My daughter has been with the same cheerleading company for many years. As a parent I had questions. I just did not know the industry and never really asked for proof of anything. We just found out that they are not licensed or insured. We have been fundraising for years and we have no idea were the money has gone. We have worked so hard for a company that was not legetimate?
I just found out they finally applied for a business license just last month. I am so upset!!! What if there was an accident and they are not insured or licensed? With cheerleading being such a dangerous activity I am suprised there is no governing body checking on these. I really want my money back! I dont want to reward a company that has done things fraudulantly, because what if something happened to my daughter who is liable? Also as a small business owner myself I had to scape and cut corners to feed my family while starting my business and someone can just claim to be a company for years and nobody noticed. I work so hard to follow the law and I am very angry.
What are my rights? Does anyone other programs know about this? How do other owners feel who have done things correctly and struggled to?
It sounds like someone is in deep crap. I'm not suprised to hear this because there are so many people that think that they can just start a program. This makes me very angry because it is people like this that end up in the the news giving cheer a bad name when they have injuries from non certified staff, uninsured and unlisensed programs. I don't know how to verify a gym and I want to know. Maybe someone like john, morton or danny would no. Does this all star alliance that is based in california verify their gyms? If not they should. I would ask for a refund because they cannot legally accept payments for something that they are not lisensed for. I would just recommend everyone ask for copies of the lisense and insurance today and make sure your gym holds the necessary documents if not, or if they have not and been doing busness ask for a refund and file with the bbb and by all means do not allow your child to participate. As a parent it is important we don't just assume these teeams are lisensed.
Go to USASF website and check to see if yuor gym is a member. Thats a start. Also as a business you have to display your business license at the place of business. If they do not do this ask them to see it. Also in regards to insurance, if they are a stand along program and not a "buddy" program with a gymnastics or some other type of program then they are required to hold a insurance policy. You can ask to see the policy or which company the policy is with. Then just give the insurance company a call and ask if they are insured. I believe that your customer has a right to know if you conduct business legally. It may cost more but in the long run it is the right way.
Seems like every gym should have their business license displayed somewhere, since we have heard of issues like this with non legit gyms. Regarding getting your money back, if you mean for the entire season your child has participated in, personally I dont think you would get it back or even should get it back since you have had all the practices, all the competitions, etc... Just my opinion, Im sure others will disagree. But anything from this point on that you have paid for, yes, now that you know they are not legit you should definitely get a refund. And my guess is everybody will be fleeing, even if they were to get a license now, since they have deceived everyone (who wants to be part of that)?
Seems like every gym should have their business license displayed somewhere, since we have heard of issues like this with non legit gyms. Regarding getting your money back, if you mean for the entire season your child has participated in, personally I dont think you would get it back or even should get it back since you have had all the practices, all the competitions, etc... Just my opinion, Im sure others will disagree. But anything from this point on that you have paid for, yes, now that you know they are not legit you should definitely get a refund. And my guess is everybody will be fleeing, even if they were to get a license now, since they have deceived everyone (who wants to be part of that)?
I agree...You can't eat the whole hamburger and then decide you don't like it and want your money back.
The USASF Parent Action Committee sees this as a HUGE issue. Somehow, we have to find a way to get information about cheerleading (rules, gym certification, etc., etc.) to parents but we are stymied as to how to do it.
Obviously, having parents find out that their gym has become USASF certified will assure them of most of the OP's points.
But how do we do it? We don't have an email list or addresses of parents.
We've set up a USASF PAC facebook fan page (please join!!), but that's not going to get everyone by any measure.
I know this doesn't really help this specific situation, but please let me know if you have ideas.
Any suggestions appreciated. If you want to send them privately, feel free to use bill.presson@gmail.com
Seems like every gym should have their business license displayed somewhere, since we have heard of issues like this with non legit gyms. Regarding getting your money back, if you mean for the entire season your child has participated in, personally I dont think you would get it back or even should get it back since you have had all the practices, all the competitions, etc... Just my opinion, Im sure others will disagree. But anything from this point on that you have paid for, yes, now that you know they are not legit you should definitely get a refund. And my guess is everybody will be fleeing, even if they were to get a license now, since they have deceived everyone (who wants to be part of that)?
I agree...You can't eat the whole hamburger and then decide you don't like it and want your money back.
I disagree!!!, If you eat the whole hamburger and then it makes you sick not only are you entitled to your money back you are entitled to pain and suffering.
It is not about getting a refund. It is about getting what I paid for. I take responsibility for not checking it out. They however mis represented themself and for that they should not be rewarded. They should be penalized simply because if you have people following the rules and then someone just does it illegally they should be penalized in the form of reimbursment. It is all about liability. So I dont agree with the eat the whole hamburger crap. Sorry.
