New USASF Rules

Date: Sat Mar 8 3:12 PM, 2008

RE: New USASF Rules

oldcheermom · Senior Member

What if you live in an area where the cheer teams only wear crop tops and there is not a choice for you to make, except not to cheer?

I've seen girls in full length tops along with their team in crop tops. They did not stand out from the team, in fact they blended in much better than someone wearing a crop top that maybe shouldn't. I've also seen slender girls wearing full length tops, which could be for religious reasons or just plain modesty or who knows why. Again, I noticed, but they really just blended in with the team.

I'm in favor of the younger teams wearing the full length tops, and crop tops for the older girls, with the option of a full length top. I was quite surprised when reading the proposal and seeing the possible change for the older girls. It sure has opened up some interesting discussions though!!

Date: Sat Mar 8 6:24 PM, 2008

I can somewhat agree on this rule for the younger ages.. but for the senior teams, I dont think so.

If this goes through, It better go through with the dallas cowboy cheerleaders too!!!!!!!
Id like to see what they have to say, lol.

Date: Sat Mar 8 8:08 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Coming from an all-star cheerleader i feel like this "rule" is ridiculous. It reminds of the movie Stick It where the athletes feel like it's so unfair that their performances are getting scored lower because of wardrobe rules. Its about the sport of cheerleading, not about how we look when we are performing. What's going to happen IF this rule comes into play? Are they going to dock points if they can see your briefs?? Or if they think a girl isn't fit or old enough to be wearing a crop top? That's not right, we practice way to much to have our performance judged on what we are wearing instead of our skill level. Many of you know how much time, effort, tears, and energy we put into being our best, its not easy. Don't make it harder by telling us what to wear. Do you know how hot it gets in those uniforms? It's pretty bad with all the stress and emotions before you get on stage, crop tops makes it more comfortable. AND how can you possibly expect the top of the skirt and the bottom of your top to touch the entire time your trying to perform? Even the boys can't do that during their stunts or tumbling. Should they wear a leotard underneath? Pretty impossible if you ask me. At practice we usually wear less, sports bras and shorts no matter what size you are. It's a work out!

If it's about the sport then why are you complaining about uniform restrictions? Who cares what you wear on the floor. Be better than your competiton.

As a judge I could not care less about what a team is wearing, how their hair is, or what their makeup looks like, UNLESS it is distracting. I often find the current trends in allstar uniforms, hair, and make up to be distracting. If I as a judge am noticing what you're wearing then I am not looking at what you're doing.

If you want cheerleading to be a sport stop worrying about what you look like or what you're wearing and become a better athlete.

Date: Sat Mar 8 8:24 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

If it's about the sport then why are you complaining about uniform restrictions? Who cares what you wear on the floor. Be better than your competiton.
As a judge I could not care less about what a team is wearing, how their hair is, or what their makeup looks like, UNLESS it is distracting. I often find the current trends in allstar uniforms, hair, and make up to be distracting. If I as a judge am noticing what you're wearing then I am not looking at what you're doing.
If you want cheerleading to be a sport stop worrying about what you look like or what you're wearing and become a better athlete.

Your argument is valid, but you're arguing the wrong point in the wrong place. This isn't the "Is cheerleading a sport?" argument. It's actually, "Should the USASF (aka Varsity) have the power and ability to tell gym owners how to outfit their teams?" No one is talking about someone's ability as an athlete (which, by the way, was stooping a little low- you're an adult, if you're actually a judge, and you're speaking a bit too condescending to a child athlete..."become a better athlete"?). What we're talking about here has NOTHING to do with athletics, and THAT IS THE POINT. We're talking about a SAFETY and RULES governing board deciding to govern UNIFORMS.

Date: Sun Mar 9 1:20 AM, 2008

No way... do you think Cheer Athletics, World Cup or Top Gun are going to listen? NO! I smell a boycott!!! ha-ha... I bet Gym Tyme is on the full length bandwagon.

flipkidjudge · Senior Member

I can not stand when people use sport arguments to justify business decisions. it is not about the sport, the athlete or her self esteem. Those things while they may be valid issues, hide the real issue.

It all comes down to money and control. When you follow the money trail chances are it all winds up in Memphis. And since numerous people have spoken on who wants to control the cheerleading World..we will leave that alone.

-- Edited by flipkidjudge at 05:25, 2008-03-09

Date: Sun Mar 9 5:07 AM, 2008

Conformity

flipkidjudge · Senior Member

Anonymous wrote:

Conformity

LOL!!!! I did a very informal poll of coaches at 4 competitions...2 our teams went to and two I worked. This is informal and unscientific and in no way conclusive, but interesting nonetheless. The questions came up in general conversation only with other coaches. All questions were asked in conversation about USASF or VAristy and not presented in the form I have finalized here.

Again this is informal and generalized only.

