Anonymous wrote:

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cheer mom ltd wrote:

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Interesting thread. I never thought tummies had so much power! ............LOL

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AGREED! But like another poster stated, the USASF needs to focus on something else that needs improvement or changes... not uniform tops

 

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Agreed! They can't even get the first things they were trying to do. The way almost any gym that wants to can get to World's should be the first thing they fix. If you don't mind traveling you can get a World's bid somewhere. Then get some consistent juding so people can stop whining about why this team should of won and why that team should not of won.

 

I have read the thread and stating uniformity and what not is rubbish.  Does all ice skaters wear the same style/type costume.  Rubbish I say, parents have choices and so do gym owners.  Let it be, don't see why it has to be put to a vote or rules made about it....

I have to disagree 100% that this move has anything to do with business.  Varsity does not, and cannot, own a monopoly over the making of full length cheerleading uniforms.  So I don't see how they alone benefit from this when any other uniform company can make a full top just as well.

I see this as the USASF's first step in trying to make cheerleading an Olympic sport.  That is one of the main reasons the USASF was created, in order to help standardize and mainstream cheerleading in such a way that it could be considered an Olympic sport.  In regards to uniforms, you have to remember that we live in a country that had a complete hissy fit when Brandy Chastain ripped off her soccer jersey and celebrated winning the World Cup in her sports bra.  Do you really think that those same people are going to accept a sport where girls wear less than a sports bra as their uniform?  It's not going to happen.  And looking at it from an international stand point, yes there are some countries that are less conservative about their bodies and nudity than the United States, but there are also a fair amount that are MORE conservative and are going to struggle even to accept full tops and skirts.

This is a move that HAD to be made in order to make Cheerleading a sport and to make it mainstream.  This is not about a private gym, or a personal choice, or about trying to force you to buy Varsity uniforms.  They are doing what is best for cheerleading as a sport in an attempt to further its growth and development both nationwide and internationally.

Some people are fighting so hard to make this an internationally recognized sport, yet you all are fighting tooth and nail against every decision that has to be made in order to get it to that point. 

Anonymous wrote:

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Great so put the US Olympic cheer team in an official US sanction Varsity uniform. Until then, leave gym decisions up to the gyms.

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 Except in order to spread cheerleading to other countries around the world and make the sport international enough to even GET a US Olympic cheer team, cheerleading needs to be marketable to all audiences.  This is really not a difficult concept.

Parents, tell your gym owners to vote no if your so unhappy.  Parents, write a letter to the USASF and tell them how you feel.   I agree,  the USASF has bigger issues than crop tops and they better deal with it.  I thnnk the real issues are how bids to the worlds are given out.... to gyms being certified and coaches trying to become certified.  At this point crops should be the LAST thing on their list!  Lets ALL tell them that. 

P.S.  Can we get spell check? LOL!   

Anonymous wrote:

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I have to disagree 100% that this move has anything to do with business. Varsity does not, and cannot, own a monopoly over the making of full length cheerleading uniforms. So I don't see how they alone benefit from this when any other uniform company can make a full top just as well.

I see this as the USASF's first step in trying to make cheerleading an Olympic sport. That is one of the main reasons the USASF was created, in order to help standardize and mainstream cheerleading in such a way that it could be considered an Olympic sport. In regards to uniforms, you have to remember that we live in a country that had a complete hissy fit when Brandy Chastain ripped off her soccer jersey and celebrated winning the World Cup in her sports bra. Do you really think that those same people are going to accept a sport where girls wear less than a sports bra as their uniform? It's not going to happen. And looking at it from an international stand point, yes there are some countries that are less conservative about their bodies and nudity than the United States, but there are also a fair amount that are MORE conservative and are going to struggle even to accept full tops and skirts.

This is a move that HAD to be made in order to make Cheerleading a sport and to make it mainstream. This is not about a private gym, or a personal choice, or about trying to force you to buy Varsity uniforms. They are doing what is best for cheerleading as a sport in an attempt to further its growth and development both nationwide and internationally.

