OPEN SENIOR 4

Date: Sat Nov 24 9:56 PM, 2007

RE: OPEN SENIOR 4

Date: Sat Nov 24 10:39 PM, 2007

The rules are from USASF. Open divisions are just a way around the rules, for now.

Date: Sat Nov 24 10:41 PM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think its the question of the open teams, its the programs who complain that other teams have flyers that are to little.

Small flyers come with drawbacks as well. Little girls who have not flown before are not necessarily an asset regardless of their tumbling ability. There are not options for them as far as stunting goes.

Date: Sat Nov 24 10:46 PM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think its the question of the open teams, its the programs who complain that other teams have flyers that are to little.

Small flyers come with drawbacks as well. Little girls who have not flown before are not necessarily an asset regardless of their tumbling ability. There are not options for them as far as stunting goes.

Obviously! that is besides the point. But there are MANY amazing little flyers out there. The point is teams, coaches, parents and gym owners have complained that teams with small flyers dont' have to work as hard, bla bla..

Date: Sat Nov 24 11:40 PM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think its the question of the open teams, its the programs who complain that other teams have flyers that are to little.

Small flyers come with drawbacks as well. Little girls who have not flown before are not necessarily an asset regardless of their tumbling ability. There are not options for them as far as stunting goes.

Obviously! that is besides the point. But there are MANY amazing little flyers out there. The point is teams, coaches, parents and gym owners have complained that teams with small flyers dont' have to work as hard, bla bla..

Ignorance is bliss. Some teams have to work harder trying to incorporate the babies with fabulous tumbling skills into great flyers...try teaching a 7 year old to tic toc...not so fun!

Date: Sun Nov 25 12:08 AM, 2007

this is a moms point of view.... i do not particulairly like to pay a 100 plus dollars for a competition and the girls not compete against anyone. I would rather my gym compete at a lower level and compete than to pay thousands of dollars for a season and not have them compete against other teams i think it is absurd to tell the truth nothing against high school or even pop warner squads but you know when you pay that kind of money you are most likely cheering at games and you "may compete" but to pay for competeitive cheer and not compete against other teams is not cool at all

i have seen the girls on UCF that are younger and they are on more than just their open team so my question is why not have a true level 4 team without the younger girls or just compete level 3 and compete against other teams? isn't that what you are in the business of doing? that is to compete! the open division was to help the smaller gyms but in my opionion it is hurting them. my opionion only, but isnt it better to build strong competitive teams at true levels than to make teams just to compete at a higher level than your gym is equipped to do? not knocking uCF at all I think they have a lot of potential and they did well at their last competition but its crazy to see these young cheerleaders on their level 4 team and its not because they are throwing level 4 tumbling it is because it allows them to have them for level four stunts which means maybe they are not a true level 4 team if you can not compete level 4 with girls of the right age for a senior team

UCF has an amazing team this season so far and i wish them luck but i personally would not pay to have my daughter on a team that didn't compete against anyone or on a team that had flyers way too young to be on a senior team once again my opionion only

go back to small gym large gym with the levels and that way small gyms compete aginst small gyms and larger gyms compete against large gyms with
small being 60 kids or less and so on.........

sounds like a great idea dont' you think

Date: Sun Nov 25 1:46 AM, 2007

It is just unfortunate that this particular division, as far as we can tell, has no other competitors. I can handle one, maybe two competitions where our team would be competing against nobody, but after that I would start to feel we have wasted our money (sorry, just my opinion) and I would hope our gym would make adjustments so that we are not simply paying to have our children perform on stage. This is exactly why I dislike these open divisions so much, it can put gyms in situations like this. We would be better off without them.

Date: Sun Nov 25 2:18 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

It is just unfortunate that this particular division, as far as we can tell, has no other competitors. I can handle one, maybe two competitions where our team would be competing against nobody, but after that I would start to feel we have wasted our money (sorry, just my opinion) and I would hope our gym would make adjustments so that we are not simply paying to have our children perform on stage. This is exactly why I dislike these open divisions so much, it can put gyms in situations like this. We would be better off without them.

