Scoring in Cheerleading Comps

Date: Tue Jun 13 6:10 PM, 2006

Scoring in Cheerleading Comps

Date: Wed Jun 14 6:15 AM, 2006

Yea, we've had this topic plenty of times before, but you're absolutely right about the inconsistency in scoring. It seems plenty of us are for all comps using the same scoring system, but some out there still believe that each competition should be allowed to have their own (because they have this fear that competitions will lose their individuality, which most of us who have voiced our opinions on this board completely disagree with).

We've gone round and round with this. I see it being the same scoring system sometime in the near future, I just don't think you can avoid it (too many people are pushing for it, including myself).

Date: Wed Jun 14 9:48 AM, 2006

I am new to these boards and haven't gone through any stuff older than about a month - So thanx for letting me know!

Date: Wed Jun 14 11:18 AM, 2006

Yea, I feel your pain also.

Mom Of 7 Years In Cheer

Date: Wed Jun 14 11:27 AM, 2006

I can't imagine how boring routines would look if they were judged purely on the skills you performed. Even if the majority of the judging was on skills. Watching a gymnastics meet, they get golf claps for skills. How boring.

Just a personal opinion. I'll open wide now for those of you wishing to jump down my throat.

Date: Wed Jun 14 11:57 AM, 2006

No, I don't quite agree but I do see your point. I am not so sure it would be totally boring because I think original choreogaphy would be used to set the teams apart. So let's just say that teams would HAVE to do particular stunts, tumbling, etc.... bit it's the over all package that would make one team better than another.

Date: Wed Jun 14 12:28 PM, 2006

I agree with the last post. Nobody suggested the scoring be based just on the skills. I don't know of ANY scoresheet that is like that, do you?

Scoresheets have points for the entire package, divided into individual categories (tumbling, stunts, choreography, level of difficulty, etc...). It's just that some competitions award more points for particular categories, and less for others. If it were me, I would want to attend competitions that have scoring similiar to Worlds.

The day all competitions use the same scoresheets is the day I do my happy dance (which would give me low points in choreography).

Date: Wed Jun 14 1:42 PM, 2006

Thanks for the happy dance laugh.....

Date: Wed Jun 14 5:03 PM, 2006

- wouldn't it be great if all cell phone companies just used the same plan? when you get all the cheerleading companies to use one score sheet, can you work on the cell phone thing?

- want to judge more on skills? good...just make sure you agree to pay more money for registration. in 2 1/2 minutes judges will miss things. they'll miss the girl in the back corner fake her standing tuck. they'll miss the flyer in the back corner land on her stomach on her twisting basket. they'll miss a lot. unless of course you pay for more judges. remember, in gymnastics and diving, its one athlete with a set of judges watching. in cheerleading, its 15 - 35 athletes with 3 or 4 judges.

- so original choreography will set apart the teams? that's the way it should be. but according to others "everyone" agrees that subjectivity should be thrown out (thus judging on skills).

- want to use the world's score sheet? still going to have un happy people. don't believe me? you didn't see the upset coaches speaking with usasf honchos.

suggestion: find all the score sheets from every company you are considering. use them and "mock" judge a competition from tv. if it works out for you, go to that company. if it doesn't, don't go to that company. if you have no choice, go directly to that company and let them know in a professional manner. i'm willing to bet my pet cow that the company may take you a bit more seriously if they spoke with you personally rather than reading it on an anon board.

ps the happy dance...was that sung by digital underground?

Date: Wed Jun 14 5:08 PM, 2006

I don't think people are saying to "throw out" subjectivity in the scoring. They are saying that the baseline should be the same - I shouldn't be able to take a team to American Championships against 5 teams and score first, and take the identical routines/performances to USA or GSSA and get dead last. There needs to be accountability for the subjectivity in the scoring (and believe me, I know it sounds ridiculous, but it's done in gymnastics and skating so it should be able to be done for cheerleading). A judge shouldn't be able to base 30% of their score on "Sure, I liked that routine," or "Nah, didn't care for it".

Date: Wed Jun 14 5:16 PM, 2006

Ooooo, CC, good point there.

Date: Wed Jun 14 11:09 PM, 2006

Agreeing with California Coach, 100%. But what will it take for competitions like USA and GSSA to use scoring similar to Worlds? Unfortunately as long as they continue to make money, and organizations continue to attend, they have no incentive to change. And nobody said the scoring at Worlds is perfect, but the consensus seems to be Worlds is the ultimate competition everyone strives to make it to (it's our Superbowl). So why play by different rules as you venture towards that goal? And even if you have a set of teams you know will never make it to Worlds, I would think it would still be a great feeling knowing your teams (at all levels) placed well based on the same tough scoring they use at the highest competition our sport has.

