Too many cheer competition companies?

Date: Wed Nov 7 9:29 AM, 2007

Too many cheer competition companies?

my3grlz · Veteran Member

It's actually frusterating to me. We're going to a 2 day competition in a couple of weeks and my daughter's team is not going against anyone. I like it so much better when they go against 2 or more teams. It makes it so much more exciting.

Date: Wed Nov 7 9:40 AM, 2007

Yes there are too many. I would rather have quality then qauntity. But I do think that more competitions probally help keep the competition costs down. The problem here in Northern California is that there are fewer gyms and All Star Cheer is still building in popularity here. In the east and south it's much bigger. There are many more gyms and cheerleaders.

Nelson · Senior Member

*warning* The following is my opinion, take it for what it's worth

I don't think it's so much the number of companies hosting competitions, I think it's the plethora of divisions offered.

I'm not a fan of the all the levels we have. I'm not a fan of having 5 levels. It was enjoyable when it was just one. I can see a case for three (Novice, Intermediate, Advanced) but 5 seems overkill. And now with Open divisions as well...I find it's too much.

I'm not a fan of the levels because in my opinion, it is weakening choreography. Teams are now so focused on covering the score sheet that routines become repetitive. They're worried about "maxing" out their level and jamming in as many skills as possible. Even level 5 teams where they are performing top level skills. I can't tell you how over kick double baskets I am.

Gone are the days where choreography really mattered. Where innovation in movement and visual effect were what coaches strived for. Now we HAVE to have basket toss sections. We HAVE to have multiple jumps (is it just me, or does everyone do the same jumps? Hurlder, clap turn, pike, clap turn, double or triple toe to a tumbling skill...yawn.) We HAVE to max out our stunts.

The silver lining in this cloud is last year's World's competition in the Large Coed Division. Top Gun, who in my opinion had fewer skills than Cheer Athletics, beat out Cheer Athletics because (again my opinion) their routine was better choreographed.

Thank goodness for that. I'd hate to see cheer go in the direction of gymnastics where, although it is enjoyable to watch the skills, I find it boring to watch them perform.

Nelson

-- Edited by Nelson at 11:18, 2007-11-07

Date: Wed Nov 7 10:59 AM, 2007

Very well said. Couldn't agree more.

Date: Wed Nov 7 11:32 AM, 2007

Nelson wrote:

I'm not a fan of the levels because in my opinion, it is weakening choreography. Teams are now so focused on covering the score sheet that routines become repetitive. They're worried about "maxing" out their level and jamming in as many skills as possible. Even level 5 teams where they are performing top level skills. I can't tell you how over kick double baskets I am.

Gone are the days where choreography really mattered. Where innovation in movement and visual effect were what coaches strived for. Now we HAVE to have basket toss sections. We HAVE to have multiple jumps (is it just me, or does everyone do the same jumps? Hurlder, clap turn, pike, clap turn, double or triple toe to a tumbling skill...yawn.) We HAVE to max out our stunts.

Maybe eventually cheer could adopt an ice skating-style judging system where the teams perform a compulsory routine (required skills) and a separate "free cheer" routine where they can show off their choreography and fun stuff! biggrin

LadyW · Senior Member

Nelson wrote:

*warning* The following is my opinion, take it for what it's worth

I don't think it's so much the number of companies hosting competitions, I think it's the plethora of divisions offered.

I'm not a fan of the all the levels we have. I'm not a fan of having 5 levels. It was enjoyable when it was just one. I can see a case for three (Novice, Intermediate, Advanced) but 5 seems overkill. And now with Open divisions as well...I find it's too much.

I'm not a fan of the levels because in my opinion, it is weakening choreography. Teams are now so focused on covering the score sheet that routines become repetitive. They're worried about "maxing" out their level and jamming in as many skills as possible. Even level 5 teams where they are performing top level skills. I can't tell you how over kick double baskets I am.

Gone are the days where choreography really mattered. Where innovation in movement and visual effect were what coaches strived for. Now we HAVE to have basket toss sections. We HAVE to have multiple jumps (is it just me, or does everyone do the same jumps? Hurlder, clap turn, pike, clap turn, double or triple toe to a tumbling skill...yawn.) We HAVE to max out our stunts.

The silver lining in this cloud is last year's World's competition in the Large Coed Division. Top Gun, who in my opinion had fewer skills than Cheer Athletics, beat out Cheer Athletics because (again my opinion) their routine was better choreographed.

Thank goodness for that. I'd hate to see cheer go in the direction of gymnastics where, although it is enjoyable to watch the skills, I find it boring to watch them perform.

Nelson

-- Edited by Nelson at 11:18, 2007-11-07

I totally agree with you. My daughter started off in cheer when there was just novice, intermediate and advanced. It was such a reward when for the last comp, our team moved up to intermediate. They worked so hard for that. Now, I just don't see it as much. I agree I see the same jumps combinations, the same stunt combinations and the same tumbling over and over again.

