Opinions on Worlds?

Date: Mon Jun 13 7:55 PM, 2005

Opinions on Worlds?

Date: Mon Jun 13 9:32 PM, 2005

Honestly, I think that people hold teams that go to World's on a kind of pedestal, as if they are way above the rest of us, and to tell you the truth, I wasn't all that impressed! Yes, they are very talented teams. But they also, all made mistakes, and I've definitely seen cleaner performances!

I definitely DO NOT think that World's are out of reach for cheergyms.com teams. I hear the coed teams from both Motions and Pyramids are quite good this year, so why not set a goal that high? If you have the talent on your team, why not push that talent EVEN FURTHER? Why not strive for perfection, to be among the absolute best? Why settle for the skills you have, when you can push for more? Start out talented, work hard, and never stop pushing to be BETTER, because no matter if you ARE the best in the world, there will always be people bitting at your heals to be better, and there is ALWAYS room for improvement.

I honestly believe that if the kids want it badly enough, World's is DEFINITELY a reachable goal, but you really gotta WANT IT.

Good luck to all the teams this year.

Date: Tue Jun 14 9:03 AM, 2005

All I have to say is that WORLDS hosts the best of the best!! Even the teams that one in Dallas and Cheersport or Florida....didnt place very well. The calliber...is that correct spelling.. of WORLDS is a totally different level than West Coast cheerleading. Ya..we work to get full squad standing tucks and R.o. bhs fulls....but whats that compared to half a squad throwing standing fulls, EVERY cross pass a specialty with at least one or two doubles...Switch kick double and kick full kick full baskets....Its a little out of some of the west coast teams league. Although, on another note...the west coast has represented well. American Cheer and POWER, both really strong teams, and Argueabley the best All Girl and Coed team in the West Coast, represented with much amazement!!! But. they have to work harder now just to try to get a bid. Teams from all over are going to be scrambling to get those bids..you never know..Texas lonestar may come to GSSA in sac this year...or Georgia To JAMZ...or Cheer Athletics to USA Nationals...then whose going to represent the West Coast?!?!? I feel if you are going to prepare your team..you better prepare them for a HUGE PUSH!!!! Cheergyms.com has VERY TALENTED teams, that probably will get bids..but what happens when you get to worlds...will you be satisfied gettting 15th out of 15? Even with hitting a FLAWLESS routine?!?! Just thought I would throw this out there for debate. Have a good day!!!

Date: Tue Jun 14 10:30 AM, 2005

Is it just me or does it seem like more and more focus is being put on gymnastics ability on todays cheerleading teams. If find I quickly lose interest in watching competitions where very talented teams spend a large portion of their competition routine throwing tumbling passes. I start to get a little confused as to whether I'm watching a gymnastics competition or a cheerleading competition. Would be nice to see a more rounded balance of cheerleading, dancing, stunting and tumbling skills represented in todays routines.

How does everyone else feel on this subject?

Date: Tue Jun 14 12:26 PM, 2005

This is a great subject to talk about. Especially when you consider that we are teams from the West Coast.

B Real - There's no doubt that the talent level of teams going to Worlds (and even some teams that didn't get bids) are amazing. There are teams out in the West Coast, especially here in Nor Cal, that would be absolutely ecstatic if they had full squad standing backs. I've never had a squad with full squad standing backs, or a squad that had half the team with full twisting layouts. And teams like Miami Elite, Stingray and Top Gun (just to name a few) wouldn't even blink twice at Nor Cal's most talented teams. So what happens if a team from cheergyms.com (let's not jump the gun here, NO ONE from cheergyms.com, or any program for that matter, has proved anything yet this year) goes to World's and places 15 out of 15? Simply put, they took the first step. Just being invited to a competition of that caliber is an honor in itself.

Wondering - I know I'm not watching a gymnastics competition, because in Gymnastics they don't throw fulls or doubles with bent legs/crossed legs/arched bodies/etc. But you do have a good point. In today's cheerleading society, we pre-judge teams by the number of fulls they have, or the number of standing backs. For example, you've never seen team A perform, but if someone told you they had 15 out of 30 fulls, you'd think they would be off the hook. I don't like that line of thought either. I'd love to see not only a balanced routine, but a routine that isn't broken down into sections (i.e., a pyramid section, a jump section, a tumbling section, etc) rather just a 2 1/2 minute show. Tumbling is a big part of cheerleading routines today, not just on the ground tumbling but using these skills in the air as well...but wouldn't it be nice to mix it up a bit and not watch another person do a full on the diagonal?