Date: Thu Jun 15 6:23 AM, 2006

And even so, you would know what your standings are by your score and where you needed to improve verses the teams that went to worlds.

Date: Thu Jun 15 7:45 AM, 2006

Yes Indeed wrote:

Agreeing with California Coach, 100%. But what will it take for competitions like USA and GSSA to use scoring similar to Worlds? Unfortunately as long as they continue to make money, and organizations continue to attend, they have no incentive to change. And nobody said the scoring at Worlds is perfect, but the consensus seems to be Worlds is the ultimate competition everyone strives to make it to (it's our Superbowl). So why play by different rules as you venture towards that goal? And even if you have a set of teams you know will never make it to Worlds, I would think it would still be a great feeling knowing your teams (at all levels) placed well based on the same tough scoring they use at the highest competition our sport has.

I absolutely agree. A few years ago, there was something of a group effort to "boycott" USA because of their scoring policies. However, once they started handing out Worlds bids that all went out the window.

After all - who cares about fairness and right and wrong - they want their bid!

Date: Thu Jun 15 8:13 AM, 2006

Yea well, some of us are still boycotting....

Date: Thu Jun 15 12:56 PM, 2006

Believe it or not USA (I can't speak for GSSA) does not exist to cater to your every wish. They have been in business for over 50 years (that's a whole lot longer than any all star program). They have been the pioneers for cheerleading throughout that time. No, they are not the front runners in the all star market of today, and yes, I have MANY complaints about the way they run the all star side of their business. But having said that, their goal has NOTHING to do with pleasing large all star programs. USA works VERY hard to ensure that EVERY all star team, no matter how small is able to enjoy the competition side of cheerleading. Like every company they would like to have more business, and yes it would be great if they could get some bigger programs to attend their events, but it's not their goal, and they're doing just fine without it.

Now that I've said that, if you don't like their philosophy or you don't like their scoring, don't go to their competitions. If you're looking for a World's Bid there are plenty of other places to go. Leave USA alone, it's not your responsibility to make their business decisions for them, nor is it your job to command them as to what "should" or "shouldn't" do. If you have some constructive criticism call the USA office at 800-886-4872 and let them know, politely, what you think they could do to benefit their company.

I'm not saying USA is perfect, like I said I don't necessarily think that they way they run their all star market is effective, but it's their business to run. Let's give them a break. Just because WE all think that All Star Cheerleading is the most important thing in the world doesn't mean that everyone shares that belief. USA is about a whole lot more than that.

Date: Thu Jun 15 1:13 PM, 2006

Hold on there. We are all entitled to our opinions on this board. We are all allowed to voice our opinions. So you think we should hold back on any criticism we have of USA because what, they've been around a while? Or because what, they're a business and if we don't like it don't go? Unfortunately it's because of businesses like them (in our sport) that we have some of the problems/issues that come up all the time, not just on this board, but on whatisprox as well. How can inconsistency in scoring be a desirable feature in ANY sport?? Come on.

So I say to the last poster, if YOU don't like hearing unfavorable opinions, don't read these message boards.

Date: Thu Jun 15 7:00 PM, 2006

still yawning wrote:

ps the happy dance...was that sung by digital underground?

digital underground did "The Humpty Dance."

I know that I shouldn't know that, but it's a curse.

Date: Thu Jun 15 9:36 PM, 2006

Wow, and you wonder why people are boycotting. With a nasty attitude like that, you just did a world of damage there with that post! I am sure the office will love to hear what you just had to say.

You might want to take a course in customer service. Lord knows you really need it. I truly hope you aren't a spokesperson for the company.

Date: Fri Jun 16 9:11 AM, 2006

USA wrote:

But having said that, their goal has NOTHING to do with pleasing large all star programs. USA works VERY hard to ensure that EVERY all star team, no matter how small is able to enjoy the competition side of cheerleading.

I'm sorry, but I found this flat-out funny, and I'm sure any person who has attended a USA competition in the past 5 years joined me in nearly spitting Coke all over the screen at this comment.

You do realize it was small programs that STARTED the boycott? And that larger programs took a look around and said "You know, this really isn't right" and showed their support by joining as well.

The scoring is a joke. Everyone knows it. It has nothing to do with the size of the gym - it has to do with a ridiculous scoring system for which there is no accountability and an administration that can't even get their act together enough to know the rules with which they judge.