Is this Professional and ethical behavior?

Date: Sun Nov 25 8:05 PM, 2007

RE: Is this Professional and ethical behavior?

OC Mom · GURU

We are involved in this EXACT scenario. Our high school coach owns a local all star gym. We also have kids on the high school squad who belong to rival all star gyms. The coach and school staff hire OUTSIDE all star judges to do the tryouts. This way, only the kids who score the highest make the team. A NON-all star judge may not know what they are looking at when each kid trys out.

As for recruiting, I guess we are in a special situation because 99% of the kids who make the team are fully aware of what all star cheer is. You don't make the Varsity squad just doing X-jumps. It's no longer a popularity contest, that's for sure. But having all star judges pick the team made this happen. My heart broke for the girls who didn't make it, but it was EXTREMELY obvious who had cheer experience and who did not. But the gym owner/head coach doesn't HAVE to recruit. All of the girls on the squad either 1. have been all star cheerleaders and know who is who, 2. ARE current all star cheerleaders or 3. are former gymnasts and know basically what cheer is about. So recruiting is unecessary.

We were sent a flyer when my daughter was 4 to try out for all star cheer while she was cheering for Pop Warner. I thank my lucky stars for that. You don't HAVE to join. But if you want to advance and make your high school team later on, you had better..... it's not the same any more. And if your school isn't there yet, IT WILL BE.

Date: Mon Nov 26 8:30 AM, 2007

High School cheerleading has certainly changed since I went to school. There was no such thing as competition cheer. I see nothing wrong with someone doing both. I do think it's quite a heavy load to carrry that would be my main concern. Also I think schools should have competition teams. That way if you wanted to cheer in High School and didn't have the same skills an All Star Cheerleader has (tumbling etc.) you would still have a chance at making a team. I have a problem with cheerleaders doing some of the skills I see them doing on gym floors and concrete when cheering for games. Slideline cheering should be just that. Also a lot of kids dream about being a cheerleader, but maybe mom and dad can't afford All Stars, or don't have the means to send thier child to tumbling classes. These girls don't have a chance anymore and I thinks it's sad.

OC Mom · GURU

I agree with you whole heartedly. But I will tell you this, the cheerleaders aren't boring on the sidelines any more. Also, if they have an all star coach, they tend to NOT have them do the same things on the sidelines. The all star coaches tend to know better.

Date: Mon Nov 26 9:20 AM, 2007

I see all the hard work that kids put into All Star Cheerleading. They give up a lot to participate with the long practices and extra classes the majority take to improve their skills. I know the topic of is or isnt it a sport has been debated a million times, and I am one person who agrees it is a sport. I dont think sideline cheerleading is. I look at it as more of a school club or activity that should be available to anyone to join. You should not have to have level 3 tumbling to make a squad. I think its great that some schools have separate competition teams, and you know you are trying out for a team that is going to require certain skills. But I think the two should be separate. I know that the majority of High Schools do not allow the girls to do both High School and All Stars and I agree to many conflicts. I also agree that an All Star Gym should not have that much control over a High School athletic program.

Date: Mon Nov 26 9:37 AM, 2007

A lot of kids cheer for Youth Football leagues because All Stars is too expensive and not everyone can afford it. Some of these girls dream of becoming a High School cheerleader. So some parents who can afford it pay for tumbling classes so that thier child can learn to do a back hand spring. There goal is to try out when they get to High School. Not everyone has the means or the gymnastic abilities. High School cheer should still be an acivitity that is affordable and available to anyone. If the school wants a competition team then have a separate one. If they don't join an All Star team. It's sad that so many kids are excluded. It may not be a popularity contest anymore, but it's worse because now it's about the have and have nots. I think this is even worse.