In dance we have the opposite -- NO LEVELS. We really need a novice and advanced in some divisions. Some companies allow for it, some don't. It really hurts the moral, when your novice group has to compete against their own gyms advanced group.

Date: Wed Nov 7 11:57 AM, 2007

I agree with Nelson on most of it other than it limiting choroegraphy. I have seen so many great things done with level 1-3 teams with choreography. Creative ways to get in and out of stunts and good ways to get in and out of tumbling. Also I do like the fact that the kids have to learn basic skills in tumbling before they do advance skills such as backhandsprings, tucks, layouts and fulls. Before you just made kids learn to do a backhandspring and we had sooo many injuries. As for as the divisons, there are alot, but would you put those level 1 youth kids against a level 3 youth team. They would get killed all areas. What I hate is the scoresheet requirements. You have to do jump combos instead of just jumps. YOu have to 2-3 pyramids instead of just 1. YOu have to so many body positions to score in this certain area. I don't like that. Just judge on what you see, like they used to.

JillfromAP · Veteran Member

YEAH! ;) i definetly agree with coach Nelson. i remember the good ol days without all these levels...which gave everyone much more room for creativity.

Nelson · Senior Member

JillfromAP wrote:

YEAH! ;)

Yes.

Fierce Coach · GURU

I just think there's too many rules. ALL THE TIME.

OC Mom · GURU

Nelson,

When were there these divisions? Is Em too young for me to remember? Or maybe I just didn't pay attention? I swear I don't ever remember that.

Oh yea, I am sick of the Scorp to Scale double down reload basket toss, etc.... it's driving me nuts. It's almost as if we could predict the entire routine.

I remember the first time I saw Nelson add the "circle" in a routine. (dance or tumbling section) I thought, "thank God, something different". Because we all knew what the stunts had to be.

Everyone run to the sides of the mat now.... here comes the tumbling section.....

Date: Wed Nov 7 9:37 PM, 2007

Wow I agree with you all!!! At Jamfest this weekend I found myself bored by the upper level teams and not because they were not really awesome, but because it was all so so predictable. The judges have dictated even the opening of the routines (ie. standing tucks, fulls etc) and I am personally tired of dance sections that don't dance ( No I don't want them to pump their booty or drop it like it's hot) but I do not want to see more of the same arm motions up and down in and out. faster then slower, then faster and faster.

I also personally think the music needs to be the choice of the kids on the teams , Let them do routines to the music they like!! I know there are rules and some music is not always approprate but, there are ways around that(sound effects etc) but it is really hard watching routines with random music too, and I don't think it would be so hard to get the kids to smile and look like their enjoying themselves if they could just hear their favoriate songs. (sorry just my opinion)

Date: Thu Nov 8 8:22 AM, 2007

At first I was a fan of new divisions, like Level 4. But I think if we went back to Beginning, Intermediate, and Advanced you would see more teams performing closer to their true level. I think Intermediate would be very popular. It's getting so ridiculous driving an hour (sometimes two hours) to a competition only to either be going against nobody or just one other team. We pay a lot of money per cheerleader and to attend these competitions only for them to simply perform, not compete. There's something very wrong about that.

cheerwatcher · GURU

I wish it would go back to beginning beinning, Intermediate and advanced. The levels are way too much now. I wish we could have more competition at every competition. Sure everyone wants to win but it is a lot more rewarding to take 1st against 10 teams or even 2nd at that! With the lack of teams now teams aren't thrilled to get a 2nd place win because there may be only 2 teams in that division. Its silly to me.

Date: Thu Nov 8 9:40 AM, 2007

I've been saying there are too many divisions forever, although whenever I say it, I get all the "Progressions, progressions, progressions" people attacking my opinion. I would love to go back to the days of when the only divisions were, age differentiated, small or large, coed or all girl. I would even grudgingly accept novice, intermediate and advanced again. But I absolutely HATE this 5 level stuff. They may say its for progressions, but I still believe, its just a way to justify crowning 20 National Champions at one competition, thereby enticing more teams ($$$) to attend. After all, who doesn't want to claim the title of "National Champion"? It certainly has watered down the competitions to the point where Worlds is almost one of the only competitions I find worth my time to follow, at least you know that no division is gonna have a paltry 2 or 3 teams competing. Which is ironic, since Worlds is the competition that I would actually like to see have less competitors.

Date: Thu Nov 8 9:53 AM, 2007

Nelson wrote:

*warning* The following is my opinion, take it for what it's worth

I don't think it's so much the number of companies hosting competitions, I think it's the plethora of divisions offered.

