GSSA has the Super Six (and others have similar), some give it to the top however many scores, period, regardless of the division...some give it to the winner of each L5 division and then go down the scores from there....etc. The event producers currently have the discretion to give their bids to whoever they see fit, regardless of scores, placements, etc. They could draw names out of a hat and it would still be kosher with USASF because USASF gives them that discretion.

Another thought I had is switching to a points system. Instead of earning bids, make it like the BCS with a computerized system that assigns points based on placements, strength of competition, etc, and then at the end of the season take the top 20 (or whatever) in each division and there's Worlds.

I don't know, there's lots of different ways to go about it but I think overall the solution has to be making it more prestigious and harder to get into, not less.

-- Edited by Diva Coach Melissa at 15:53, 2008-03-12

Those were a lot of interesting and great ideas and then I felt myself cringe at the BCS thing.

Lets not replace one extremely flawed system with another.

I seriously want to punch whoever came up with the BCS system.
Seriously.

Date: Wed Mar 12 9:11 PM, 2008

What's the BCS system?

Date: Wed Mar 12 9:14 PM, 2008

There shouldn't even be a worlds comp. All it is a money maker and a regular comp. The more at large bids they give away the more money they make. Let's keep the money in california and plan something big where all california teams can come together compete and have fun getting to know each other. That would be a refreshing experience.

Date: Wed Mar 12 9:26 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

My point of view:

I think USASF needs to involve all levels. By only including level 5, they are causing the cheer world to become this "ONLY LEVEL 5" thing. Just look at this board. All everyone talks about is level 5 teams and worlds. Start involving other levels. Some kids don't get to level 5, that is unfair.

Why are we so fixated on what's fair? What is so unfair about not allowing levels 1-4 to compete at Worlds? Worlds is supposed to be the Best of the Best. Not the best of the ok. Or the best of the pretty good. Best of the BEST.

If level 1-4 wants a "Worlds-like" competition, then they can go to Final Destination. I am so tired of everyone thinking that all levels need to be treated exactly alike. Whatever sport does that? You can tell this is a girl oriented sports, because male oriented sports are not worried about coddling the boys to make them feel good.

Cheerleading will never be taken seriously by the outside world because there are too many whiners.

Date: Wed Mar 12 9:38 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My point of view:

I think USASF needs to involve all levels. By only including level 5, they are causing the cheer world to become this "ONLY LEVEL 5" thing. Just look at this board. All everyone talks about is level 5 teams and worlds. Start involving other levels. Some kids don't get to level 5, that is unfair.

Why are we so fixated on what's fair? What is so unfair about not allowing levels 1-4 to compete at Worlds? Worlds is supposed to be the Best of the Best. Not the best of the ok. Or the best of the pretty good. Best of the BEST.

If level 1-4 wants a "Worlds-like" competition, then they can go to Final Destination. I am so tired of everyone thinking that all levels need to be treated exactly alike. Whatever sport does that? You can tell this is a girl oriented sports, because male oriented sports are not worried about coddling the boys to make them feel good.

Cheerleading will never be taken seriously by the outside world because there are too many whiners.

I agree, but take it a little further. Every level 5 team does NOT belong at Worlds. If you didn't get a bid, move on, work harder for next year, and keep up on the teams that got the bids and are going.

Date: Wed Mar 12 10:25 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My point of view:

I think USASF needs to involve all levels. By only including level 5, they are causing the cheer world to become this "ONLY LEVEL 5" thing. Just look at this board. All everyone talks about is level 5 teams and worlds. Start involving other levels. Some kids don't get to level 5, that is unfair.

Why are we so fixated on what's fair? What is so unfair about not allowing levels 1-4 to compete at Worlds? Worlds is supposed to be the Best of the Best. Not the best of the ok. Or the best of the pretty good. Best of the BEST.

If level 1-4 wants a "Worlds-like" competition, then they can go to Final Destination. I am so tired of everyone thinking that all levels need to be treated exactly alike. Whatever sport does that? You can tell this is a girl oriented sports, because male oriented sports are not worried about coddling the boys to make them feel good.

Cheerleading will never be taken seriously by the outside world because there are too many whiners.

I agree, but take it a little further. Every level 5 team does NOT belong at Worlds. If you didn't get a bid, move on, work harder for next year, and keep up on the teams that got the bids and are going.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!! For those posts.

My Forever long feelings on this topic smile

As far as bids go there are teams who could receive partial or even paid bids and not be able to afford the trip. Unless you receive a paid bid for a Small team (20 or less members) regardless of where your team is from you are recieving enough money to get your team to Worlds without additional costs. As far as teams who recieve paid bids for a large team I would assume/guess that the only teams that come from the Deep South (Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama and Mississippi) are the only teams in the nation who don't have to shell out extra money for the trip to Worlds. People hear Paid Bid and think Free trip this idea is so not true, ask any team in West of the Mississippi River who revceived a Paid Bid to Worlds if the trip was paid they will deffinately tell you no. This is why I do think that Worlds needs to start rotating venues; unfortunately I think it would be hard to find a venue that has the accommodations the come with the Milk House and Disney World. Now a better argument for not handing out At Large bids would probably be that "2/3 of the teams that receive them do not make it out of prelims" (quoted from earlier post). But if that statistic is true then it definitely goes with my opinion that Worlds is a competition that should be for the elite teams and athletes of our sport. If we want our sport to be considered legitimate then we need to have a place where only the elite teams and athletes compete against each other. Thus having no reason to involve all the other levels, this is why you don't see level 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and not even all level 9 elite gymnast make the Olympics. Let's be real people Worlds should not be a competition to go to just for "the experience" you have plenty of other large National Competitions that you can attend for that. Put it this way, Fotball players dream of being in the Super Bowl, Baseball Players the World Series and gymnast the Olympics not all the althletes in these sports get to experience the feeling of competing on the great stages of thier sport and thats why competitive Cheerleaders should dream of being able to compete at Worlds it's what makes experiencing and winning it so special. If an athlete dreams of being on that level or that high level competitive stage they should be getting in the gym putting in the effort and working hard to earn their way there. It is also my opinion I think the USASF should be coming up with a score sheet that is required to be used at every USASF event and more specifically for those teams in Worlds divisions. Then they need to come up with a minimum score that must be achieved to earn a bid which would kill the idea of bids being passed along at competitions, like GSSA had to do at Super Six this year. (note this was not under the passing down of a bid claus that everyone seems to be so confused about) However, Yes this might mean that a company may not be able to hand out bid, but that just helps make the Worlds that much harder to get to and much more of a prestigious event.