Date: Mon Nov 26 9:43 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

High School cheerleading has certainly changed since I went to school. There was no such thing as competition cheer. I see nothing wrong with someone doing both. I do think it's quite a heavy load to carrry that would be my main concern. Also I think schools should have competition teams. That way if you wanted to cheer in High School and didn't have the same skills an All Star Cheerleader has (tumbling etc.) you would still have a chance at making a team. I have a problem with cheerleaders doing some of the skills I see them doing on gym floors and concrete when cheering for games. Slideline cheering should be just that. Also a lot of kids dream about being a cheerleader, but maybe mom and dad can't afford All Stars, or don't have the means to send thier child to tumbling classes. These girls don't have a chance anymore and I thinks it's sad.

I completely disagree. Having cheered in high school and college, the skills you display at competition, should be on the sidelines. The problem is the coaches don't know look for the ri ght skills at tryouts. You can have a back tuck, but those girls who know how to perform and really look like a cheerleader should make it. Skill is one thing, but being a true cheerleader is another. Having those high school comp teams divide up the program and creates conflict. What other high school activity/sport has a "comp" team and a regular team. None! You need to set requirements and stick to them. Many of the high school coaches put pressure on these kids to perform specific skills at games they don't have. The main reason Varsity and the NFHS has said NO spring floor for high school teams is because they want to see what the cheerleaders can do at school. There is no spring floor at school, so you need to see what they would normally do at a rally, game or halftime. Personally there should just be a squad for each level and coaches from all star/high school should have NO say in what kids do. It's not YOUR child. Think about all the opportunities kids can't have because they can't participate in dual activities, especially since there is no justification for it. Additionally how many kids miss cheer practice due to school play practice, studio dance, school clubs, leadership and other things.

Date: Mon Nov 26 10:03 AM, 2007

People, you need to get over it! There will always be things in life that are out of your means. Dang, I would love to have some Jimmy Choos but I cant afford it. Or I would have loved to be an ice skater when I was a child but my mom couldnt afford it.

There are expensive sports and less expensive sports. Stop crying how its unfair, blah blah! There are plenty of other sports out there that are way less expensive. You have options.

Date: Mon Nov 26 10:07 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

High School cheerleading has certainly changed since I went to school. There was no such thing as competition cheer. I see nothing wrong with someone doing both. I do think it's quite a heavy load to carrry that would be my main concern. Also I think schools should have competition teams. That way if you wanted to cheer in High School and didn't have the same skills an All Star Cheerleader has (tumbling etc.) you would still have a chance at making a team. I have a problem with cheerleaders doing some of the skills I see them doing on gym floors and concrete when cheering for games. Slideline cheering should be just that. Also a lot of kids dream about being a cheerleader, but maybe mom and dad can't afford All Stars, or don't have the means to send thier child to tumbling classes. These girls don't have a chance anymore and I thinks it's sad.

I completely disagree. Having cheered in high school and college, the skills you display at competition, should be on the sidelines. The problem is the coaches don't know look for the ri ght skills at tryouts. You can have a back tuck, but those girls who know how to perform and really look like a cheerleader should make it. Skill is one thing, but being a true cheerleader is another. Having those high school comp teams divide up the program and creates conflict. What other high school activity/sport has a "comp" team and a regular team. None! You need to set requirements and stick to them. Many of the high school coaches put pressure on these kids to perform specific skills at games they don't have. The main reason Varsity and the NFHS has said NO spring floor for high school teams is because they want to see what the cheerleaders can do at school. There is no spring floor at school, so you need to see what they would normally do at a rally, game or halftime. Personally there should just be a squad for each level and coaches from all star/high school should have NO say in what kids do. It's not YOUR child. Think about all the opportunities kids can't have because they can't participate in dual activities, especially since there is no justification for it. Additionally how many kids miss cheer practice due to school play practice, studio dance, school clubs, leadership and other things.

I'm confused by what your saying. On one hand your saying kids girls who know how to perform and really look like a cheerleader should make it even though they might not have the same skills. Then your saying they need to set requirements and stick to them. I think I agree with the original post.