And lastly, before I make this too long, I think West Coast teams have an advantage. West Coast routines are different; they're innovative. Maybe I'm the only one that notices this, but aside from the skills, it seems as if many teams in World's had the same routine. I'm blown away by the skills, but it almost seems to me as if there is a standard outline for a routine that everyone uses. But that's just my opinion, and from a guy who has never made it to that level of competition, take it for what its worth.

Date: Wed Jun 15 12:07 PM, 2005

I think all the teams that went to worlds were AMAZING. Some of those teams double downs were BEAUtiful and their tumbling was far above what the west coast is at right now. I agree, it is an honor just to go.

Personally I love west coast style too, especially southern california. Its always new, fun and exciting.

I think that worlds will get more exposure every year, so it will get much harder to make it their every year.

But question, what do you think about JAMZ and GSSA giving out bids? Do you think that one of the dozens of teams that can hang in finals at NCA will start coming out to a JAMZ competition and blow everyone away JUST to get a bid? Dosnt that defeat the whole purpose? Or does it make it just more compedative?

Cant wait for this season! It will be the best yet!

Date: Wed Jun 15 2:48 PM, 2005

15/15 in worlds...SO WHAT!!!!your there, u have the experiance, lets not get so competitive with the placing, not that many people get to say they went there, i highly belive a cheergyms team could go, who cares how good they place?

Date: Wed Jun 15 2:58 PM, 2005

AllCheergyms would have to work 6000000 times harder this to even place 15th at a worlds comp. Those others team there that go to wrold literally cheer 24/7. That's the only way to make at worlds. JAMZ giving a bid is wrong because there comp at las vegas is a little to easy to get first espeically when the hard teams to beat don't go. Keeep trying.

Date: Wed Jun 15 3:06 PM, 2005

How do you know the "hard teams to beat" won't go this year?!?! I know Cheergyms.com teams are, so you better re-think how easy it will be to get first at JAMZ or any company for that matter. :D

Date: Thu Jun 16 11:37 AM, 2005

As a parent of a cheerleader who went to worlds this year, I have to say it was off the hook. It was making the big show, and entirely different than a competition. Each team whom I met was friendly, supportive and cheered all the teams on. I think Worlds will get bigger and better with each year. I hope my daughter is lucky enough to go again. Watch out west coast-teams will be shopping bids.

Date: Thu Jun 16 3:36 PM, 2005

I love that a parent said, "off the hook".

I think we may just see some out of town teams at both JAMZ and GSSA. And no, I don't believe that either JAMZ or GSSA giving a bid is wrong. Consider, American won the paid bid from GSSA last season and they did exceptionally well placing third place out of seven in the Large All Girl division. That's not too shabby, and if you think JAMZ or GSSA (in my opinion, the talent level at both comps this year will be equal) is wrong, what about the other 4 companies that gave bids to the teams that placed behind American? Should just NCA and Cheersport give bids?

We'll see more out of town teams come and compete at both JAMZ and GSSA, at least I believe so. And I hope they do, the more the merrier. It would be incredible for all the teams in our area to get exposed to cheerleading in the south and the east coast, and vice versa.

And as I said before, let's not jump the gun with cheergyms.com going to World's, there's no definite lock. You're right, cheergyms.com is going to have to work hard to get a shot at a bid, maybe not 60,000 times harder (try telling Motions Maroon to work 60,000 times harder...I doubt it's possible) but hard work as well as total improvement (hard work...most improved...ring a bell?) will get cheergyms.com well on the way.

Date: Thu Jun 16 10:55 PM, 2005

"try telling Motions Maroon to work 60,000 times harder...I doubt it's possible"

You're right Nelson, I dont think could work that much harder anyways. However i DO think that if we do work hard enough, we can make it to worlds this year.

A team that wins a National Champion from JAMZ might not compete against a National Champion from NCA. For Example, Team JAMZ will not go to any competitions that Team NCA does. How can they both be national champions?

The whole point of worlds is to compete against the best of the best. I think that if a team from the west coast gets a bid to go to worlds and compete against southern and eastern teams, it would not only give experience but also show an athlete's dedication, drive, and skill.

Even after watching worlds on TV, theres no doubt in my mind that with the heart, the mine, and the soul, any team with the drive, dedication, and hard work could make it there.

