Can anyone clarify if USA messed up on their handouts of bids?

Date: Thu Mar 6 10:59 AM, 2008

Can anyone clarify if USA messed up on their handouts of bids?

Date: Thu Mar 6 12:17 PM, 2008

From what I understand...

USA as usual did NOT do any research into what gyms had bids and where they recd them from. At the awards ceremony they handded out bids as if no one had previously recd a bid.

When American and Charlotte told them after Awards they had already recd BIDS, USA said quote " would evaluate the videos and determine whom would get the at-large bids" They were not going to make a descision until this week which just so happened to be after GSSA.

So yes... It should have been Awarded to teams last week previous to GSSA. This may and I say may have had an impact at GSSA, and maybe just maybe Stars Extreme would have recd one from USA, which would have resulted in NCE getting the at-large from GSSA. As we all know USA sat on this issue for over a week, which has caused the current situation. I want to take nothing away from those gyms that did receive the bid. Congrats... But should the outcome have been different?

We will never know what could have or should have happend, but one thing is for sure. USA has once again proven why they have gone from top dog on the west coast to just another cheerleading company on its way down...

GREAT JOB USA!

BTW I am not from NCE LOL, far from it, but I do beleive they have a right to know why USA handled things the way they did. Fair is fair.

Date: Thu Mar 6 12:42 PM, 2008

I agree, I had called the USA office prior to the GSSA competition. Granted it did not end up mattering as we did not make it to the Super Six, but its true that if they would of moved on this quicker it would of been a different outcome for NCE Coed. I cant imagine that some of the all girl teams that we are discussing out scored the coed teams we are disscussing and since they do not release scores we will not know. This type of mistake really does effect anyone that comes across those teams. Its like six degrees of seperation. For example:

South Elite did not get a bid at USA on the weekend of the event.
They traveled to Vancouver and recieved a Partial Paid Bid . Now they were given another at Large at USA after the fact? That does not make sense. Now whoever is after South Elite on the USA list will get the at large bid? If that is Stars Extreme That would of given the bid at GSSA to Nor Cal Coed.

So now you see it trickle down to teams that have no control over what occured or did not occur in the office of USA. So where does that at large bid that South Elite does not need?

I want to know, and I would pressume anyone that placed below Victory Cheer wants to know.

Nicole
Airborne

Date: Thu Mar 6 12:46 PM, 2008

I happen to think that is the only way you can get a bid is if the other 5 teams ahead of you already have bids we have a sad sad situation on our hands. The not passing down of bids was a good start so why has this still happened. All the comps are at the end of the year is a hand down fest! If you didnt place high enough to actually get the bid then you dont deserve it...period!

Date: Thu Mar 6 12:48 PM, 2008

I'm sorry, this makes no sense at all. How could USA not know who already had bids before handing them out???? GSSA knew. Is it that hard to research or to find out in advance who already has them? Did their incompetence really cheat NCE Coed out of a bid at GSSA?

Date: Thu Mar 6 12:54 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

I happen to think that is the only way you can get a bid is if the other 5 teams ahead of you already have bids we have a sad sad situation on our hands. The not passing down of bids was a good start so why has this still happened. All the comps are at the end of the year is a hand down fest! If you didnt place high enough to actually get the bid then you dont deserve it...period!

It is not the fault of NCE nor Stars Extreme that the other teams in super six already had bids. Who is to say that they did not outscore some of those teams. We will not know since their was not a score sheet. The passing down of bids that is not happening this year is after the fact, not at the competition.

Date: Thu Mar 6 12:59 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I happen to think that is the only way you can get a bid is if the other 5 teams ahead of you already have bids we have a sad sad situation on our hands. The not passing down of bids was a good start so why has this still happened. All the comps are at the end of the year is a hand down fest! If you didnt place high enough to actually get the bid then you dont deserve it...period!

It is not the fault of NCE nor Stars Extreme that the other teams in super six already had bids. Who is to say that they did not outscore some of those teams. We will not know since their was not a score sheet. The passing down of bids that is not happening this year is after the fact, not at the competition.

Agree. And the point is that all competitions have to follow THE SAME RULES. Why is USA allowed to get away with not knowing who already had bids, while GSSA played by the rules and knew exactly who had bids. Competition companies have to be consistent. It isn't fair that some were awarded the appropriate bids because they happen to be at competitions that were organized. Gyms should not be penalized because of inconsistencies between competitions.