I'm not a fan of the all the levels we have. I'm not a fan of having 5 levels. It was enjoyable when it was just one. I can see a case for three (Novice, Intermediate, Advanced) but 5 seems overkill. And now with Open divisions as well...I find it's too much.

I'm not a fan of the levels because in my opinion, it is weakening choreography. Teams are now so focused on covering the score sheet that routines become repetitive. They're worried about "maxing" out their level and jamming in as many skills as possible. Even level 5 teams where they are performing top level skills. I can't tell you how over kick double baskets I am.

Gone are the days where choreography really mattered. Where innovation in movement and visual effect were what coaches strived for. Now we HAVE to have basket toss sections. We HAVE to have multiple jumps (is it just me, or does everyone do the same jumps? Hurlder, clap turn, pike, clap turn, double or triple toe to a tumbling skill...yawn.) We HAVE to max out our stunts.

The silver lining in this cloud is last year's World's competition in the Large Coed Division. Top Gun, who in my opinion had fewer skills than Cheer Athletics, beat out Cheer Athletics because (again my opinion) their routine was better choreographed.

Thank goodness for that. I'd hate to see cheer go in the direction of gymnastics where, although it is enjoyable to watch the skills, I find it boring to watch them perform.

Nelson

-- Edited by Nelson at 11:18, 2007-11-07

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS! WAY TOO MANY LEVELS. 3 WOULD BE NICE. IT WOULD (in my opinion) GIVE THE ATHLETES MORE TO STRIVE FOR. WORK HARDER - YOU KNOW. EXAMPLE-IF LETS SAY CHEERGYMS IS ON TOP OF THEIR GAME IN JR LEVEL 4 (small) AND CA BULLETS ARE AT THE TOP OF THEIR GAME JR LEVEL 4 (large) THEY REALLY HAVE NOTHING TO STRIVE FOR BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY WILL WIN. IF THEY COMBINE THE DIVISION - NOT ONLY WILL ONE TEAM HAVE TO PUT MORE ATHLETES ON THE FLOOR, BUT IT WILL BE A GREAT COMPETITION. I PERSONALLY THINK SMALL/LARGE FOR EVERY DIVISION IS ENTIRELY TOO MUCH. I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE SMALL GYMS OUT THEIR AND THIS WOULD HURT YOU, BUT AS A WHOLE I THINK IT WOULD BE A PLUS.

Flip Flopper · Member

Anonymous wrote:

Nelson wrote:

*warning* The following is my opinion, take it for what it's worth

I don't think it's so much the number of companies hosting competitions, I think it's the plethora of divisions offered.

I'm not a fan of the all the levels we have. I'm not a fan of having 5 levels. It was enjoyable when it was just one. I can see a case for three (Novice, Intermediate, Advanced) but 5 seems overkill. And now with Open divisions as well...I find it's too much.

I'm not a fan of the levels because in my opinion, it is weakening choreography. Teams are now so focused on covering the score sheet that routines become repetitive. They're worried about "maxing" out their level and jamming in as many skills as possible. Even level 5 teams where they are performing top level skills. I can't tell you how over kick double baskets I am.

Gone are the days where choreography really mattered. Where innovation in movement and visual effect were what coaches strived for. Now we HAVE to have basket toss sections. We HAVE to have multiple jumps (is it just me, or does everyone do the same jumps? Hurlder, clap turn, pike, clap turn, double or triple toe to a tumbling skill...yawn.) We HAVE to max out our stunts.

The silver lining in this cloud is last year's World's competition in the Large Coed Division. Top Gun, who in my opinion had fewer skills than Cheer Athletics, beat out Cheer Athletics because (again my opinion) their routine was better choreographed.

Thank goodness for that. I'd hate to see cheer go in the direction of gymnastics where, although it is enjoyable to watch the skills, I find it boring to watch them perform.

Nelson

-- Edited by Nelson at 11:18, 2007-11-07

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS! WAY TOO MANY LEVELS. 3 WOULD BE NICE. IT WOULD (in my opinion) GIVE THE ATHLETES MORE TO STRIVE FOR. WORK HARDER - YOU KNOW. EXAMPLE-IF LETS SAY CHEERGYMS IS ON TOP OF THEIR GAME IN JR LEVEL 4 (small) AND CA BULLETS ARE AT THE TOP OF THEIR GAME JR LEVEL 4 (large) THEY REALLY HAVE NOTHING TO STRIVE FOR BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY WILL WIN. IF THEY COMBINE THE DIVISION - NOT ONLY WILL ONE TEAM HAVE TO PUT MORE ATHLETES ON THE FLOOR, BUT IT WILL BE A GREAT COMPETITION. I PERSONALLY THINK SMALL/LARGE FOR EVERY DIVISION IS ENTIRELY TOO MUCH. I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE SMALL GYMS OUT THEIR AND THIS WOULD HURT YOU, BUT AS A WHOLE I THINK IT WOULD BE A PLUS.

