Can you double team on level 3 and 4 or level 2 and 3

Date: Mon Oct 8 8:34 PM, 2007

RE: Can you double team on level 3 and 4 or level 2 and 3

Cheer411 · Senior Member

I have a question for everyone.

Would these same senario apply to those that are cheering in their "home" gyms and then on the All-American team?

If there is a cheerleader that is competing at the 2/3/4 Senior Level at their home gym and then is on the All-American Senior level 5 team would this apply to that cheerleader? Or does this rule only apply to what is going inside the single "Home" gym?

Could there be a loophole here?

Date: Mon Oct 8 9:29 PM, 2007

Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't they already plan on having teams that were under level 5 and then an All American Team at level 5 before the teams were even formed? I mean, before they even knew what talent they had it was determined they would compete at levels under 5 at their local gyms. I'm pretty sure it was advertised that way before signups. If that is the case then they had planned on level 5 athletes performing under their level from the start, in which case I would have to put that in the same category as sandbagging. Right???

Date: Mon Oct 8 9:33 PM, 2007

To clarify the above post, by "under" I mean below. Under level 5=level 4, 3, 2

Date: Mon Oct 8 10:06 PM, 2007

Well to be fair they did nothing illegal and it just happened to work out better for them to just have level 5 teams on All American.

Date: Tue Oct 9 7:58 AM, 2007

If you have one girl on a team that has lvl 5 skills and the rest have lvl 3...Is that sandbagging? If her gym only offers a lvl 3 then what should they do?

Cheer4ca · Member

You guys are right USA mostly caters to hs and college but they give bids for worlds and you cant cross compete at worlds so I wouldnt necessarly say no allstars goes to usa cause many allstar in socal do . I think its up to the gym owner whats right or wrong for their team. Until competitions across the board change the rules to be the same things like this will keep happening.

Date: Tue Oct 9 8:58 AM, 2007

Even if half your team has level 5 and the rest have below that level, I wouldn't necessarily consider it sandbagging to go level 4. I think when you are competing below your ability as a team, you are sandbagging. When you know that your level 4 team is perfectly capable of competing against level 5 teams, you are sandbagging. It's really that simple IMO.

Date: Tue Oct 9 9:16 AM, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Even if half your team has level 5 and the rest have below that level, I wouldn't necessarily consider it sandbagging to go level 4. I think when you are competing below your ability as a team, you are sandbagging. When you know that your level 4 team is perfectly capable of competing against level 5 teams, you are sandbagging. It's really that simple IMO.

Ya but its not fair when your level 5 cheerleaders on your level 4 team get to go out on the floor and throw their double fulls and triple toe backs not to mention the kick doubles. The comp companies should make some kind of guidlines restricting what skills you can throw at each level. Some sort of leveling system to even the playing field!! That way it's fair. Know what I mean?

Tamara · cheergyms.com Master Poster

Anonymous wrote:
Ya but its not fair when your level 5 cheerleaders on your level 4 team get to go out on the floor and throw their double fulls and triple toe backs not to mention the kick doubles. The comp companies should make some kind of guidlines restricting what skills you can throw at each level. Some sort of leveling system to even the playing field!! That way it's fair. Know what I mean?

Please forgive if I'm wrong, I'm slightly out of the loop nowadays. But that's exactly the way it is. If you're on a level 4 team, every cheerleader can only compete *up to* level 4 skills, even if one (or more) can do level 5 skills while practing at the gym.

*edited to add*

-- Edited by Tamara at 10:37, 2007-10-09

Date: Tue Oct 9 9:40 AM, 2007

Lol I was about to reply with the same answer...

Date: Tue Oct 9 9:47 AM, 2007

Ohhhh so there really is a leveling system in place? That's good. I was just reading through this thread. It made it seem like it was unfair for Lev 5 athletes to compete in lower levels. I guess I red it wrong. Phewwwww!

Date: Tue Oct 9 9:59 AM, 2007

Be honest everyone. How many level 2 teams have girls on them that can throw level 3 skills. For that matter how many level 3 teams have girls with level 4 skills.... I could go on and on. I know for a fact that a gym in our area. Had a level 3 team at the begining of the season and drop them down to level 2 at the end. They said they did it because they wanted to have the girls compete at thier true level. Ok but at the beginning of the season over half the team where throwing standing back tucks. Is this sandbagging?

Date: Tue Oct 9 11:26 AM, 2007

Again I gotta say that as a team (not individually) if you know in your hearts your team has the talent and ability to perform at a higher level but you perform at a lower level because it's more convenient for your gym, you want the wins, whatever the reason is, it's wrong. You can justify it all you want, but it's wrong. If you know you're really at that level then good for you for being realistic. Too often I see the opposite, teams who have no business in a higher level than they are capable of, for reasons that make no sense.

Date: Tue Oct 9 11:33 AM, 2007

Now what fully justifies you as a team at a certain level? Say that your team is amazing stunters can do level 4-5 stunting, also has amzing jumps, clean motions, but is only lacking in the tumbling department. Say they only have 2-3 standing tucks, a couple of layouts, but majority of the team has level 3 tumbling skills.

Is this team a level 3 team?

Is tumbling what truely sets a team in their "level"?

Would this be consider sandbagging a level 3 team?

Date: Tue Oct 9 2:21 PM, 2007

I think this is a very good question! Probably hard to answer. I think some teams make level adjustments based on the competition they are attending too. For a large national like NCA or Cheersport you would need level 5 stunting AND tumbling to compete at 5.

So how do you choose which level to perform at? What do you base it on? Maybe we'll get some insight from coaches... Also when do you try a higher level?

Danny · Senior Member

Maybe this simple formula will clear this issue up. This is how I determine the levels of our teams.

When contemplating competing at a given level you begin to sweat from the realization that the prospect of EVER winning at that level is utterly futile...it's time to direct your attention to the level directly below.

-- Edited by Danny at 17:05, 2007-10-09

Date: Tue Oct 9 7:14 PM, 2007

Danny wrote:

Maybe this simple formula will clear this issue up. This is how I determine the levels of our teams.

When contemplating competing at a given level you begin to sweat from the realization that the prospect of EVER winning at that level is utterly futile...it's time to direct your attention to the level directly below.

-- Edited by Danny at 17:05, 2007-10-09

Love this response... Perfect!