Date: Thu Mar 6 1:38 PM, 2008

I am sorry, but to all these teams getting passed down bids, and running to these small out of state comps to get bids, IMO.. if you can't place high enough at the comps around here giving bids or at the huge NCA's, then you are not a Worlds level team yet. IMO it would be very hard on a team to get to worlds and not even make it thru to finals. Yes, it IS an awesome experience, and there is much to be learned. it is very exspensive for these teams on the At large bids. Do those parents realize what they are getting into? Are they under the impression they will come away with a win? Some of these gym owners are so set on getting to Worlds for the bragging rights, but is it fair to those athletes? Are those teams really going for the experience to see what it takes to be a Worlds level team?
I thought at large bids weren't to be passed down this year? By reading this thread, 3rd, 4th, 5th place and lower are getting bids. The more the merrier at Worlds, but hopefully these teams are going with realistic expectations..sure there are always the "unknown team" stories, but this year the depth of talent in each division is insane!

Good luck, follow your dreams!

Date: Thu Mar 6 2:17 PM, 2008

What everyone needs to remember is that even though a gym gets an at-large bid, most of the time they are still going to try for a full paid bid. THat's why a lot of cheer gyms stay in the race all the way up till nationals. Once they receive a full paid bid is when they leave the race. That's why the competition stays so intense. It's at that point when all the "handing down" begins. Also when a team gets a bid and they get the same kind at another comp (at-large, partial paid, etc.) is when they can hand down a bid.

Date: Thu Mar 6 2:26 PM, 2008

No one is running away . We have had our competition schedule set since last May. No one knows who will show up at each competition. Also, of course our families within our level 5 program know how much it will cost if we get a bid. You have your opinions and we have ours. I hope that the program you are from has recieved a paid or partial bid, because according to your statements no one else deserves to go. I hope you guys make finals, I would want to see you turn into a hypocrit.

Date: Thu Mar 6 2:37 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

No one is running away . We have had our competition schedule set since last May. No one knows who will show up at each competition. Also, of course our families within our level 5 program know how much it will cost if we get a bid. You have your opinions and we have ours. I hope that the program you are from has recieved a paid or partial bid, because according to your statements no one else deserves to go. I hope you guys make finals, I would want to see you turn into a hypocrit.

We hope you get a bid too. IMO though if you have placed 6th and the only reason you are getting a bid is because all 5 other teams have some form of a bid then in actuality you did not earn it. The way things are going now and this totally makes the other thread that called worlds just another level 5 competition make sense. I completely agree that if all teams at the competition have bids then that company can decide who should get the bid if anybody. Win it outright and there will be no ?'s asked, place higher than the other 5 teams in your level and take it outright. Thats the way it should go!

All teams have to bring it to the floor in the end....so good luck!

Date: Thu Mar 6 2:55 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No one is running away . We have had our competition schedule set since last May. No one knows who will show up at each competition. Also, of course our families within our level 5 program know how much it will cost if we get a bid. You have your opinions and we have ours. I hope that the program you are from has recieved a paid or partial bid, because according to your statements no one else deserves to go. I hope you guys make finals, I would want to see you turn into a hypocrit.

We hope you get a bid too. IMO though if you have placed 6th and the only reason you are getting a bid is because all 5 other teams have some form of a bid then in actuality you did not earn it. The way things are going now and this totally makes the other thread that called worlds just another level 5 competition make sense. I completely agree that if all teams at the competition have bids then that company can decide who should get the bid if anybody. Win it outright and there will be no ?'s asked, place higher than the other 5 teams in your level and take it outright. Thats the way it should go!

All teams have to bring it to the floor in the end....so good luck!

I agree but if the bid handout was done differently at gssa I dont think everyone would of noticed as much. Meaning that if there was no super six and Stars Extreme got a bid by placing second to All American it would not be discussed as much because the other 3 or 4 teams would not even be a deciding factor.

Tamara · cheergyms.com Master Poster

Anonymous wrote:
We hope you get a bid too. IMO though if you have placed 6th and the only reason you are getting a bid is because all 5 other teams have some form of a bid then in actuality you did not earn it. The way things are going now and this totally makes the other thread that called worlds just another level 5 competition make sense. I completely agree that if all teams at the competition have bids then that company can decide who should get the bid if anybody. Win it outright and there will be no ?'s asked, place higher than the other 5 teams in your level and take it outright. Thats the way it should go!

All teams have to bring it to the floor in the end....so good luck!

I'm not feeling well and my head is a little fuzzy, so please excuse me if I'm totally misunderstanding this, but...isn't the sentence I've bolded exactly what currently happens at bid awarding competitions? In this case the 1-4th placed teams already had a bid, so the company decided who should get the bid?