Some people are fighting so hard to make this an internationally recognized sport, yet you all are fighting tooth and nail against every decision that has to be made in order to get it to that point.

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While I disagree with your assessment, let's look at it. You say this is the USASF first step in trying to make this an Olympic Sport. According to their website the setting up of the International Cheer Union and the International All Star Federation are the first steps toward establishing your premise. (Who are behind those)Those were some of the first visable steps. Many steps are made behind the scenes that the vast majority in the cheerleading world have no clue about.If these setpes were known to the public their might be a rebellion. So those things have to be kept quiet..that is sound business strategy.

Since they are pushing to make this an Olympic Sport and that is the reason you say, there must be some "official" communication from the IOC in regards to the uniforms and how they must be constructed in order to give a better chance of approval. I am quite sure that if that was the reason, all they had to do is post that with the rule change and that alone would silence the majority on this issue.

Since I am sure the USASF would only want to send the best of the best, then why not...if your premise is the reason, limit this rule change to the Level 5 and or 6's who would make up those teams. This would truly be the only group they affect. It gives them a "special" uniform that the younger cheerleaders could look up to and want to earn the right to wear it. But that eliminates appealing to the mini mom's and parents like me whose children may never get to a level 5 status who would be more in favor of that reason.

Or you can establish a solid (not what they have in place now) World's/Olympic track and the gyms that choose to go that route would have to comply at those events only. That would mean the popping up of Cheerleading Olympic Training Centers for cheerleaders. That would mean more gym hopping than we now see, as parents and kids switch gyms to the one they feel that can get them to the Olympics or...watch the point...are designated as Olympic Training Centers. We will see more gyms becoming feeder gyms for other gyms. More smaller gyms bite the dust. Not to mention who would be the Olympic Team coaches and who would decide it. Now you want to talk about DRAMA!?!?!?!

Let's use the gymnastic model. Every skill has an assigned point value. This is determined by the FIG (Federation International Gymnastique)...not the company trying to be the monopoly in the sport. These point values can not be added to or taken away from based on what looks hard or easy. Opinion is outthe window...compassion for well she is a level 2 so I know she tried her best is gone. There are deductions in every phase of the skill, should the judge determine to take them. The judges are members of NAWGJ AND JUDGE FOR THEM not the competition company. They are assigned to the event by the NAWGJ based on rating, seniority, and availibility. All the gym/competition company does is write the check. They had to go through certification, training, and judge a certain amount of events per year to keep their rating and standing current. They did not judge events where their teams (if they were still coaching) were competing because of conflict of interest.

Now lets look at your back handspring. From when I judged it was a A skill, the simplest skill set on both floor and beam. However there are deductions availible in the pre flight stage (from feet to hands) the support phase (while hands are in contact with the apparatus) and the post flight stage (from hands to feet) if it is bad enough it will cancel out that skill, even though it was attempted. Now lets establish that as a minumum standard for cheerleading. How many deductions can you find on a Level 2 team in BHS? Let me tell you can find them in many Level 5 teams and that include the big dogs. Just because a skill is being done, does not mean it is being done right. But in cheerleading we give credit for the skill done first and then take the deduction (if we chose to) second. How can we even get to a system that is close to this or any other technical Olympic Sport model if we waste time fixing uniforms and not dealing with the real stuff?

How in the world is changing the uniform going to make a difference towards being an Olympic Sport when we can't even get judging decisions right? After every competition from the east coast to the west coast and every in between sombody gets on message boards like this across this country and bemoan the fact that their (that they are on or are a fan of or thatbragged they would beat everybody that weekend) team lost and shouldn't, scores were messed up...and in our beautiful World's bid process ...people slamming gyms left and right because they think they are not good enough to be on a World's stage..even though they won/earned a bid given by a company that is contracted with USASF to do so. But those same folks wont say one word to USASF to stop the maddness.