They can not stand USASF or Varsity but feel they have no choice but to be a part of USASF if they want to compete locally against neighboring gyms...will lose kids if they don't.
They follow USASF rules for the events they attend, but are not members.
I will close my gym if there are no other options other than join the USASF/Varisty alliance
Who is USASF/Varsity
Why wouldn't you want to be a part of USASF?

Interestingly, #4 was answered more by the first and second year 30-100 member type gyms who are just happy to be out there, just trying to build their business...ironnically the same type gyms USASF was created to stop them from throwing skills they were not trained for.

# 5 was answered more by the mega/large/established power gyms who are on a World's track.

#2 was answered more by gyms associated with the NLCC/Final Destination group of companies and gyms..the same one that ACP was a part of..until they were bought by Varsity....or partnered...or merged...or whatever the "nuanced" word of the week is to say Varsity is our boss but if we say that we will lose our customers too so we need to look and feel like we always have but still....

#2 and 3 were answered more by independent gyms and coaches who see the handwriting on the wall...who are still the majority.

#1 was answered by those who hold out hope that USASF will change.

Again this is very informal...as I always say my experience is my experience. You may not like it but you can't change it.

Date: Sun Mar 9 6:01 AM, 2008

Is the ban on crops really that horrible???? We are a sport right??? The champs could compete in t-shirts and shorts and still be champs right??? We aren't in this sport "for the skirt" are we? Tell me the regualtion uniform was baggy sweats and t-shirts and I would still live for this SPORT!

flipkidjudge · Senior Member

Anonymous wrote:

Is the ban on crops really that horrible???? We are a sport right??? The champs could compete in t-shirts and shorts and still be champs right??? We aren't in this sport "for the skirt" are we? Tell me the regualtion uniform was baggy sweats and t-shirts and I would still live for this SPORT!

For me it does not matter whether they ban crop tops or not. Most gyms who don't like crop tops do not wear them. if a gym has them and a kid/parent does not like them they should talk to the owners and if not satisfied with their response then leave.Our gym wears them and the kids love them...even the ones who others may not think ought to wear them. To my knoweldge not one kid/parent has left our program in the 4 years I have been there because of not liking the uniform. If the ban goes into effect and we choose to compete at USASF sanctioned events then we would have no choice but to comply.

The issue with me has to do on the business side of this rule. I feel that they (USASF/Varsity) are using a very weak, tepid issue to gain a greater control on the market. They are inflating it by sounding the morality/respectability/sporting sirens...when that is not the case. They are using peripheral issues (which are issues...do not think I am saying they are not issues) to blow a smoke screen over the real issue.

Can't answer it...it will get me banned...rofl!

Worlds Watcher · GURU

Can you explain how Varisty is going to "control" the uniform market by USASF outlawing crop tops? Does Varsity not provide a crop top option for their uniforms? Just because crop tops would be banned doesn't mean you have to go with Varsity for your uniforms. Other uniform companies offer full tops. So I'm just not getting this "business" and "control" viewpoint. I know I must be missing something.

Date: Sun Mar 9 9:10 AM, 2008

Worlds Watcher wrote:

Can you explain how Varisty is going to "control" the uniform market by USASF outlawing crop tops? Does Varsity not provide a crop top option for their uniforms? Just because crop tops would be banned doesn't mean you have to go with Varsity for your uniforms. Other uniform companies offer full tops. So I'm just not getting this "business" and "control" viewpoint. I know I must be missing something.

Your right about that but I think that for a full top the uniform companies will just say " More fabric, more money" now that will suck. As a parent who wants to pay $500 more for a full top. I'm exaggerating but you know what I mean.

Date: Sun Mar 9 9:37 AM, 2008

This season our gym tested the waters and ordered crop tops and full length tops from Varsity. The look of the crop is so much cuter than the full length. The cost for either top was just about the same. I don't remember there cost difference maybe $10.

I really don't think its the cost of the uniform here. It's a much larger scale. The economy is taking a major hit right now. The gas prices are going to reach close to $4.00 by summer - economists are predicting - and there are lots of people looking for job security. People are not as free with their money.

People are going to look to save money at every corner of their budget. They don't want to have to purchase a new uniform if the old one is just fine. Gym owners that are looking to change their uniforms in the next two years may want to reconsider.

I understand there are many gyms that are looking into saving their parents money. Uniforms, camps, and over night travel to competitions are being reviewed for the first time in years. There will be gyms that will not have the entire gym order new uniforms - keep what you have. No more camps where it requires travel and other night stays in hotels, and even traveling to competitions will be out of the question. The focus is the economy and if gyms want to keep their cheerleaders these are the avenues that need to be looks at.