Interestingly enough, I our 26 years of business I have never once had a customer ask for proof hat I was a legitimate business or if I had insurance. For the record, American is a corporation and we have always had LOTS of insurance.
Not sure if it real matters to you, the customer, if the owners have properly set up their business, BUT you should be very concerned that they have liability insurance (1 million minimum but 2 or 3 million better). This would also show you that the insurance company thinks they are legit as they check legal records for proof. Should a life changing accident occur that insurance policy will be critical.
Secondly, you should be concerned that they have the ability to follow thru financially with what they are promising. You are going to invest heavily in uniforms, shoes, tuition, and in many clubs like ours you'll prepay your competition fees. So... are they putting funds away to pay those costs or are they using it to pay todays bills? How strong our they financially... if a bunch of kids are going free/scholarship his may mean they aren't collecting enough to pay their bills.
By the way, even being a member of most any association, like USASF, is not necessarily proof of any thing except that they paid that association money. To the best of my memory I can't recall ever having to prove anything to join any association. USA Gymnastics asks which insurance company you use but not for proof.
My advise is to join clubs that have a consistent and solid past over several years. If you're joining a new club, then look into the character, past history, and financial resources of the owner. If that owner is young and an inexperianced coach... BE CAREFUL. If the people starting it have been part of one failing club after another... be veeeery careful (actually, run!).
Hope that helps.
-- Edited by AmericanOwner on Friday 26th of March 2010 08:01:20 PM
Interestingly enough, I our 26 years of business I have never once had a customer ask for proof hat I was a legitimate business or if I had insurance. For the record, American is a corporation and we have always had LOTS of insurance.
Not sure if it real matters to you, the customer, if the owners have properly set up their business, BUT you should be very concerned that they have liability insurance (1 million minimum but 2 or 3 million better). This would also show you that the insurance company thinks they are legit as they check legal records for proof. Should a life changing accident occur that insurance policy will be critical.
Secondly, you should be concerned that they have the ability to follow thru financially with what they are promising. You are going to invest heavily in uniforms, shoes, tuition, and in many clubs like ours you'll prepay your competition fees. So... are they putting funds away to pay those costs or are they using it to pay todays bills? How strong our they financially... if a bunch of kids are going free/scholarship his may mean they aren't collecting enough to pay their bills.
By the way, even being a member of most any association, like USASF, is not necessarily proof of any thing except that they paid that association money. To the best of my memory I can't recall ever having to prove anything to join any association. USA Gymnastics asks which insurance company you use but not for proof.
My advise is to join clubs that have a consistent and solid past over several years. If you're joining a new club, then look into the character, past history, and financial resources of the owner. If that owner is young and an inexperianced coach... BE CAREFUL. If the people starting it have been part of one failing club after another... be veeeery careful (actually, run!).
Hope that helps.
-- Edited by AmericanOwner on Friday 26th of March 2010 08:01:20 PM
Thank you for this great advise and information. I did do research they are not licensed nor do they have insurance. They advertise that they were established in 08. They are not licensed or insured.
Interestingly enough, they are members of USASF and NCAA... To bad I have my tennis shoes on and I am running far and fast.
Yes, Infact I did ask about it, particulary why this is not posted, and she said she doesnt post this type of information. I asked why she said becuase it has her personal info on the documents. I understand... except that It would seem that there should be a way she could white out the private data. The only reason I decided to ask was because the gym is a mess and just seems to be a safety violation walking in the door with the crap everywere, the leaking roof near the electrical outlets. Just a hazardous environment.
WOW I think you are talking about the cheer gym we just left! It sounds EXACTLY how this owner operates and also the condition of the building. I know of 26 families who left recently after the season ended because of the complete disorganization and constant drama she creates. She bad mouths her coaches and parents the minute their backs are turned. She is not being honest with families over not having a license and so much more. Is this normal for owners to do this as we have been involved in cheer for a yr?
I was on the boards not that long ago talking about why we left our old gym. It was for the exact same reasons. Then everyone thought it was a gym about 400 miles south of our old gym. My point is this happens every where! We did find a better gym, MUCH better owner and coaches. Good gyms are out there just harder to find. Don't let all their trophies and banners fool you. Our old gym only won when they were in the dividision by themselves! Yes, winning isn't everything, but come on the money we spend for good coaching staff a win once in a while would have been nice. My girls worked very hard and never missed missed practices. The funny thing is even when they cheat they lose! And the only people who think their good is them! They have moved a couple of miles way changed their name but still the same!