I have to agree with you! I will not keep my mouth shut if our girls continue to compete with noone in their division we are paying for them to compete and it is a waste of money and good talent we didnt agree to pay for our kids to just go on stage and perform that is not right and i think it is unfair for gyms to do this to customers and the children
1 competition is ok that could be just a fluke but more than 1 not going to happen and leaves only 3 more comps not ok at all i know other parents on the team are not satisfied with that and it will not be good for them if it continues i will ask for my money back they have not giving us what we paid for
i want to know why some gyms do not just compete at levels that they are stong in and have teams that are age appropriate i have not and will never be a fan on gyms or team putting too young of cheerleaders on teams unless they are over the top great and still age and maturity say a lot just make teams within regulation get rid of these damn open divisions i recall that this level was decided on the girls after a vote or something like that
what do we have owners coaches and adults for
let me go on the record now i will not continue to pay if we continue to compete solo and dont be naiive there are many others who will not either

not to take away from those two girls on the squad they work hard but its just not the right thing to do bring back small gym large gym no more open divisions

Date: Sun Nov 25 8:14 AM, 2007

I know this may sound mean to many, but tuition doesn't grant you the right to perform, it gives your the monthly training and use of space each month. In addition the main competition you should worry about are nationals. The small events gear you up for the big ones at the end. No matter if you compete against another team or not, your competing for scores and feedback. You know if everyone felt like you then there would be no level 5 teams. So many level 5 teams have NO competition in their area, but they compete for feedback and to see how the routine does on the floor. Comp fees don't pay for your competitors it pays for the venue, staff, goodybags, and other things.

Date: Sun Nov 25 8:17 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

I know this may sound mean to many, but tuition doesn't grant you the right to perform, it gives your the monthly training and use of space each month. In addition the main competition you should worry about are nationals. The small events gear you up for the big ones at the end. No matter if you compete against another team or not, your competing for scores and feedback. You know if everyone felt like you then there would be no level 5 teams. So many level 5 teams have NO competition in their area, but they compete for feedback and to see how the routine does on the floor. Comp fees don't pay for your competitors it pays for the venue, staff, goodybags, and other things.

Well thank goodness we are paying for all these goodybags!!!

Date: Sun Nov 25 8:32 AM, 2007

Well I really don't think the 2 girls in question have level 4 tumbling skills. They are level 3 from what i've seen. They are on the team to fly.

Date: Sun Nov 25 8:39 AM, 2007

Actually they do, they can both do two standing BH to a tuck, RO BH Layout, and one can also do a standing tuck. Those are all level 4 tumbling requirements.

Date: Sun Nov 25 9:14 AM, 2007

I highly doubt you will see many teams in this division at Nationals as well. It's too bad because Sr Level 4 is a very competitive division, as is Senior Level 3.

Date: Sun Nov 25 9:17 AM, 2007

Well I guess some people just want a national title no matter how they get it. They won't have any competition but they will have an easier time placing well and they can still call themselves National Champions!!! Great season!

Date: Sun Nov 25 9:23 AM, 2007

Granted we have only been to two competitions this year, but so far the senior 3 open division seems to always have competition this year. I don't understand why this bothers some people so much. I think this topic has been beaten to death already. Let it die please.

Date: Sun Nov 25 10:48 AM, 2007

Senior Open 3 has had competition, thankfully. But no more than two at once so far and that doesn't look to change unless all three are at the same comp. It's the same issues. Gyms have control over what division they choose to compete in, that is the issue here. Sr Open 4 has no competition so will the gym continue to place themselves in this division?

But I agree, we've beat this topic to death.

Date: Sun Nov 25 12:40 PM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I know this may sound mean to many, but tuition doesn't grant you the right to perform, it gives your the monthly training and use of space each month. In addition the main competition you should worry about are nationals. The small events gear you up for the big ones at the end. No matter if you compete against another team or not, your competing for scores and feedback. You know if everyone felt like you then there would be no level 5 teams. So many level 5 teams have NO competition in their area, but they compete for feedback and to see how the routine does on the floor. Comp fees don't pay for your competitors it pays for the venue, staff, goodybags, and other things.

Well thank goodness we are paying for all these goodybags!!!

Honey, as usual you missed the overall point. You don't pay just to compete against someone, its for the entire event.

Date: Sun Nov 25 12:43 PM, 2007

I agree. This topic should die.

It's unfortunate that this is a "NEW" division and you are bashing gyms for trying comforming by the rules set forth by USASF. I'm sure if USASF didn't create this rule these teams would be glad to compete in the regular categories. And I am just taking the OPEN divisions acrossed the board. Levels 2, 3, 4. USASF did create this division and there are gyms that fit the category. That's the way it goes.