Date: Mon Nov 26 10:12 AM, 2007

Ok Here I Come with my point of veiw once again....
I see nothing wrong with having a competition squad for HS cheer. But it should be seperate form the regular HS cheerleading. Withthat said, if you have a seperate competition squad then of course the rules, expenses and requirements change.But you also have your "regular" cheer squads. It is the best way for any school to have the best of both worlds and for some of those HS cheerleaders who still want to cheer high school and do comeptitive cheer. It would benefit schools more, because then they would not be sacraficing the talent and the heerleaders do not have to chose high school or all stars. This gives those cheerleaders who just are fit to be "typical" (and i use that word lightly) high school cheerleaders a place to cheer and do their thing and it also gives those hardcore competitive cheerleaders a chance to stay and be competitive without having to skip cheer practice to go to all star practice.
Now with that (competitive squad) i see nothing wrong with hiring all stars gyms to come in and coach and help the competiitive squad. Its great for all star gyms to do and it is beneficial to a "competitive" high school squad. my opionion it would be great for all high school teams to have both. And those who dont make the competitive team or cant afford it still have the oppurtunity to cheer.
All star gyms have a moral and ethical responsibility not to try and persuade highschool cheerleaders to leave their squad during the season. But it is the cheerleaders choice and their parents choice if they decide at the end to switch. nOthing wrong with that!
My opinion ONLY of course
i do think that it is hard to cheer both high school and all stars!!! no matter what someone is going to get short changed somewhere. be it the all star gym missing them at practice or they are showing up late or the high school team becuase you have to leave early

so why not just have both type of teams at high schools

Date: Mon Nov 26 10:16 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Ok Here I Come with my point of veiw once again....
I see nothing wrong with having a competition squad for HS cheer. But it should be seperate form the regular HS cheerleading. Withthat said, if you have a seperate competition squad then of course the rules, expenses and requirements change.But you also have your "regular" cheer squads. It is the best way for any school to have the best of both worlds and for some of those HS cheerleaders who still want to cheer high school and do comeptitive cheer. It would benefit schools more, because then they would not be sacraficing the talent and the heerleaders do not have to chose high school or all stars. This gives those cheerleaders who just are fit to be "typical" (and i use that word lightly) high school cheerleaders a place to cheer and do their thing and it also gives those hardcore competitive cheerleaders a chance to stay and be competitive without having to skip cheer practice to go to all star practice.
Now with that (competitive squad) i see nothing wrong with hiring all stars gyms to come in and coach and help the competiitive squad. Its great for all star gyms to do and it is beneficial to a "competitive" high school squad. my opionion it would be great for all high school teams to have both. And those who dont make the competitive team or cant afford it still have the oppurtunity to cheer.
All star gyms have a moral and ethical responsibility not to try and persuade highschool cheerleaders to leave their squad during the season. But it is the cheerleaders choice and their parents choice if they decide at the end to switch. nOthing wrong with that!
My opinion ONLY of course
i do think that it is hard to cheer both high school and all stars!!! no matter what someone is going to get short changed somewhere. be it the all star gym missing them at practice or they are showing up late or the high school team becuase you have to leave early

so why not just have both type of teams at high schools

I wonder how many boys sports would do the same thing? Hey your on the school football team, but you can't do any games, just intramurals. Cheerleading is so screwed up, it's no wonder school administrations and AD's have the most problems with them.

Date: Mon Nov 26 10:23 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

People, you need to get over it! There will always be things in life that are out of your means. Dang, I would love to have some Jimmy Choos but I cant afford it. Or I would have loved to be an ice skater when I was a child but my mom couldnt afford it.

There are expensive sports and less expensive sports. Stop crying how its unfair, blah blah! There are plenty of other sports out there that are way less expensive. You have options.

