I enjoyed the Comp for the most part. I thought the teams from Cheergyms.com did a great job. The parent team was fun to watch.
Again though the disappointing thing for me is to watch what are obviously level 4 or 5 coed teams come down and compete against level 2 teams. I watched the same team for the most part, at least all the boys were on both teams, compete at level 2 and level 3. In San Jose they competed at a higher level as well. Level 2 doesn't separate coed and all girl, so it really is just silly for them to compete in the level 2 div.
I guess I don't understand the mentality ofwhat I see as the equivalent of bringing a High school Varsity basketball team down to compete with a group of JV teams and then get excited when you win. I know that our gym doesn't do this and I appreciate that, level 2 kids get the chance to showcase their level 2 skills and hard work instead of having all the tumbling runs being done by another level team member.
I 100% agree. The gym bashing is not called for especially when the season is almost over. Also, it is very clear which program you are talking about. Of the boys that you speak of.... only one can tumble higher than level 2. Which makes the rest of the boys level two cheerleaders. There is nothing in the rules that state it is illegal for them to be on the teams. If they have the skill of a level two cheerleader but are also on a level five team who cares? There are several teams that do that and I am pretty sure a lot of the programs do that around here. So there is no need to start gym bashing or trying to disrespect other programs because they win. What the gyms do is their own business and none of yours.
I 100% agree. The gym bashing is not called for especially when the season is almost over. Also, it is very clear which program you are talking about. Of the boys that you speak of.... only one can tumble higher than level 2. Which makes the rest of the boys level two cheerleaders. There is nothing in the rules that state it is illegal for them to be on the teams. If they have the skill of a level two cheerleader but are also on a level five team who cares? There are several teams that do that and I am pretty sure a lot of the programs do that around here. So there is no need to start gym bashing or trying to disrespect other programs because they win. What the gyms do is their own business and none of yours.
We must be talking about different gyms, because the team I am talking about had almost all the boys on the level 3 team and I personally watched them throw tucks. It isn't R Tides. And I am not bashing, I am just stating that I do not understand moving down to win in a division (L2) that doesn't sepaprate coed and all girl.
The gym bashing wasn't directed at you. And clearly it couldn't be Riptide as they weren't even there this weekend. The only other gym that had a level three and level two team there was fame. One boy had a tuck yes... the other One that had a tuck was a filler Because one Of the level two boys broke his foot. Its not cheating and You have to do what you have to do to make sure the team continues after an injury. So many teams do that. Nor cal Riptide cheergyms there's nothing wrong with it. And as I mentioned before, the boys have level two tumbling skills, the fact they stand out on the team clearly makes it easy to target them which is unfair.
The gym bashing wasn't directed at you. And clearly it couldn't be Riptide as they weren't even there this weekend. The only other gym that had a level three and level two team there was fame. One boy had a tuck yes... the other One that had a tuck was a filler Because one Of the level two boys broke his foot. Its not cheating and You have to do what you have to do to make sure the team continues after an injury. So many teams do that. Nor cal Riptide cheergyms there's nothing wrong with it. And as I mentioned before, the boys have level two tumbling skills, the fact they stand out on the team clearly makes it easy to target them which is unfair.
I still think they should separate the coed and all girl teams. It is more than tumbling, the stunts and everything are different when you have big strong boys on the team. I hope they change the rule. But whatever, my complaint really is the coed vs all girl thing I think it makes no sense. Maybe boys don't make a difference in youth and mini, but senior teams, no matter the level they have an unfair advantage in my opinion, so separate them.
-- Edited by J.J on Wednesday 9th of March 2011 11:37:20 AM
I's always wondered why the cross competitor thing has caused such an uproar. I personally dont mind it, especially since the level 4 or 5 cheerleader can only do level 2 skills when competing with a level 2 team. It just helps me to step my game up as a coach. =)
I think most gyms use crossovers. We even give an option on our registration form at the beginning of the year for them to choose to do more than one team, and of course only let them cross "down," because putting them on a higher level team than what they have skill for would make them less competitive. Typically, we have between 3-5 crossovers per team (on junior-senior teams) and less for the younger ages, because their parents usually don't want the little ones doing that much. We also put crossovers on if we NEED a backspot, or a flyer, or a base and don't have one or if someone quits, moves, or gets hurt.
In the USASF vote this year, they discussed this at length, and it was voted that athletes be limited to 2 teams per event, and that no more than 25% of any team could be made up of crossovers. I think this will help in those divisions where entire teams, or close to it, are crossing down to compete with WAY less advanced teams. However, I think that they also should have addressed the number of levels that you should be able to cross down to. Maybe only one level up or down, so you wouldn't have level 4 teams competing with level 1s. Crossing them up that many levels if they don't have the skill is dangerous, and crossing them down that many levels if they do is unfair. Even though this would affect our teams, too, I'd be willing to comply if everyone had to. This may be hard, though, for small programs that only have 2 or 3 teams...