You all need to keep gym names out of your discussions.

I personally know several of the parents of the kids you refer to. It's really quite sad to have to see your gym's name and every more your daughter, being pointed out, in a round about way, on this anonymous board. It's actually quite creepy if you ask them.

Please keep in mind there isn't a single gym out there that can predict how many gyms will also field the same level of teams. These teams are formed way back in what - May, June, July.

Come on people - These open teams our working their booties off. There may be times that the team doesn't compete against another team. That team sould not rest for a "easy" win. They should be looking to get "high point" or "grand champion" or looking to hit a fantastic routine. Challenge is the key when competing. And I personally think that each of these gyms, that host OPEN teams, have this same philosophy and "push" their teams to the next level.

Please end this topic - I really think this ENTIRE topic needs to be deleted and not just "closed".

Date: Sun Nov 25 1:17 PM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Well I guess some people just want a national title no matter how they get it. They won't have any competition but they will have an easier time placing well and they can still call themselves National Champions!!! Great season!

You know what this is a great debate, and we've had this many a times and it will continue - probably forever as long as there is cheer.
The thing is, these younger girls have worked their butts off, and not only UCF has them on their Sr.4 OPEN team and everyone knows it.
I see it on everyones teams! So lets not blow smoke up anyones rear here.
And you darn well know you care more about making your childrens happiness than the competitors they go up against. If you daughter is not against anyone, be happy they are going home with something and it just gave you bragging rights. And you know what.. maybe also you can think of it as, no one is good enough to compete with them.
Would you honestly rather them be put on a youth or junior team where thier skills would be of limited use and where they might even lose thier tumbling skills?
Would you honestly lower the level from a 4 to a 3 of team and limit them as well? and this is not fair to all the other competitors that are a true level 3. You want to sweep them in a division that you aren't supposed to be in?
Or put them on a sr. team where they will incorporate all of their skills?
You know if the tiny 8-10 yr old is your daughter you'ld be darn proud. So everyone give it up, this is a losing battle.
I think UCF is being completely fair for their girls and for other competitors.

Examples of what's not fair..
Power Mini lvl 2 - should be Yth lvl 2 (and yes they've already competed in this division)

anyone want to add to the list?

Date: Sun Nov 25 2:13 PM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well I guess some people just want a national title no matter how they get it. They won't have any competition but they will have an easier time placing well and they can still call themselves National Champions!!! Great season!

You know what this is a great debate, and we've had this many a times and it will continue - probably forever as long as there is cheer.
The thing is, these younger girls have worked their butts off, and not only UCF has them on their Sr.4 OPEN team and everyone knows it.
I see it on everyones teams! So lets not blow smoke up anyones rear here.
And you darn well know you care more about making your childrens happiness than the competitors they go up against. If you daughter is not against anyone, be happy they are going home with something and it just gave you bragging rights. And you know what.. maybe also you can think of it as, no one is good enough to compete with them.
Would you honestly rather them be put on a youth or junior team where thier skills would be of limited use and where they might even lose thier tumbling skills?
Would you honestly lower the level from a 4 to a 3 of team and limit them as well? and this is not fair to all the other competitors that are a true level 3. You want to sweep them in a division that you aren't supposed to be in?
Or put them on a sr. team where they will incorporate all of their skills?
You know if the tiny 8-10 yr old is your daughter you'ld be darn proud. So everyone give it up, this is a losing battle.
I think UCF is being completely fair for their girls and for other competitors.

Examples of what's not fair..
Power Mini lvl 2 - should be Yth lvl 2 (and yes they've already competed in this division)

anyone want to add to the list?

you know what is funny (really quite sad) is that UCF gets bashed for everything they do. I just read back through the POWER competition postings. They were bashed because they didn't take first place at that competition. And several postings pointed out, to them, that they should drop down a division because their girls will feel dejected and winning is what really matters.

Now, they are being bashed because they have a fantastic opportunity to become a 2008 National champs and still challenging their girls every step of the way. All because the competitive pool is small, which I might add, is totally out of their control. I really feel for UCF.

If the rule of the OPEN team is removed next season, UCF is going to be far more ready at the 4 level than any other team. They will have built the confidence at level 4 and have the experience to perform at that level.