Spirit Sports webcast

Fierce Coach · GURU

RE: Spirit Sports webcast

Fierce Coach · GURU

Small Senior 4 was divided by 1/10th of a point. CRAZY.

Date: Tue Feb 12 9:48 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

lrg sr 4: ca, power, pride, k&k

Ca and Power large 4's were both SO awesome both days! Congrats to both teams on your performances... Very very close competition and incredible to watch. The energy was off the hook both days. Congrats to Ca for the win and Power for a extremely close second. Your girls WORKED IT!

Totally agreed, I would love to have seen the scores on those two teams, it had to be soooooooo close!

they werent that close acctually

Really?? You know the scores? Would love to hear your inside information, do tell weirdface

Date: Tue Feb 12 10:50 PM, 2008

Fierce Coach wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Spirit sports does post scores on the website (or at least did last year). And all of the coaches had access to everyones scores at the desk before and after deductions, anyone in the large senior 5 has everyone in that catagories scores. Obviously it was CA's deductions that did it, and yes that sucks but sometimes that is what happens. By the way I hear alot from Fierce what did or have they won this year? Just curious

What do you mean? Which team?
And YES we will be in Vegas this season!!!

I mean your opinion is all over this board about just about everyone,pretty uncensored and I am wondering how fierce as an overall program places, any national titles, big wins or is just critiques from you about all the rest of us

Date: Wed Feb 13 2:32 AM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Fierce Coach wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Spirit sports does post scores on the website (or at least did last year). And all of the coaches had access to everyones scores at the desk before and after deductions, anyone in the large senior 5 has everyone in that catagories scores. Obviously it was CA's deductions that did it, and yes that sucks but sometimes that is what happens. By the way I hear alot from Fierce what did or have they won this year? Just curious

What do you mean? Which team?
And YES we will be in Vegas this season!!!

I mean your opinion is all over this board about just about everyone,pretty uncensored and I am wondering how fierce as an overall program places, any national titles, big wins or is just critiques from you about all the rest of us

I know that in Palm Springs that Senior 3 got 4th and Small Senior 5 got 9th.

Diva Coach Melissa · Senior Member

Why should her opinion be based on how well her gyms teams do or do not do? The placement of her teams does not and should not validate or invalidate her opinions or her breadth or depth of knowledge about the sport.

Everyone has an opinion. If someone's bothers you, ignore it.

flipkidjudge · Senior Member

Anonymous wrote:

Spirit sports does post scores on the website (or at least did last year). And all of the coaches had access to everyones scores at the desk before and after deductions, anyone in the large senior 5 has everyone in that catagories scores. Obviously it was CA's deductions that did it, and yes that sucks but sometimes that is what happens. By the way I hear alot from Fierce what did or have they won this year? Just curious

A lot of companies are moving to just posting placements now. There are too many knowledgable cheer people out there calling their judges/tallyers on when they make mistakes instead of just letting it go. I really do not undertsand why in this computer age we have so many comps having scoring issues. I know most of it is human error, and sadly as we have seen in at least one comp every year it is nothing more than human biases. A competition should be won on the floor that day...not for what you have done in the past, nor should sympathy judging play a part in final placement.

Spirit Sports did post scores on their website until last year. Specifically Battle at The Beach. There so many issues that weekend with scoring, wrong announcements of places and winners, dramatic introductions of the major programs in the county and a here's ________ announcement for the other teams and then what they posted on their website when the results were finally posted, they are probably still being deluged with calls, e-mails and letters.

Which was a shame. Other than that it really was a very well run competition. Met some really great programs from around the country. However we won't be going back any time soon. Kudos to our owners for taking a stand!

-- Edited by flipkidjudge at 12:01, 2008-02-13

Date: Wed Feb 13 12:27 PM, 2008

No accountability if you can just post placements and not detailed scoring. What a shame. Just like refs are accountable for errors, shouldn't judges be? (refs at the college level and up review film after games) Olympic judges are held accountable. Okay, we're not college or pro, or Olympics.. but still. Shouldn't there be something in place?

Date: Wed Feb 13 2:03 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

No accountability if you can just post placements and not detailed scoring. What a shame. Just like refs are accountable for errors, shouldn't judges be? (refs at the college level and up review film after games) Olympic judges are held accountable. Okay, we're not college or pro, or Olympics.. but still. Shouldn't there be something in place?

The cover for judging discrepencies is that judging is not only objective (point, deductions, errors, time issues) but subjective. (How I feel about the routine) I think the problems come in when you have a team that wins a competition based on the objetive measures, but subjectively speaking a judge or judges "liked" another teams routine better. Should a team lose because a judges liked another routine better but had more deductions? (Of course we are talking small point differences here. I would hope that judges are not rewriting scores to ensure a certain team/program wins)

When you start discovering who choregraphed whose routines, who went to school together, cheered together, and then you see things that don't make no sense, it makes you wonder. Is there truly integrity in the way we judge our sport?

Date: Wed Feb 13 2:10 PM, 2008

ITA -- then you get the "erasure" marks without intials on the scoresheets that really make you wonder --

Date: Wed Feb 13 2:15 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

ITA -- then you get the "erasure" marks without intials on the scoresheets that really make you wonder --

-- Let me clarify -- lets say you score a 20 out of 20 but when you get your sheet you clearly see the 20 that has been erased and in its place is a 16, when the rest of the judges had scored you 18, 18,19 etc. With no judges initial --It's one thing if the other judges had 16 and 17 but from a 20 to a 16 -- thats a little suspecious even for me... AND on the 16 that was a 20 -- you had only high positive comments.