Date: Thu Mar 6 3:47 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

I am sorry, but to all these teams getting passed down bids, and running to these small out of state comps to get bids, IMO.. if you can't place high enough at the comps around here giving bids or at the huge NCA's, then you are not a Worlds level team yet. IMO it would be very hard on a team to get to worlds and not even make it thru to finals. Yes, it IS an awesome experience, and there is much to be learned. it is very exspensive for these teams on the At large bids. Do those parents realize what they are getting into? Are they under the impression they will come away with a win? Some of these gym owners are so set on getting to Worlds for the bragging rights, but is it fair to those athletes? Are those teams really going for the experience to see what it takes to be a Worlds level team?
I thought at large bids weren't to be passed down this year? By reading this thread, 3rd, 4th, 5th place and lower are getting bids. The more the merrier at Worlds, but hopefully these teams are going with realistic expectations..sure there are always the "unknown team" stories, but this year the depth of talent in each division is insane!

Good luck, follow your dreams!

WHAT'S YOUR ISSUE??? DID YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WHEN TOP GUN (I believe it was Large) SENIOR TEAM LEFT THEIR STATE AND CAME TO VEGAS A COUPLE YEARS AGO TO GET THEIR BID?????? Probably NOT! RIGHT!?!??! If these teams want to travel to get a bid, it's really NOT your business...

AirborneOwner · GURU

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am sorry, but to all these teams getting passed down bids, and running to these small out of state comps to get bids, IMO.. if you can't place high enough at the comps around here giving bids or at the huge NCA's, then you are not a Worlds level team yet. IMO it would be very hard on a team to get to worlds and not even make it thru to finals. Yes, it IS an awesome experience, and there is much to be learned. it is very exspensive for these teams on the At large bids. Do those parents realize what they are getting into? Are they under the impression they will come away with a win? Some of these gym owners are so set on getting to Worlds for the bragging rights, but is it fair to those athletes? Are those teams really going for the experience to see what it takes to be a Worlds level team?
I thought at large bids weren't to be passed down this year? By reading this thread, 3rd, 4th, 5th place and lower are getting bids. The more the merrier at Worlds, but hopefully these teams are going with realistic expectations..sure there are always the "unknown team" stories, but this year the depth of talent in each division is insane!

Good luck, follow your dreams!

WHAT'S YOUR ISSUE??? DID YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WHEN TOP GUN (I believe it was Large) SENIOR TEAM LEFT THEIR STATE AND CAME TO VEGAS A COUPLE YEARS AGO TO GET THEIR BID?????? Probably NOT! RIGHT!?!??! If these teams want to travel to get a bid, it's really NOT your business...

I agree. If we were running away we would not of shown up to compete against our local teams and we would of not gone to Palm Springs. These are kids we are talking about, dont come on here and downplay their hard work or the competition schedule that they keep. If you have a bid why do you care if others get one or not. If you are not a level 5 cheerleader, that type of attitude will never get you to the level you want to be at. 50% of success is from attitude. Re- Read your post and think of the way you are coming across, if you are involved in cheer you know that it takes hard work. Respect the work of others.

Date: Thu Mar 6 10:09 PM, 2008

Real quick, nobody said anything backstage at USA Nationals about already receiving bids and why were they given one. I just happened to head back there to listen to what was going on just because I'm nosey.

Have any of you heard official word from either of the teams who received bid "duplicates" that they didn't want the USA bid? nope

Date: Fri Mar 7 1:41 AM, 2008

Victory did indeed score higher than fusion and stars extreme, which is why they recieved the bid.

Date: Fri Mar 7 2:32 AM, 2008

But then how did Fusion place above Victory? Did USA mess up on the awards ceremony then?

flipkidjudge · Senior Member

AirborneOwner wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am sorry, but to all these teams getting passed down bids, and running to these small out of state comps to get bids, IMO.. if you can't place high enough at the comps around here giving bids or at the huge NCA's, then you are not a Worlds level team yet. IMO it would be very hard on a team to get to worlds and not even make it thru to finals. Yes, it IS an awesome experience, and there is much to be learned. it is very exspensive for these teams on the At large bids. Do those parents realize what they are getting into? Are they under the impression they will come away with a win? Some of these gym owners are so set on getting to Worlds for the bragging rights, but is it fair to those athletes? Are those teams really going for the experience to see what it takes to be a Worlds level team?
I thought at large bids weren't to be passed down this year? By reading this thread, 3rd, 4th, 5th place and lower are getting bids. The more the merrier at Worlds, but hopefully these teams are going with realistic expectations..sure there are always the "unknown team" stories, but this year the depth of talent in each division is insane!

Good luck, follow your dreams!

WHAT'S YOUR ISSUE??? DID YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WHEN TOP GUN (I believe it was Large) SENIOR TEAM LEFT THEIR STATE AND CAME TO VEGAS A COUPLE YEARS AGO TO GET THEIR BID?????? Probably NOT! RIGHT!?!??! If these teams want to travel to get a bid, it's really NOT your business...