I dont really think this post is about affording certain things although it may have been mentioned. its about giving kids fair oppurtunities. High school sports are supposed to be affordable and low cost in general and I think that is what they are trying to say. High school programs are set up so that every kid who can make the team can participate. It was never about if someone could afford it or not. There are plenty of low income families whose kids are on basketball, football softball participating in high school sports who could not afford to be on a traveling team or something like that outside ogf highschool. High school affords all the oppurtunity to participate no matter if you can afford it or not! i believe that is what they are trying to say.
now buying jimmy choo shoes or as you so kindly stated blah blah blah is a different story

Date: Mon Nov 26 10:29 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Ok Here I Come with my point of veiw once again....
I see nothing wrong with having a competition squad for HS cheer. But it should be seperate form the regular HS cheerleading. Withthat said, if you have a seperate competition squad then of course the rules, expenses and requirements change.But you also have your "regular" cheer squads. It is the best way for any school to have the best of both worlds and for some of those HS cheerleaders who still want to cheer high school and do comeptitive cheer. It would benefit schools more, because then they would not be sacraficing the talent and the heerleaders do not have to chose high school or all stars. This gives those cheerleaders who just are fit to be "typical" (and i use that word lightly) high school cheerleaders a place to cheer and do their thing and it also gives those hardcore competitive cheerleaders a chance to stay and be competitive without having to skip cheer practice to go to all star practice.
Now with that (competitive squad) i see nothing wrong with hiring all stars gyms to come in and coach and help the competiitive squad. Its great for all star gyms to do and it is beneficial to a "competitive" high school squad. my opionion it would be great for all high school teams to have both. And those who dont make the competitive team or cant afford it still have the oppurtunity to cheer.
All star gyms have a moral and ethical responsibility not to try and persuade highschool cheerleaders to leave their squad during the season. But it is the cheerleaders choice and their parents choice if they decide at the end to switch. nOthing wrong with that!
My opinion ONLY of course
i do think that it is hard to cheer both high school and all stars!!! no matter what someone is going to get short changed somewhere. be it the all star gym missing them at practice or they are showing up late or the high school team becuase you have to leave early

so why not just have both type of teams at high schools

Thank you that is what I was trying to say above. You just said it alot better. I agree 100%.

Date: Mon Nov 26 10:32 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

People, you need to get over it! There will always be things in life that are out of your means. Dang, I would love to have some Jimmy Choos but I cant afford it. Or I would have loved to be an ice skater when I was a child but my mom couldnt afford it.

There are expensive sports and less expensive sports. Stop crying how its unfair, blah blah! There are plenty of other sports out there that are way less expensive. You have options.

I dont really think this post is about affording certain things although it may have been mentioned. its about giving kids fair oppurtunities. High school sports are supposed to be affordable and low cost in general and I think that is what they are trying to say. High school programs are set up so that every kid who can make the team can participate. It was never about if someone could afford it or not. There are plenty of low income families whose kids are on basketball, football softball participating in high school sports who could not afford to be on a traveling team or something like that outside ogf highschool. High school affords all the oppurtunity to participate no matter if you can afford it or not! i believe that is what they are trying to say.
now buying jimmy choo shoes or as you so kindly stated blah blah blah is a different story

Great reply.

Date: Mon Nov 26 10:33 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ok Here I Come with my point of veiw once again....
I see nothing wrong with having a competition squad for HS cheer. But it should be seperate form the regular HS cheerleading. Withthat said, if you have a seperate competition squad then of course the rules, expenses and requirements change.But you also have your "regular" cheer squads. It is the best way for any school to have the best of both worlds and for some of those HS cheerleaders who still want to cheer high school and do comeptitive cheer. It would benefit schools more, because then they would not be sacraficing the talent and the heerleaders do not have to chose high school or all stars. This gives those cheerleaders who just are fit to be "typical" (and i use that word lightly) high school cheerleaders a place to cheer and do their thing and it also gives those hardcore competitive cheerleaders a chance to stay and be competitive without having to skip cheer practice to go to all star practice.
Now with that (competitive squad) i see nothing wrong with hiring all stars gyms to come in and coach and help the competiitive squad. Its great for all star gyms to do and it is beneficial to a "competitive" high school squad. my opionion it would be great for all high school teams to have both. And those who dont make the competitive team or cant afford it still have the oppurtunity to cheer.
All star gyms have a moral and ethical responsibility not to try and persuade highschool cheerleaders to leave their squad during the season. But it is the cheerleaders choice and their parents choice if they decide at the end to switch. nOthing wrong with that!
My opinion ONLY of course
i do think that it is hard to cheer both high school and all stars!!! no matter what someone is going to get short changed somewhere. be it the all star gym missing them at practice or they are showing up late or the high school team becuase you have to leave early