Date: Wed Feb 13 2:29 PM, 2008

wow this is the same arguement i posted about before. I believe that scores should be announced and posted. Jamz needs to do this and so does SS if that is the case. Too many chances of error that can not be accountable for. It has a not so warm feeling. Erasing scores and rewriting no matter how many times needs to be signed off on period. I dont think a score should be accepted if its not signed. we have to sign all their damng release forms contracts etc orelse we can not compete. they need to return the same. Even if the score is legit, an erased score without a signature leads to suspicion and questions of integrity. it is not that hard! and again wth computer technology pleaaaaaaaaase it is not that hard
my goodness!
and the fact that people know people it is true. Last year one of my parents got a text from a friend who was judging t let her know the place of our team before the cheer competition was over. That is the GODS honest truth. I was shocked. Didn't want to believe it until award scame and there it was we got that place as well as what deductions we had. which a parent would not know was on the score sheet.
i say this to say there needs to be accountability somehow and someway to keep thi ssport going in the right direction.

Fierce Coach · GURU

As a matter of fact: All of our teams did well at Spirit Sports. (with a smile on their face) We brought seven teams this weekend. We walked away with one 8th, 9th, 4th, 4th, 2nd, 2nd, and 1st. All of our teams have good choreograhpy this season, great music, entertaining routines, and great energy on the floor (I would like to think so). There are plenty of other programs that have the same and much more on us and we realize this.

Our mini 1 is well, our mini 1. They are cute and 8th place for them is fine when they know they stuck their routine.
Our junior 2 did very well both day, with two solid routines. Got second to PAC all stars by 2/10ths of a point. They are so talented for such young kiddos.
Our Senior 2 swept the category by a few points. They were amazing.
Our Senior 3 did great both days, and like I've stated before, I think something happened that was a little off in the judging panel. They walked away with fourth place.
Our Senior 4 put on a show both days, but lost by a 1/10th of a point to Titan Elite who were greaaaaaaat both days! Nice job ladies!
Our Senior 5 got 9th. They have had a rough season, but it will only make them stronger next season. We're very proud of them for perservering.
Our Intn'l 5 got 4th. This team was started as a non-competitive group of people, mostly the coaches. All of the kids wanted to see their coaches cheer, so they did. I love watching my best friends perform!!!!

You must realize that I am not afraid to talk about what we do, or what we don't do, or how we place. I'm proud of our teams, always will be. We don't focus on the negative aspects of the way we perform, the mistakes we make... we continue to push towards the future. '

My favorite performances this past weekend was Cali Large 4, Cali large coed, Cali open Senior 2, Cali Int'l 5, Titan Elite small 4, San Diego Heat small 3, OC all stars mini 1, American large 5, POWER large 5, and Arizona Power Xtreme small 5.

:) Great job to all the spirit sports attendees. It was a great weekend!!!

Date: Wed Feb 13 2:56 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ITA -- then you get the "erasure" marks without intials on the scoresheets that really make you wonder --

-- Let me clarify -- lets say you score a 20 out of 20 but when you get your sheet you clearly see the 20 that has been erased and in its place is a 16, when the rest of the judges had scored you 18, 18,19 etc. With no judges initial --It's one thing if the other judges had 16 and 17 but from a 20 to a 16 -- thats a little suspecious even for me... AND on the 16 that was a 20 -- you had only high positive comments.

Wait a minute. On the 16 that used to be a 20 before it was erased, you say you only had high positive comments? Wow, that just doesn't make sense. Shouldn't there be a reason why they gave you 16 instead of 20? There has to be negative comments in there otherwise how would you know what you did wrong or what you need to work on, or more importantly, how they can justify a 16 when it used to be a 20??

Date: Wed Feb 13 3:34 PM, 2008

is it possible there is a certain order of placement they have in mind, and so they just adjust the scores accordingly to get there?

Date: Wed Feb 13 3:44 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

is it possible there is a certain order of placement they have in mind, and so they just adjust the scores accordingly to get there?

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. If that was the case we would all catch on to that.

IloveTacoBell · Member

Fierce Coach wrote:

My favorite performances this past weekend was Cali Large 4, Cali large coed, Cali open Senior 2, Cali Int'l 5, Titan Elite small 4, San Diego Heat small 3, OC all stars mini 1, American large 5, POWER large 5, and Arizona Power Xtreme small 5.

:) Great job to all the spirit sports attendees. It was a great weekend!!!

So american did do well? I need details!

Date: Wed Feb 13 4:45 PM, 2008

I didn't know they actually do news stories on these comps.

http://www.cbstv2.com/Global/story.asp?S=7851128

There's a video that goes with it too.

Date: Wed Feb 13 5:57 PM, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

is it possible there is a certain order of placement they have in mind, and so they just adjust the scores accordingly to get there?

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. If that was the case we would all catch on to that.

It is not really that ridiculous. You see all the teams and you come up with the placements they deserve relative to the other performances. I'm just thinking maybe adjustments are made after the judges have seen all of them. That is not the same as saying you have placements in mind before they even perform.

Date: Wed Feb 13 7:38 PM, 2008

My favorites at this comp were CA Large Coed and CheerForce International Coed. Ca my mouth was open the whole time anc CheerForce Wow such amazing skills needed a few clean ups, but standing double a ton of hand doubles a cool pyramid and a great dance. I didn't care to much for some of their choreography everything just seemed to straight forward and that is why I think CA international team beat them cause CA international had some amazing choreography