Hello Cheer Fans, I have a question about competitions and how the judging is so much different. Has anyone else noticed that team a and team b may compete at GSSA then go to USA, JAMZ, UCA etc and place totally different. I mean the performances are the same but Team A gets 1st at one and Team B gets 4th. Then Team B gets 1st and Team A gets 4th. Some of the time I feel like the judges are just trying to even out the trophies? If you are a judge or familiar with judging I especially want to hear from you. Remain, anonymous if you like. I just want the facts. Some of the time i feel like we always win at some competitions and we always loose at others. Does this sound familiar?
Thank you your cheer neat freak. "Clean those motions"
agree lurker...also...sometimes it is just judged sports...I was a skater....it's good to teach our kids to just focus on doing their best no matter the outcome...sometimes it doesnt seem fair but yet there is another lesson...lifes not always fair....do your best and move on...:)
Hello Cheer Fans, I have a question about competitions and how the judging is so much different. Has anyone else noticed that team a and team b may compete at GSSA then go to USA, JAMZ, UCA etc and place totally different. I mean the performances are the same but Team A gets 1st at one and Team B gets 4th. Then Team B gets 1st and Team A gets 4th. Some of the time I feel like the judges are just trying to even out the trophies? If you are a judge or familiar with judging I especially want to hear from you. Remain, anonymous if you like. I just want the facts. Some of the time i feel like we always win at some competitions and we always loose at others. Does this sound familiar?
Thank you your cheer neat freak. "Clean those motions"
Yes, this sounds very familiar. I would like to here from some judges too!
The big problem competitive cheer has right now is the different scoring methods. Every competition company scores a bit different, so naturally, some teams do much better at some competitions than others. I really thinks this needs to be fixed. USASF should issue one unified scoring sheet for EVERY competition. I also think this would really help in getting cheer to become more recognized as an official sport. If ALL competitions are judged equally, cheer instantly becomes more of a standardized sport, and I'm sure we would all love to see cheer at the olympics someday =]
We had a situation this weekend that caused me to be concerned about interpretation of rules from competition to competition. We have a team that competed a routine last weekend at Jamz. We even had them evaluate it for legality issues during warm-ups.....no problems. The exact same routine was performed at Jam Glam and we received a deduction for an "illegal" component in our pyramid. How is it that the same USASF rules can be interpreted so differently? If these rules leave so much room for interpretation shouldn't the hosting company provide someone to evaluate routines during warm-ups (we asked for someone at Jamfest and they didn't have anyone available). I'm not posting this to question placement but because I am concerned about the legitimacy of our sport if the rules that are in place can be interpreted so dramatically different. Any thoughts?
We had a situation this weekend that caused me to be concerned about interpretation of rules from competition to competition. We have a team that competed a routine last weekend at Jamz. We even had them evaluate it for legality issues during warm-ups.....no problems. The exact same routine was performed at Jam Glam and we received a deduction for an "illegal" component in our pyramid. How is it that the same USASF rules can be interpreted so differently? If these rules leave so much room for interpretation shouldn't the hosting company provide someone to evaluate routines during warm-ups (we asked for someone at Jamfest and they didn't have anyone available). I'm not posting this to question placement but because I am concerned about the legitimacy of our sport if the rules that are in place can be interpreted so dramatically different. Any thoughts?
Yes, a couple. There is room for interpretation in every single sport. Yesterday in the NFL, there were some calls that could have gone either way. The former Head of Referees was in the booth and after he claimed a call would be overturned, it wasn't. So subjectivity exists.
But you have to find out if it was just an interpretation or if someone just looked at something wrong. Or maybe (and this happens often) a pyramid done correctly is legal, but miss an ankle grab or have a "spotter" late to a spot and a pyramid can quickly have illegal elements.
Lots of specific questions to get answered before questioning legitimacy.
Thanks Aca Dad (I was hoping you would reply-you always have good insight). The stunt was performed correctly both times-it does seem to be an interpretation issue. But you make a good point-it does happen in other sports too. I guess it is the whole "any given Sunday" issue. It is what it is.
Thanks ACEDad (I was hoping you would reply-you always have good insight). The stunt was performed correctly both times-it does seem to be an interpretation issue. But you make a good point-it does happen in other sports too. I guess it is the whole "any given Sunday" issue. It is what it is.
Just note that I'm not saying you were treated correctly. Just that we didn't have enough information.
I can see where people would feel that certain teams get favored by certain companies (it has seemed like that in past years) but "knock on wood" I have to agree that ever since MOST companies have adopted the varsity scoring system, things have seemed to be more fair this year than in past years. I think it all depends on the company and how consistent they are at catching deductions and what not which probably explains team A getting 1st at one event and 4th at another.
I know a couple of teams who performed at a JAMZ event in October and weren't given any deductions, then went to Victory Cup in November and/or GSSA in December and were called to the judges table for legality deductions for the same exact routine! Last season my team went to a USA regional and placed 2nd with no deductions, and then were told in warm ups at USA nationals that one of their stunts were illegal! Go figure that one...it was the same company but a different event! Until there is a definite solution to these kinds of problems, who knows if placings will ever seem 100% fair.
I can see where people would feel that certain teams get favored by certain companies (it has seemed like that in past years) but "knock on wood" I have to agree that ever since MOST companies have adopted the varsity scoring system, things have seemed to be more fair this year than in past years. I think it all depends on the company and how consistent they are at catching deductions and what not which probably explains team A getting 1st at one event and 4th at another.
I know a couple of teams who performed at a JAMZ event in October and weren't given any deductions, then went to Victory Cup in November and/or GSSA in December and were called to the judges table for legality deductions for the same exact routine! Last season my team went to a USA regional and placed 2nd with no deductions, and then were told in warm ups at USA nationals that one of their stunts were illegal! Go figure that one...it was the same company but a different event! Until there is a definite solution to these kinds of problems, who knows if placings will ever seem 100% fair.
I would also say some legality judges are better than others. There are many legality judges who let things slide on favor of the gym. Most coaches get mad because they are being called on it, but in my opinion you should fix whatever you were called on. If they are showing you a video and the rule that is being violated then how can you argue that, rather it is a loose interpretation or not.
On the scoring side, many of the independent companies such as Jamz, GSSA, Nor Cal Victory cup, WSA, and Aloha use their own scoresheets. I personally like the Varsity brand the best. I think the more people really read score sheets they will choose competitions that suit their routines.