so why not just have both type of teams at high schools

I wonder how many boys sports would do the same thing? Hey your on the school football team, but you can't do any games, just intramurals. Cheerleading is so screwed up, it's no wonder school administrations and AD's have the most problems with them.

you know there are plenty of schools who do offer that to kids who dont want to be on a "boys" sport... so yes they do offer that and plenty of kids participate in it.
cheerleading is not screwed up its the point of veiw people have on it that is screwed up.
thank you that is all lol biggrin

Date: Mon Nov 26 10:36 AM, 2007

My concern is when did High School Cheer become All Star Cheerleading. They are not the same and should not be.

Date: Mon Nov 26 10:43 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

My concern is when did High School Cheer become All Star Cheerleading. They are not the same and should not be.

High school cheer never became all star cheerleading. What has happned is all star cheerleading has become very popular and so the kids are having an interest in it. So the high schools are trying to keep cheerleading programs and cheerleaders in their high schools. My opionon of course is they are trying to incoroprate both somehow.

Date: Mon Nov 26 10:51 AM, 2007

_____________________________________________________________
you know there are plenty of schools who do offer that to kids who dont want to be on a "boys" sport... so yes they do offer that and plenty of kids participate in it. Cheerleading is not screwed up its the point of veiw people have on it that is screwed up.
thank you that is all lol biggrin

_____________________________________________________________

One of the big problems is that the school Athlectic Directors do not understand what it is really about. Most do not consider it a sport but just an acivitity, and do not really take full responsibility for the programs. How the program is run depends on how/who is running the program. My feeling is that it should not be run by an All Star Gym. Getting help with coaching, or practicing at an All Star Gym is one thing. The gym running the program is a conflict of interest where usually the best interest of the gym wins out. I don't think just because there are differing views makes those views screwed up as you put it. If people want it to be treated as a sport changes need to be made on how the school administration views the program as well.

Date: Mon Nov 26 10:55 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My concern is when did High School Cheer become All Star Cheerleading. They are not the same and should not be.

This is my concern as well.
High school cheer never became all star cheerleading. What has happned is all star cheerleading has become very popular and so the kids are having an interest in it. So the high schools are trying to keep cheerleading programs and cheerleaders in their high schools. My opionon of course is they are trying to incoroprate both somehow.

Date: Mon Nov 26 11:36 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

_____________________________________________________________
you know there are plenty of schools who do offer that to kids who dont want to be on a "boys" sport... so yes they do offer that and plenty of kids participate in it. Cheerleading is not screwed up its the point of veiw people have on it that is screwed up.
thank you that is all lol
_____________________________________________________________

One of the big problems is that the school Athlectic Directors do not understand what it is really about. Most do not consider it a sport but just an acivitity, and do not really take full responsibility for the programs. How the program is run depends on how/who is running the program. My feeling is that it should not be run by an All Star Gym. Getting help with coaching, or practicing at an All Star Gym is one thing. The gym running the program is a conflict of interest where usually the best interest of the gym wins out. I don't think just because there are differing views makes those views screwed up as you put it. If people want it to be treated as a sport changes need to be made on how the school administration views the program as well.

my goodness it was a joke i dont think anyones opinion on anything is screwed up. its called their opinion it was l ight hearted joke to the peron who said cheerleaders etc are screwed up

let me go on the record now and say I WAS JOKING!