Date: Fri Jun 17 2:01 PM, 2005

What I meant was that not a alot of teams go to JAMZ. I went to JAMZ one year in Vegas and it was only cheergyms and I think no limit that went. I meant to say that it would easy to get a bid there becuase teams like Power and gymstars and other teams don't really go to JAMZ. Worlds is going to tough for everyone this year I think. I just think that no matter who goes all the teams are gpoing to have to step it up especially cheergyms. Though these from the south and east coasts are on a differetn level then we are here. They not be perfectlly clean but they have teams with a lot of skills that some of wish we had. That was the point I was trying to get acrossed.

Date: Fri Jun 17 8:46 PM, 2005

I agree, we are definately on a different level of cheerleading standards out here on the west coast, however that should just give us the motivation to get that far and to make it to worlds. That is the true topic here-- setting goals this high and whether it is good or bad.

I say good. Anyone else?

-B

Date: Sat Jun 18 8:17 AM, 2005

Every kid on the east/south coast begins the same. Yet their teams dominate. Why do you think that is? Every single one of you can do just as well but it takes determination and dedication. Ifyou don't get there as fast, it's not the location of the gym or what's in the water, its the cheerleaders (the entire team's) work ethic and coaching.... no other excuse for that one.

Date: Sat Jun 18 8:29 PM, 2005

Well, yes I see what you are saying, however I have been a part of a gym for five years now and I see the work ethics determination and dedication that our gym puts forth.
To say the cheerleaders need better work ethic (in our case),......... from experience, our members do the best they can with what they art given!!
Maybe if the West coast gyms really do want to place at the top at Worlds, the "Upper people" such as owners and coaches need to do some major homework such as choreography, etc... to give these kids what they need to go out and have a chance there. Otherwise... just stay complacenet here in CALI and be happy with where we all place and live with it.
To blame this on the work ethic of the cheerleaders of the West coast I feel is unfair to them. I personally know how much time they put in, and in addition, dedicate all of the time spent trying to be at the top!
SO West Coast gyms... let's step up to the challenge and the do the homework necessary and make the changes needed to go to Worlds and show them who we are!

Go So and Nor CALI !!

Date: Sun Jun 19 4:09 PM, 2005

Wow, when you put it that way it seems simple. You should open a gym, do the homework and go to worlds with all the dedicated kids in California.

Oh wait........few things you might wanna do first.
1) Talk the cheerleaders into giving up all other activites so they can be in the gym 5 days a week with 3 privates per week.
2) Explain to the parents that the above will cost them at least $6000 for the year.
3) Figure out a way to generate alternate income because if Nor Cal kids can't be on those 1 or 2 elite teams they won't be on any team at all.
4) When you do your homework, you'll find that even the Southern teams hire California choreographers so that won't be a problem.
5) Try to explain to the families that for the cheerleader to be getting the most out of her training he or she should be on two teams. Then ask for the extra $1200 it will cost them.
6) Ask the youth cheerleading programs if they will just shutdown. Until they go away you'll always have the Dad weighing his options. Uhhhhhh $2500 for a 12 month program that has mandatory practices orrrrr $600 for a 4 month program that is inferior in every way but he doesn't know it nor does he care.
7) Start an ad campaign to tell everyone not to be afraid to try-out because they "won't make it".
8) If you're lucky enough to find 2 coaches much less 5 or 6 qulaified to coach at a World Level ask them if they can make coaching their full time job to work with all your kids that are now in the gym 5 days per week. Oh then figure out how to pay them each at least $30,000 per year. Oh then hope they never want raises. Oh then hope another gym doesn't try to hire them away. Oh then make sure you can come up with the money to make them all CPR certified, First Aid certified, USASF certified, TB tested, and fingerprinted.
9) You'll need a master plan to retain your most talented kids and male cheerleaders without offering some kind of scholarship. This isn't a big problem in Nor Cal right now but it's coming.

I don't mean to a pessimist and believe me, no one wants California to contend like I do. Afterall, All Star cheerleading was born in Northern California. We should want to represent. I have work with and choreographed for teams all over the country. We just deal with obstacles that other parts of the country don't have. It's not an excuse and it CAN be overcome but it's just not easy. Definitely not as easy as just hiring the right choreographer or making a few changes in our gyms. Forcing your gym to reach a world level can have costly consequenses. Do YOUR homework. Look closely at the California gyms that have World worthy teams. In many cases it's a real give and take.

Keep working for it Cali. We'll get there.

Date: Sun Jun 19 5:31 PM, 2005

Not a rebuttal but just some thoughts...

1.No one needs to give up their other activities and be in the gym 5 days a week with 3 privates. That's a little over the top... but would be great if it could be done, wouldn't it?

