My whole opinion on this is: Judge not lest ye be judged.
We don't always know the circumstances at each gym. Is it about the win, injuries, or is it about team size?
I expect our coaches and owners to make up the best teams they can with the kids they have. If that means crossovers, that's fine with me.
The only problem I would have is if you have 15 kids with fulls on a small level 3 team. And I wouldn't really have much of a problem with it since I have seen kids with fulls that have trouble with backhandsprings. Like I said, we don't always know the circumstances...
There are numerous factors as you said that go into why gyms use crossovers. Once we set our teams we try not to use them but invaribly have to do so because of injuries, kid quits or had been kicked out of the program. We do not use them just because a certain team/program is going to be at a competition or for a National Title.
I think another reason it is so bad (the complaints) this year is because so many teams are scouting one another on YouTube. Parents are aiding coaches in checking out the competition to see what they are up against. So they are in effect pre-judging the routine and the people they will see at a future competition. When they see different kids at the competition, see a different routine, or recognize a kid from another team in the gym...there you go. The issue of honest reasons never comes up.
But if they use them it is okay. That is why my advice to our kids is do your best, hit your routine and close the door to any one being able to beat you because you messed up.
i kno gyms around me have crossovers but they only are on level 5 teams. meaning they are only on a level 5 team and dont go down to a lower level unless they meet the age range and they need them to make a team for everyone else that cant be on level 5. i think thats ok and is not wrong. not every gym has enough athletes as many of the other big gyms.
I think with small teams sometimes bringing teams down from a level up are necessary. If you are suddenly missing two or three girls on a small team it makes a huge difference. On a large team when members are just added in on the fly to do a tumbling sequence, that doesn't seem right.
i kno gyms around me have crossovers but they only are on level 5 teams. meaning they are only on a level 5 team and dont go down to a lower level unless they meet the age range and they need them to make a team for everyone else that cant be on level 5. i think thats ok and is not wrong. not every gym has enough athletes as many of the other big gyms.
That is cool because they are the same level. Ironically the first time I ever posted on a cheer message board was a few years ago when a local gym accused us of cheating for using crossovers. We normally did not use them but so much back in that day. But all that crossed over was level 2 to level 2. Now years later I understand what happened. They had scouted us and figured they had that division locked up because they had more stunt groups than we did. (I guess the theory being the more stunt groups you put in the air, the more impressive your team looks.) When they saw us roll out as large with a full floor as opposed to 3 kids over small which was what they scouted, they felt we cheated.
I think most gyms can relate to this. As you get towards the end of your season things happen. Members are injured, personal situations may cause some to quit, it happens. You need to fill in the spots, especially if you are a small team. It is very common to not end up with the original members by the end of the season, to scramble to fill in the spots, even a week or two before a competition. Just because you put members from a level up in to fill the spots it doesn't mean you are trying to secure a win. Sometimes that is your only choice. If you have a Senior Level 2 team who is missing members and you only have one other Senior team to fill in the gaps, what other choice do you have? Kudos to members who are put in last minute for learning the routines and giving it their best!
I second this. I do not know what we would have done if some of our girls were not able to fill in when we needed it throughout the season. I am grateful we have talented girls who are able to learn more than one routine, and quickly. It is not easy to be on one team let alone more than one. It takes talent and dedication, love for the sport, and a level of commitment these girls should be commended on.
We're so quick to criticize them so I'm glad to see we're giving props to those who are on multiple teams no matter what level; it is NOT an easy task! Honestly, I could never remember all of one routine if my life depended on it, I don't know how you guys keep it all straight. LIke the last post, I also admire the level of commitment. It's not always easy to find these days, especially as the girls/guys get older and there is so much other stuff going on.