Where we can't do simple math calculations to detrmine who really won? Where competition companies rarely post the scores because of being bombarded by coaches, parents and kids e-mails and phone calls who have better math skills then their paid judges? Where judges who may have done Team's "A" choreography gives the win to Team "A" even though they did not hit and Team B was cleaner. team C hit solid both days and team D routines was obviously way harder? (I am too close to the "banned" line, so I need to step back but I could go on...based upon what I have seen and heard firsthand)

Fixing the above scenarios in my mind takes major precedence over this issue in making cheerleading an Olympic Sport. USASF has major credibility issues that they need to address if they really want to get all the gyms on board. So if they are not adressing the real issues my question is why or why not?

I see three answers:

1. They can't-everyone who has a great idea can not carry it through to fruition.
   
2. They Won't-while I don't think this is truly the case, this is when you are ignoring the obvious defects.
   
3. They don't care - if we are the only player in town, they will have to come through us. With all the mergers, buyouts, parternerships, co-branding, etc. this is what I see happneing. And with summer coming around..it will be very interesting indeed.

-- Edited by flipkidjudge at 06:34, 2008-03-11

Anonymous wrote:

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I have to disagree 100% that this move has anything to do with business.  Varsity does not, and cannot, own a monopoly over the making of full length cheerleading uniforms.  So I don't see how they alone benefit from this when any other uniform company can make a full top just as well.

I see this as the USASF's first step in trying to make cheerleading an Olympic sport.  That is one of the main reasons the USASF was created, in order to help standardize and mainstream cheerleading in such a way that it could be considered an Olympic sport.  In regards to uniforms, you have to remember that we live in a country that had a complete hissy fit when Brandy Chastain ripped off her soccer jersey and celebrated winning the World Cup in her sports bra.  Do you really think that those same people are going to accept a sport where girls wear less than a sports bra as their uniform?  It's not going to happen.  And looking at it from an international stand point, yes there are some countries that are less conservative about their bodies and nudity than the United States, but there are also a fair amount that are MORE conservative and are going to struggle even to accept full tops and skirts.

This is a move that HAD to be made in order to make Cheerleading a sport and to make it mainstream.  This is not about a private gym, or a personal choice, or about trying to force you to buy Varsity uniforms.  They are doing what is best for cheerleading as a sport in an attempt to further its growth and development both nationwide and internationally.

Some people are fighting so hard to make this an internationally recognized sport, yet you all are fighting tooth and nail against every decision that has to be made in order to get it to that point. 

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Thank you, Jeff Webb.  You may leave the podium now.

Seriously, flipkid, you covered all of the bases quite nicely. 

Anonymous wrote:

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Can someone please being up VALID points as to why the ban on crop tops will benifit Varsity????  I am confused.  Is Varsity the ONLY company who has full length uniforms???....No.....Does Varsity already have a hand in a few uniform companies???.....Yes.......Why will a ban on crop tops benifit them more than it has in the past???  Don't we still have a choice as to who we buy our uniforms from???.....Yes.......I am confused!!!

Personally I like the idea.  We are a sport not a runway show.  So ban crop tops, it won't be so bad to see girls a bit more covered up.  It might teach them a little self respect and modesty.  We all know kids are growing up much faster than they did in years past.  Why not teach them the value of modesty???

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Nothing to do with modesty or uniforms of the past. They are uniform choices of the coaches/gym owners, not USASF. Yes there are some teams that might push the limit, then just punish those few with deductions at specific competitions that have those policies. I am not sure why it has to be put to a survey or even an issue.

I think its a Varsity issue only because they push their specific values onto all star cheerleading. The problem is USASF, or even Varsity need to just run their business and make SAFETY policies.

ACEDAD wrote:

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Couple of things:

1. Got word today that an "explanatory" email is going to be sent in the next few days from USASF to all those that received the "full top" survey.

The issues discussed here and on other boards has alerted USASF to the controversy and I was told that the survey was taken completely out of context.  As soon as I get the email, I'll post it here for everyone to see.

2. This summer the USASF will be conducting 7 or 8 regional meetings for coaches.  At the end of the meeting, they will be having a time for parents to attend.  The parents will be able to ask questions, provide feedback, etc.  When I get locations and dates, I'll post it here.

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Thank you Ace Dad