2. 6 thou a year??? Are you commuting to So Cal??? hehehehe

3. There are plenty of kids who would be on the non-elite teams. Everyone has to start somewhere. And when your gym has a team or two that comeptes in Worlds and is in "contention" for the title, believe me.... IF YOU DO IT, THEY WILL COME (from a famous baseball movie if you don't get it)

4. Everyone hires choreographers. Even if it's your own coach, they are still being "hired". If you choose to go outside your organization, that's your choice on how your money is spent, but either way.... it's still hiring someone.

5. No one needs to be on two teams to get the most out of their training. It's what's put in the hours, not the hours put in.... but I am sure we are all aware of that.

6. Shut down the youth teams? Are you serious? There is your FUTURE of your gym!!! Those are the ones who can be taught more, faster and sooner. Those are your assets!!! Never drive the little ones away. And if you don't have a youth team, you are soooooooo missing out on your future!!! And dads do care, by the way.

7. This one didn't make sense at all....

8. Your coaches don't need to work full time at the gym. Not in the beginning anyway. AND your coaches should know how to coach at that level anyway! How will your teams progress at all if they don't know MORE than your girls? I know all these coaches out there are doing it cause they love it. And only pay them 30 thou a year FULL TIME??? Where do you live???? Not here in CA. That's rent!!! hehehehe

9. That's tough but that's what your parent booster club should have in place already. Businesses to provide scholarships. You can get into college with this talent and it's benificial to the businesses to provide some sort of assistance. ESPECIALLY since it's a tax write-off.

Every part of the country has these problems. Ask them. You will see. They have just "done their homework" and figured out a solution. There is a way. No one "forces" their girls/guys and gym to be a world contender. It's something that has to be desired. And the work ethic of the teams is a huge part of it. No one was saying that the work ethic was inferrior at any gym, it was just noted that it was a two way street. 5 hours a week just isn't all that much to ask for and more isn't all that out of the question either. Take a good look at how your time is spent out of the gym. That time in front of that TV or wandering the halls of the mall that you have wandered a gazillion times before could be spent improving your technique in the gym. Yes, we all have lives, yes we all are busy, yes we all would have to make that extra trip to the gym.... but isn't that what life is about? Doing what you love and giving it your all. Being the best you can be other than being at the mall or in front of that television? If you want to win, you have to make the extra effort and go that extra hour at the gym. When you walk off that matt with that trophy and jacket..... you'll know you did it cause you WORKED FOR IT.....

THAT is the difference.....

Date: Sun Jun 19 6:22 PM, 2005

I think what it all comes down to is THE KIDS. Sure, great coaching and coreography is an absolute neccessity, but that only gets a team so far. The real question is, how bad do you want it?

I'm going to use Motions Maroon team as an example. Going to World's has been a topic brought up by a few members on this team. How do I know? Two of the guys are my brothers, who just started their cheerleading endeavor. This team has 5 hours and 15 minutes of scheduled practice time a week. My brothers, along with the other 2 boys and a couple of the girls on the team are in the gym almost everyday the gym is open. Or for 2 hours after practice is over. Or at both scheduled open gyms.

Now you ask, whats my point. Out of these gym ratters, only one boy started the team with what would be considered "World's worthy" talent.. Standing full, specialty double passes, partner stunt capability, etc. Out of the other five that I'm using as an example, 2 of the boys have unassisted tosses, 1 girl has a now consistent full on the floor, 1 girl has a full on the track, both girls are coed stunting for the first time, all 3 boys are working their double fulls on the track with 1 of them landing a few, and all 5 have a standing half on the floor. And all of these are BRAND NEW skills since tryouts.

If the kids in California wanted it badly enough, it can be done with out the coaches asking them to commit to 5 days a week, 3 privates, 2 teams, etc. Power, American, and Stars Extreme are all noteworthy Cali teams that competed in World's this year. If the kids trully "Do what they love, and love what they do," then THEY WILL make the choice to be in the gym extra. Its amazing what can happen when kids love their gym and their coaches. So the question becomes, How bad to Cali kids want it?

Date: Sun Jun 19 10:34 PM, 2005

Amen Amac.............

Your new team members sound great. Now how does one get the rest of the team to have the same attitude? Some have the cheer "bug"... some don't. Some have parents who are willing to drive anytime, even if it's inconvienant (sp?) and some have parents who are willing to complain, even if it's inconvienant.....

But you are so right. And yet, EVERYONE loves that winning feeling, don't they??? Well, you won't get that feeling if you don't put in the hours. Plain and simple. Worlds or not.... you gotta decide when you are ready to move on up.... to the top.