I know it's a crazy time out there, but its not going to be any easier for a few more years, unfortunately.

flipkidjudge · Senior Member

Worlds Watcher wrote:

Can you explain how Varisty is going to "control" the uniform market by USASF outlawing crop tops? Does Varsity not provide a crop top option for their uniforms? Just because crop tops would be banned doesn't mean you have to go with Varsity for your uniforms. Other uniform companies offer full tops. So I'm just not getting this "business" and "control" viewpoint. I know I must be missing something.

I will PM you with it later today. Working on a paper and took a break for a second. Last time I posted something like that the whole thread ended up being deleted. I don't want people to miss reading and thinking for themselves because I can be very highly opinionated.

-- Edited by flipkidjudge at 11:24, 2008-03-09

Date: Sun Mar 9 9:36 PM, 2008

I am a big girl-my team wears crop tops...to be honest I did not want to be on the team because of it. I did though. Was I self conscious? You bet. I had two options...lose 25 pounds in a few months-nope, wouldn't be healthy. Option two...be confident with who I am and try to think no one is staring at me. I did become more confident to be honest. This season I had the oppurtunity to wear a full length while the rest of my team wore crop tops. I felt a little more confident to be honest but I felt like I stood out like a sore thumb. In the grand picture of life...it's not a big deal. I am proud of myself for taking the floor and doing what I love! Besides, just because I am a little bigger certainly does not mean I can not excel!

Whoop whoop big girls rule!

Date: Sun Mar 9 10:27 PM, 2008

Worlds Watcher wrote:

Can you explain how Varisty is going to "control" the uniform market by USASF outlawing crop tops? Does Varsity not provide a crop top option for their uniforms? Just because crop tops would be banned doesn't mean you have to go with Varsity for your uniforms. Other uniform companies offer full tops. So I'm just not getting this "business" and "control" viewpoint. I know I must be missing something.

It's not that USASF/Varsity will "control" the uniform market. It's that they are going to "control" gym business decisions. The upside for them is that Varsity and CDT would really make out on sales on new unis, but that is not the core issue. The actual "control" issue here is USASF telling gyms what to do and how to run their business. Does the ADA tell dentists what color to paint their walls in their offices? No, but they regulate what equipment and training they have and use- they're a regulatory, governing board. Cheer gyms are businesses, and when our regulatory board tries to step in and make our business decisions for us, instead of just ensuring safety and rules, we are losing control to someone who is not a stakeholder in our business.

So...if we lose customers over the price of uniforms, or high school girls decide that they'll just stay cheering hs, or we lose more "control" due to further regulations passed by USASF...they won't be reimbursing us, will they?

Worlds Watcher · GURU

So, if a team came out in white bras and thongs, would that be okay? It wouldn't be a safety issue so why regulate it. I would also assume that regulating any dance moves that are "suggestive" should not be part of any rules as that also does not fall under safety issues.

If you look at gymnastics they have strict guidelines on leotards and "under garments" showing or the leotards riding up and exposing rear ends. Not allowed and I believe points are deducted.

I guess what I'm not buying is the arguement that this will benefit Varsity financially and that is the only reason why USASF is doing it.

flipkidjudge · Senior Member

Worlds Watcher wrote:

So, if a team came out in white bras and thongs, would that be okay? It wouldn't be a safety issue so why regulate it. I would also assume that regulating any dance moves that are "suggestive" should not be part of any rules as that also does not fall under safety issues.

If you look at gymnastics they have strict guidelines on leotards and "under garments" showing or the leotards riding up and exposing rear ends. Not allowed and I believe points are deducted.

I guess what I'm not buying is the arguement that this will benefit Varsity financially and that is the only reason why USASF is doing it.

I just sent you the PM. Long study night.

As a formner gymnastic judge you are correct about that deduction being there. I can also say that as a judge I never took it, even if I saw it. Why? Cause it was nit picking type of desuction. No judge that i ever worked with took it. I have let the coach know to address the "issue" lest someone else take the deduction.

That was one of the subtle plot lines in Stick It. Those of who have been in the gymnastic world knew that taking that deduction was nitpicking...trying to find anything wrong you could. And it was only done because the judge had issues with the coach, not the kid. So it was spitefully punishing the kid because of the coach.

Do you think...nawwwwww...never mind!!!!! biggrin

Date: Mon Mar 10 1:22 PM, 2008

Can someone please being up VALID points as to why the ban on crop tops will benifit Varsity???? I am confused. Is Varsity the ONLY company who has full length uniforms???....No.....Does Varsity already have a hand in a few uniform companies???.....Yes.......Why will a ban on crop tops benifit them more than it has in the past??? Don't we still have a choice as to who we buy our uniforms from???.....Yes.......I am confused!!!

Personally I like the idea. We are a sport not a runway show. So ban crop tops, it won't be so bad to see girls a bit more covered up. It might teach them a little self respect and modesty. We all know kids are growing up much faster than they did in years past. Why not teach them the value of modesty???