Let me guess.. you are from a large program? If a program is small its for a reason. should we just not have small programs?

Date: Thu Nov 8 10:11 AM, 2007

Nelson wrote:

*warning* The following is my opinion, take it for what it's worth

I don't think it's so much the number of companies hosting competitions, I think it's the plethora of divisions offered.

I'm not a fan of the all the levels we have. I'm not a fan of having 5 levels. It was enjoyable when it was just one. I can see a case for three (Novice, Intermediate, Advanced) but 5 seems overkill. And now with Open divisions as well...I find it's too much.

I'm not a fan of the levels because in my opinion, it is weakening choreography. Teams are now so focused on covering the score sheet that routines become repetitive. They're worried about "maxing" out their level and jamming in as many skills as possible. Even level 5 teams where they are performing top level skills. I can't tell you how over kick double baskets I am.

Gone are the days where choreography really mattered. Where innovation in movement and visual effect were what coaches strived for. Now we HAVE to have basket toss sections. We HAVE to have multiple jumps (is it just me, or does everyone do the same jumps? Hurlder, clap turn, pike, clap turn, double or triple toe to a tumbling skill...yawn.) We HAVE to max out our stunts.

The silver lining in this cloud is last year's World's competition in the Large Coed Division. Top Gun, who in my opinion had fewer skills than Cheer Athletics, beat out Cheer Athletics because (again my opinion) their routine was better choreographed.

Thank goodness for that. I'd hate to see cheer go in the direction of gymnastics where, although it is enjoyable to watch the skills, I find it boring to watch them perform.

Nelson

-- Edited by Nelson at 11:18, 2007-11-07

Amen Nelson! I completely agree. Its annoying how all the routines are based on what to do on the score sheet. I think its time to spice it up! I dont want to see the same old triple toe back. Soon its going to become triple toe Full. There is hardly any room for originality.

Date: Thu Nov 8 10:14 AM, 2007

Flip Flopper wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nelson wrote:

*warning* The following is my opinion, take it for what it's worth

I don't think it's so much the number of companies hosting competitions, I think it's the plethora of divisions offered.

I'm not a fan of the all the levels we have. I'm not a fan of having 5 levels. It was enjoyable when it was just one. I can see a case for three (Novice, Intermediate, Advanced) but 5 seems overkill. And now with Open divisions as well...I find it's too much.

I'm not a fan of the levels because in my opinion, it is weakening choreography. Teams are now so focused on covering the score sheet that routines become repetitive. They're worried about "maxing" out their level and jamming in as many skills as possible. Even level 5 teams where they are performing top level skills. I can't tell you how over kick double baskets I am.

Gone are the days where choreography really mattered. Where innovation in movement and visual effect were what coaches strived for. Now we HAVE to have basket toss sections. We HAVE to have multiple jumps (is it just me, or does everyone do the same jumps? Hurlder, clap turn, pike, clap turn, double or triple toe to a tumbling skill...yawn.) We HAVE to max out our stunts.

The silver lining in this cloud is last year's World's competition in the Large Coed Division. Top Gun, who in my opinion had fewer skills than Cheer Athletics, beat out Cheer Athletics because (again my opinion) their routine was better choreographed.

Thank goodness for that. I'd hate to see cheer go in the direction of gymnastics where, although it is enjoyable to watch the skills, I find it boring to watch them perform.

Nelson

-- Edited by Nelson at 11:18, 2007-11-07

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS! WAY TOO MANY LEVELS. 3 WOULD BE NICE. IT WOULD (in my opinion) GIVE THE ATHLETES MORE TO STRIVE FOR. WORK HARDER - YOU KNOW. EXAMPLE-IF LETS SAY CHEERGYMS IS ON TOP OF THEIR GAME IN JR LEVEL 4 (small) AND CA BULLETS ARE AT THE TOP OF THEIR GAME JR LEVEL 4 (large) THEY REALLY HAVE NOTHING TO STRIVE FOR BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY WILL WIN. IF THEY COMBINE THE DIVISION - NOT ONLY WILL ONE TEAM HAVE TO PUT MORE ATHLETES ON THE FLOOR, BUT IT WILL BE A GREAT COMPETITION. I PERSONALLY THINK SMALL/LARGE FOR EVERY DIVISION IS ENTIRELY TOO MUCH. I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE SMALL GYMS OUT THEIR AND THIS WOULD HURT YOU, BUT AS A WHOLE I THINK IT WOULD BE A PLUS.

Let me guess.. you are from a large program? If a program is small its for a reason. should we just not have small programs?

we need to keep the small/large gym divisions seperate. I went with my kids one year to a nationals where the small and large were combined. Guess who made it to finals? The large gyms, Duh, they were able to do more with stunts and more tumbling. Don't go too crazy on this post.