I agree. If we were running away we would not of shown up to compete against our local teams and we would of not gone to Palm Springs. These are kids we are talking about, dont come on here and downplay their hard work or the competition schedule that they keep. If you have a bid why do you care if others get one or not. If you are not a level 5 cheerleader, that type of attitude will never get you to the level you want to be at. 50% of success is from attitude. Re- Read your post and think of the way you are coming across, if you are involved in cheer you know that it takes hard work. Respect the work of others.

Airborne Coach,

I agree with you completely. I do not get why people come on any of these boards and slam the kids for following their coaches instructions and the competition schedule that was chosen. I wonder do they bombard USASF and Varsity message boards with all this...oh wait...never mind. biggrin

Every one chooses comps for different reasons...outsiders usually have no clue. Our gym gets slammed for not attending major comps all year long. However the people who come to our gym could care less about NCA or World's so why shove it down their throat that they are "nothing or not the best" unless they go there, compete and win? They way we travel it makes no sense to go to many of these major competetions. but to say we are scared to compete agianst "better" teams is an outright lie. If we wanted a bid, all we had to do was bid shop to get one...wait to the last minute, pay a late registration fee and go to a comp would would not normally have gone to. Because that goes against our gym philosophy as traveling as a team..every team from Minis to Senior and every level from 2-5 (we don't have level 1 teams..yet...lol) to all competitions, we typically only go to one bid comp a year. But again an outsider would not know that. All they see is we don't go.

The poster you replied to really has an issue with USASF and the bids process. That is where the venom should directed, not the kids who worked hard, the parents who believed, all that did what their coaches told them and got a bid. i don't care if it is full, partial or at-large...a bid is a bid! it is an invitation to perform with this country's best Level 5 teams at this premier Cheerleading Event. Maybe the get skunked, in prelims..maybe they just barely make it out, maybe they come in last place, or maybe they do better than anyone gives them credit for. No matter what there will be more Level 5 teams at home than at World's. Now if he/she does not believe smaller comps should not be able to hand out bids...then deal with USASF on that.

I have said this before. The World's competition is a sport. The process to get there is a business. The followingare possible business questions:

From USASF/Varsity's side of business

Who can hand out the bids?
What/who does that competition have to offer us to make this worth our time, effort and money to enter into such an agreement...regardless if it is a merger, partnership or shh..hush hush..wink wink.
What qualifies them (the competition comapny) to hand out the bid?
When bids will be offered.
What type of bids will we allow them to offer and how many?
How do we pay for this event (World's)in lieu of the fact we are giving away free trips to some of the teams?
How do we compensate for those who may receive a bid but not accept for whatever reason?
How can we make this event (World's) a draw to reach out to the gyms who either may not be a part of USASF or is not yet bitten with the "we must get a World's bid or our entire program sucks big time bug?"

Then you have the business side for the competition companies:

How can I draw more revenue to my competition?
Can I even survive in the ever changing All Star world without being connected to USASF and via extension Varsity?
Why even be a part of USASF (competitiom company) if I can not hand out a bid?
Offering bids will ensure that my competition will get greater notice from teams on the World's circuit.
If they come to my competition, then they will draw by extension other programs who want to compete against them, or fans who just want to see them.
If it works out properly, the investment paid to USASF to be able to hand out a bid, will be returned to me in entry fees and crossover fees.

Then you have the business side from the gyms themselves:

Do we have a Level 5 Team as defined by USASF...not by the AOATC.
Do we have a team that deserves the opportunity to attempt to get a World's bid?
Do I want to go through that process knowing that I also bring that team and the whole gym through that process with me?
What does qualifying for or attending World's do for my program and my kids as a whole and is this a sacrifice I want to take on at this stage of my gym's development since I will be asking these parents, some of whom are on scholarship and can not affors it to come up with World's type of money.
What kind of money am i willing to spend on this quest?
How far am I willing to travel on this quest?

I could come up with a whole lot more business reasons for each of the above and even extend them to the kids and the parents. I also could come up with potential answers but I have not had my tea yet and my answers may not be taken kindly...rofl.

However for me it still comes back to this:

Stop using sporting arguements against business issues. They don't work.

Stop blaming coaches/kids for going to competitions you don't think are big enough.

Competition companies don't know until the last minute who is really coming to their event...usually after the venue has been paid for, so you can't cancel because the big teams or a lot of teams don't show up.

Change the bid process through USASF. It can be fixed in numerous ways but every way to fix it would cost too much to USASF/Varsity. For right now that is.

If a bid is not a bid then the whole thing is nothing but a expensive joke!

-- Edited by flipkidjudge at 06:11, 2008-03-07

Date: Fri Mar 7 7:43 AM, 2008

What is AOATC? I have never heard of that term/organization.