VERY WELL SAID! MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY. I know a lot of gyms do crossovers. I see it like this.. yes, if a teams has 15 kids from a l4 team c/c on a l3 I agree its not fair. BUT, you have to look at all aspects...the stronger tumblers may not be all that great at jumps/stunting/dancing etc...and vise versa. A routine isn't just about tumbling. I have seen many a team compete as a lev 2 and have all of maybe 3 or 4 girls that can tumble...so in that aspect, they NEED the better tumblers. (IMO) Plus, having only 3 or 4 kids tumble.. and recycle all that tumbling doesn't look good either. Iv seen those teams compete and have thought to myself, "They are a great team, beautiful routine, but it sucks that having only those few kids tumble is going to hurt them..." I think it can go both ways. Look on the positive side...cross-overs or not, EVERY coach/gym owner is going to stack their teams to win...this is competitive sport...
Wouldn't a simple solution be....a team can have only a certain percent of cross overs? Say no more than 25%. That way you can have a few girls/boys fill in the holes due to injuries/drop outs/or other circumstances so the rest of the team doesn't suffer.
I like this idea. I think 25% is a reasonable number. We use crossovers, less than 25% on our teams. I could see where 50% or more might come across as unfair.
Ya, I agree. I don't get how the parents pay that much money to have their kids compete 3 or 4 times in a day! That is a huge amount just in entering the comp!!!
Ya, I agree. I don't get how the parents pay that much money to have their kids compete 3 or 4 times in a day! That is a huge amount just in entering the comp!!!
well when you have kids parents who run their own businesses, law firm, or real estate company then money isnt really an object most of them dont mind paying for it
Do most parents fall into one of these categories?? I most certainly don't and most parents at our gym don't either. But you bring up a good point, it does limit your pool of who is available to do crossovers when needed since there is a cost associated with it. So add the affordability factor to the other things that have already been mentioned that is required to cheer on multiple teams. Given all that it takes I'm surprised at the amount of gyms that use them. I say if you can do it, good for you.
crossovers not only benefits the gym. it also benefits those kids who just love to cheer. maybe two days a week isnt enough for some of these kidds that just love cheer that much. or maybe it is a kid who is on a senior squad because of skill but age wise needs to be with kids her own age too. so it isnt always about needing tumbling flyer etc. but in any case as long as the parents can and are willing to pay for it. as long as it doesnt burn the kid out and as long as it is within the rules, there is really nothing wrong with it. yes cheer is an expensive sport, but heir are quite a few of us who can afford to have our kids crossover and enjoying seeing our kid perform more than once. who wouldn't really if your kid is happy and it is a healthy decision for her/him hey nothing wrong with it
The original post was not really complaining about cross overs, but a gym stacking a lower level team with higher level cheerleaders for a specific competition. Does it go on yes it does. Is it right no. I agree with flipkidjudge it won't change until the rules change.
How do we know gyms are doing it for a specific competition? Do you know for a fact after the competition they will no longer be on the team? And do you know why they are on the team to begin with? If you don't know for sure you can't make assumptions. And for the record I see nothing wrong with putting your best team together for a competition. As a matter of fact I wish more teams would do it, it would up the level of competition.
I have to agree. After seeing a real lack of competition in particular divisions I think something like 25% of members from higher levels would be welcome. It would help some of these teams get closer to the level they are competing in. Fellow team members would learn from the more experienced ones, it really would be a win-win situation. I'm not saying you should choose them over others if you have the numbers, but if you're a small team with less than 20 members I think it would be a great idea to fill the rest with those with more experience.
I have to agree. After seeing a real lack of competition in particular divisions I think something like 25% of members from higher levels would be welcome. It would help some of these teams get closer to the level they are competing in. Fellow team members would learn from the more experienced ones, it really would be a win-win situation. I'm not saying you should choose them over others if you have the numbers, but if you're a small team with less than 20 members I think it would be a great idea to fill the rest with those with more experience.
One thing I have heard from kids who dropped levels (whatever the reason) was competing on the lower level team was fun! Maybe that is what we have got to get back to...making it fun for all levels!!!