All NorCal Teams at 1 competition!

Date: Wed Jul 12 6:38 PM, 2006

All NorCal Teams at 1 competition!

Date: Wed Jul 12 8:17 PM, 2006

I think that would be great but I think that sometimes people don't want to compete against the best of Nor Cal and that is why there is a whole seperate set of comps that you see some teams go to. For me there are always the main ones that you know the strong programs will be at. Funny enough you rarely see the smaller gyms at those comps. From talking to friends that have smaller gyms they sometimes have a bad taste in their mouth for those comps because they feel that teams like Power, SBE, Airborne and Cheergyms automatically place well. Its funny to me that they feel that way because the kids from the above mentioned teams work for every new skill and victory. At the same time the above teams don't always win.

Date: Wed Jul 12 9:59 PM, 2006

You are completely right. Those teams do dominate at most of their competitions. You have to think about it in terms of a small gym trying to survive or even get started. If they lose conistently to the larger gyms, their kids get recruited to those larger gyms and those gyms tend walk around competitions like they are the "stuff". 1-2 events are good to see them at, but not every competition. I like the smaller competitions because there is more seating room, better parking, and just not as packed.

Date: Thu Jul 13 8:14 PM, 2006

the reason the big gyms are usually big is that kids do come there because they are good which then means the staff is goood.

Date: Thu Jul 13 9:40 PM, 2006

Ya well many times larger gyms get over on just their name and their is a larger audience for those teams. It's the truth.

Date: Thu Jul 13 9:47 PM, 2006

What the heck did you say?

Date: Thu Jul 13 10:38 PM, 2006

I do agree that smaller gyms don't want to get slammed by larger gyms but I do know that some smaller gyms don't want to deal with the fact the kids of the large gyms take over every seat and the coaches don't take control of their kids. NOT ALL large gyms but a good amount. The kids from POWER were never a problem.

Date: Thu Jul 13 11:22 PM, 2006

I dont agree withthe above statement. We are a medium sized gym and we hang just fine with the big names.

Date: Fri Jul 14 11:35 AM, 2006

It has nothing to do with the size of the gym! "little gyms bite harder". Yall are just crazy! Getting all caught up in "your larger" gym ideas. SIZE DOESN'T MATTER!

Date: Fri Jul 14 12:48 PM, 2006

Size doesn't matter, at most competitions. There are some competitions where you can clearly see that the size of the check written by the program skews the judging - GSSA and USA are good examples. It doesn't matter to them that the "big gyms" teams just got beat at American Championships by the "small gyms" teams. They turn a blind eye to what's going on the floor and just start dishing out trophies based on gym size. And then the rest, for the most part, are no problem. American Championships, Jamz, and others I have no problem with "small gyms" going against "large gyms", because they judge fairly. It's when you can pretty much guarantee that the largest program in the competition is going to rule the day that it's annoying.

Date: Fri Jul 14 1:10 PM, 2006

that's dumb, I think the comment about the bigger checks...lame

Date: Fri Jul 14 1:11 PM, 2006

California Coach wrote:

Size doesn't matter, at most competitions. There are some competitions where you can clearly see that the size of the check written by the program skews the judging - GSSA and USA are good examples. It doesn't matter to them that the "big gyms" teams just got beat at American Championships by the "small gyms" teams. They turn a blind eye to what's going on the floor and just start dishing out trophies based on gym size. And then the rest, for the most part, are no problem. American Championships, Jamz, and others I have no problem with "small gyms" going against "large gyms", because they judge fairly. It's when you can pretty much guarantee that the largest program in the competition is going to rule the day that it's annoying.

I am confused on what you mean? are you saying that at places like gssa and USA they just give out trophies based on the size of the gym. I.E POWER and CHEERGYMS were handed their award? is that what your saying? i could be completely wrong but thats the way it came across, is that what you mean?

Date: Fri Jul 14 1:16 PM, 2006

Do you really think that the company sits down with the judging panel before the competition starts an says " Gym XYZ brought 7 teams to this comp, lets make sure that they all win." I have been judging at the national level for the past two years and that has never happened to me. I think that smaller gyms or less competitive gyms use this as an excuse. Give me a break.

Date: Fri Jul 14 1:48 PM, 2006

I'm just saying what I observe. I don't coach at a small gym, I coach at a large one. And there are plenty of times when I've seen one of my teams win a division that they clearly did not deserve, over teams from smaller programs. I've only seen it happen at a limited number of competitions, but there's just no explanation when 3 or 4 of my 9 teams should have been 3rd or 4th and they win over teams from smaller programs that were head and shoulders above.

I'm not naming names in terms of teams - it's not their fault. And I haven't personally witnessed it in terms of Power, cheergyms, etc, because I am not in Northern California to see you guys compete. But I think when a program puts 12 teams on the floor, and another program puts 3, it's quite apparent to the judges. No one has to sit them down and tell them anything.

Date: Fri Jul 14 1:59 PM, 2006

And just to further clarify what I mean - I had never given the entire thing a second thought until I was at a USA competition and one of my parents said to me "Well, we should be good here today, our kids basically outnumber everyone else's 3 to 1!" My kids earn a lot of their wins, but there are a few that I am sure were "gifts", and I'll be the first one to tell them that. Just because it benefits my program doesn't mean I shoud turn a blind eye to it.

It's no different to me than the comment someone made about teams getting Worlds bids from GSSA just because the right people are on the board there. Organizations and judges can be influenced by a lot of different things.

Date: Fri Jul 14 2:20 PM, 2006

why are all these companies starting seperate small gym divisions if it's just an 'excuse' as you say for small gyms to complain? there must be something to it if they are willing to try and do something about it!

Date: Fri Jul 14 2:45 PM, 2006

They created the Small Gym division because it is true that the depth of talent for Small Gyms is sometimes different than lets say Cheer Athletics who has so many kids to pull from. They did not create it because they know that they 'give the trophies' to the big gyms. I think that is silly.

Date: Fri Jul 14 3:13 PM, 2006

That would be a great dream! The small vs large gym thing is not worth getting into. At our gym we go to the competitions that we know our kids and families enjoy. Cost and the schedule of the comps are also a factor. Best of luck to all!

Jacki, NCP

Date: Fri Jul 14 4:55 PM, 2006

Okay my dream wasn't brought up to start the large versus small gym debate! It was really about having all the gyms at one competition. I have seen plenty of smaller gyms hang tough with the large gyms and win! I love what Jacki from NCP had to say. Pick the competitions that the kids and families enjoy. I have noticed that NCP does not shy away from competitions where the "big dogs" may be. Keep up the great job NCP! Program directors that purposefully avoid competitions because certain programs are there will never succeed. That is wasted energy. Focus on building a strong healthy program not avoiding the large gyms.

Date: Fri Jul 14 5:43 PM, 2006

I truly hope this doesn't make the smaller gyms shy away just cause a larger gym is there. Who would be compete against? I mean really, even though we have many many teams, each team is in their own category. Just cause we have more kids doesn't make our teams any better than a gym with 2 teams. Only our routines and talent can say that. Not the size of our gym. I never even thought of that before.