We have a Sr Coed 2, and we did go to an event this year that separated them all girl and coed... I think it might have been GSSA or American Masterpiece... Don't remember. But I think there have to be enough coed/all girl teams registered to have competition in order to consider it. We liked it, though, it felt more fair...
-- Edited by RiptideAllStars on Thursday 10th of March 2011 11:23:25 AM
Thanks Cory B. for stating your position so clearly and courtously. I will never understand all the drama I have witnessed in this sport, and the backstabbing between programs. My husband and I work with the parents of other gyms to fundraise for my kids and we have the best times together. I know that our different programs compete against each other, but it would be nice to see the programs actually root for each other instead of tearing each other down all the time.
One thing you all should remember is that small programs rely heavily on their cross overs especially when their are injuries. I know some of you were talking about my son along with the other boys on fame, and my other son was the one who broke his foot on the level 2 team. I am sorry you feel it is unfair that these boys are on the team, but as it has been noted they are limited in what they can do on the lower levels. I know for a fact that even some of the large programs use crossover kids in their level 2 teams from the 4 and 5 leveles just to win not because it was a necessity. We have been beaten by those large programs, and it just made us work that much harder to win. In addition, we have girls who are just as strong if not stronger than some of the older boys so that is no excuse. No offense guys!
I thought there were many talented teams at this comp, and it was really fun to watch you all!
I think if we all didn't see the same particular athlete on all Fame teams it wouldn't be so obvious. I remember at Jamz in Vegas seeing the same one who is front and center on the level 5 coed team (who did a beautiful full) on the Sr. Large Level 2 team. Isn't he always on that team, or is it just to fill in when someone is injured? Are we confused and that's actually his brother? Anyway, you can see how others might not think it's fair. If you don't have enough on a level 2 large because of injuries or whatever, why not drop to small? I don't see the smalll gym vs. large gym as an excuse for level 5's on level 2 teams; never have, never will.
its called maxing out if they make the age cut i see why not? how many more rules does there need to be? NO CROSS COMPETITING at all, geez give them a break every gym does it. and if theyre not braking rules which they arent they have every reason to celebrate :P
I have a daughter at Cheergyms.com and we had a great time at the competition and are so proud of all the cheergyms.com teams. We are Youth 1 and no girls on our team are crossovers. They are all just Youth 1 cheerleaders. Really enjoying this season =)
So are you saying that the work of all the other kids on the keam does not matter because one kid who is on the level 3 and level 5 teams is on the level 2 team even though he can only do level 2 stunts or tumbling. If so that is a weak arguement for no crossovers. Yes my younger son broke his foot, and he was replaced by another boy on the level 3 team, but he will be back for the last comp. We have had more than on injury this year.
I am sorry you have issues with fame, but since they are not breaking any rules I guess you will have to deal with it. It sounds more like jealousy to me rather than an actual criticism.
We don't harbor any bad feelings for those teams that have been stacked just to beat us. If they were good we give them their props and work harder to win the next time.
I think most gyms use crossovers. We even give an option on our registration form at the beginning of the year for them to choose to do more than one team, and of course only let them cross "down," because putting them on a higher level team than what they have skill for would make them less competitive. Typically, we have between 3-5 crossovers per team (on junior-senior teams) and less for the younger ages, because their parents usually don't want the little ones doing that much. We also put crossovers on if we NEED a backspot, or a flyer, or a base and don't have one or if someone quits, moves, or gets hurt.
In the USASF vote this year, they discussed this at length, and it was voted that athletes be limited to 2 teams per event, and that no more than 25% of any team could be made up of crossovers. I think this will help in those divisions where entire teams, or close to it, are crossing down to compete with WAY less advanced teams. However, I think that they also should have addressed the number of levels that you should be able to cross down to. Maybe only one level up or down, so you wouldn't have level 4 teams competing with level 1s. Crossing them up that many levels if they don't have the skill is dangerous, and crossing them down that many levels if they do is unfair. Even though this would affect our teams, too, I'd be willing to comply if everyone had to. This may be hard, though, for small programs that only have 2 or 3 teams...
We have a Sr Coed 2, and we did go to an event this year that separated them all girl and coed... I think it might have been GSSA or American Masterpiece... Don't remember. But I think there have to be enough coed/all girl teams registered to have competition in order to consider it. We liked it, though, it felt more fair...
-- Edited by RiptideAllStars on Thursday 10th of March 2011 11:23:25 AM
I like this post, the last paragragh especially. It really gets to what I tried to get at.. Thank you
