Wow this subject got interesting! You know I'm not even gonna go there but some might want to check their facts before speaking out just my thoughts!

I had a response but since I'm not sure who has their facts wrong, I'm deleting it.  I think I've said enough on this subject.  I just hope those of us who feel the practice is taking our sport in the wrong direction are not in the minority. 

-- Edited by AbbyByTheBay at 17:53, 2007-07-27

Let me clear something up because it was taken the wrong way.  I wasnt saying power was going lower divisions,  I was saying they combine athletes from their sac and modesto gyms.  Just wanted to clear that up they arent doing anything wrong either .  Just an example of combining members to make the team.  sorry I jumbled my words quite a bit and when re read i noticed I needed to come back and state what I meant.  Thanks

Last season my team competed in the level 4 division. We had a very successful year, and one of the few teams that beat us was power cheer. After taking 2nd place to power, i went home checked out their website, and their roster, and came to realize that the vast majority of their senior level 4 cheerleaders also competed in senior level 5. It was shocking, upsetting, and unfair to be on a true level 4 team and to take 2nd place to a team packed full of  cheerleaders with level five skills.
USAF doesn't monitor this, but with cheer being the growing sport that it is, they need to.
 I understand that some gyms have 2, 3 or maybe just a handful cheerleaders with level 5 skills who compete in level 4. I can appreciate making an all american team between 4 gyms, each with a handful of level 5 cheerleaders who would otherwise not be able to compete at level 5. However, there are gyms that take it too far and completely "sandbag" [i think that was the term] the level 4 division. Perhaps a rule should be made that only 10% of cheerleaders that are on a level four team can compete in the level 5 division as well?

Howdy Everyone


It has been a while....

Let me clear a few things up re POWER.  Yes, last year several girls did double on Small Senior 4 and Large Senior 5. 

When we received the two PAID bids from Cheersport, we declined one of them and started to rework our teams.  We started adding many members from our Senior 4 to our senior 5 that had acquired skill that they would be able to use at the Level 5 level.  This was all done becuase there is a non crosscompete rule at WORLDS and we had all 20 of our Small Senior 5 on our Large Senior 5We were blessed to have enough members in our program fill all of those spots and take TWO seperate teams to WORLDS and place 5th and 6th respectively.  Please note that the members were pulled off in a multi step approach and when we received the Paid bid from JAMZ we only had 10 members doubling up on Small and Large.  This allowed us to fall into the proper substituion rule for WORLDS mandated by USASF.

This year we do have two Senior 5 teams (Small and Large) and a Senior 4 team.  No member from POWER currently doubles up between level 4 and level 5, members are one level or the other.  We do have several girls doubling up from Large 5 to Small 5 (8 or so...not 20 like last year).  If both of our teams receive bids again this year (god willing), we will sub out those members doubling on small and insert them with members from our level 4 team that have progressed in their skills.   All members of our level 4 team are aware that there is still the opportunity to move up to level 5 and still have the chance to attend WORLDS.  They are all working hard to be considered for those 8 remaining spots, provided we are lucky enough to have both team receive a bid.

I hope that clears up any concerns regarding POWER and the use of our members.

Cheers

JOHN

I hadn't intended to accuse power cheer of cheating. I apologize if it came off that way, or if my facts were incorrect. The purpose of my post wasn't to show how unfair power cheer is, or say they were cheating to justify my teams loss. My point was that I was on a true level four team, we had one running full, no stunt groups had double downs out of single legged stunts etc... It's no fun for a team like mine to compete against a team that has alot of level five skills. 
 It's not cheating, I understand that girls accquire new skills throughout the season. I feel that at a certain point, once a level 4 team has accquired enough skills to compete in level 5, they should no longer compete in level 4. It just seems logical.
 However, it is a competition and if crossover is legal then who am I to say it shouldn't be done. I know lots of teams have crossover, but for teams that don't, it's hard to keep up. That was my point, i know that each team can probably justify their reason for doing it. Whether justified or not, fair or unfair, it is and advantage. I was just sharing my situation, and the way that a smaller "rookie" team [without the advantage of crossover] is effected.  I apologize if my post was in anyway offensive to power cheer or any others on this board.

-- Edited by cheerlady09 at 14:08, 2007-08-04

Marlon wrote:

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Your frustration is understandable, but POWER was closest to being a true level 4 team. You have to remember, to be a TRUE level 4 team, you need full squad standing back tucks, FULL squad toe touch handspring tucks, majority multiple standing handsprings to a layout and full squad r.o handspring layouts.(all according to the USASF guidelines) I dont even think they met up to those standards of "true L.4" but they were the most successful due to the fact that they were the closest. Just because you have a couple fulls does NOT make you a level 5 team. It just means you have individuals that can do level 5 skills. As coaches, we have to think for the safety of the other cheerleaders on the team, and if they are not ready to be pushed level 5, then why not take them level 4? Or even level 3? If you have 5-7 level 5 cheerleaders and the other 12-15 only have standing hand springs, NOT even close to standing tucks, I would put them in Level 3. And let those level 5 girls know that it is for the best of the TEAM! Remember it is a team sport. And northern california is the worst when it comes to putting their teams in higher divisions and when a team comes along that is true to that level, everyone gets mad and says they are "sand bagging". Can someone please post the meaning of sand bagging and put a reference to which dictionary or source they use?! Thanks! I cant wait to see how many "true" level 4 teams there will be this year!

-- Edited by Marlon at 10:08, 2007-08-08

 

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HAHAHA

Here is the definition of Sandbag-takedn from http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861701095/sandbag.html

sand·bag [ sánd bàg ]

noun  (plural sand·bags)

Definition:

1. sack of sand: a sealed bag full of sand, used in building defenses against gunfire or flooding, or as ballast in hot air balloons

2. bag of sand used as weapon: a small bag filled with sand and used as a weapon in the same way as a blackjack

verb  (past and past participle sand·bagged, present participle sand·bag·ging, 3rd person present singular sand·bags)

Definition:

1. transitive verb protect something with sandbags: to put sandbags in or around something as protection

2. transitive verb knock somebody or something down: to attack or hit somebody or something with a sandbag ( informal )

3. transitive and intransitive verb delay negotiations: to delay negotiations or a business deal in the hope of receiving a more favorable offer from somebody else ( slang )

4. transitive verb coerce somebody: to force somebody to do something by using coercive or crude tactics ( dated slang )

 

Marlon, thanks for your post, you make perfect sense.  I agree with what you're saying.  But here's my question... where would you draw the line?  In your example, you say if you had 5 to 7 level 5's, it's not enough to make a true level 5 team.  I agree completely.  So when is it enough?  When it's half the team?  Over half?   I would be curious to know when you think the numbers are high enough to make a true level 5 team, and also when or if you think there is ever a time when there are too many level 5's on a level 4 team, giving the team what some might consider an unfair advantage.   

Thanks for your post, this is always an interesting subject.

CheerFreak wrote:

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For me, the pertinent question would be:

How many of these cheergyms "level 4" team members competed at Worlds in level 5 last season?

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Well it looks like POWER had 20


Let me clear a few things up re POWER.  Yes, last year several girls did double on Small Senior 4 and Large Senior 5. 

 We started adding many members from our Senior 4 to our senior 5 that had acquired skill that they would be able to use at the Level 5 level.  This was all done becuase there is a non crosscompete rule at WORLDS and we had all 20 of our Small Senior 5 on our Large Senior 5