Level 4.2 :new:

CheerleaderForLife · Newbie

Level 4.2 :new:

tracy · Veteran Member

Pretty much every gym.

Say good by to the SENIOR 2 teams this season. The 4.2 will replace the the SENIOR 2 division.

Then the next thing you know you are going to see a SENIOR 4.1 team and SENOR 4.3 divisions. Just give it some time this is going to happen. USASF will push for these categories when the SENIOR 2 division is eliminated. They will see the trend and try to satisfy the desires of the cheerleaders.

Do I think it's right? Not really. But does it bring in revenue for the gyms - maybe, competition hosts - yes, and ultimately USASF? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't like this trend on the safety side of things. Cheerleaders will never learn the progression of stunting properly and be pushed to stunt level 4 from the start of their cheerleading experiences. It doesn't give them time to build strength and this is where the injuries will occur.

MyTake · Senior Member

Why do you think the Senior 2 division will slowly disappear because of 4.2?? I dont see that happening. I see many teams competing in the Senior 2 division now that the open category is gone. A lot of Senior 2 teams are composed of older athletes new to cheerleading; I cant see a coach throwing them into level 4 stunts.

Having said that, my personal feeling about 4.2 is that I hate it, it makes no sense to me. There arent other sports that make these kinds of exceptions, catering to those who dont have the skills and dont want to work towards them.

AirborneOwner · GURU

Tracy,

I think we will always have the Senior 2 division, its a vital division for newer athletes . I also would be very suprised if they ever did away with it, what gives you the idea that it is going that direction?

Cheerisme · Member

Well... the question was what teams are planning to have it this year? Not how do you feel about it. I think there is already a thread where you have all posted how you feel about it.

POWER website says they will have one. Other than that, I have no idea?

Anyone else know?

AirborneOwner · GURU

You need a V8 =).

tracy · Veteran Member

AirborneOwner wrote:

Tracy,

I think we will always have the Senior 2 division, its a vital division for newer athletes . I also would be very suprised if they ever did away with it, what gives you the idea that it is going that direction?

As much as I don't want this to happen, I ultimately believe it will happen.

Here is a senario for you:

I'm a senior aged cheerleader with only a bhs. I am currently on my High school

cheerleading squad and we aren't governed by levels and rules like all stars. We get

to stunt just as we were level 4 and 5. I really want to do All-Star cheerleading.

GYM A: Offers a SENIOR level 2 team.

GYM B: Offers a SENIOR level 4.2 team.

If I am going to have to choose between gyms I am going to choose the gym that

has the senario that is closest to my current cheerleading talents. That would be

an easy selection for me. It would be the 4.2.

Now remember I am a high school aged cheerleader and status is everything in my

life. If I can boost my skills to others at school I am going to boost that I am on a

more challenging team.

This would even be the case if I were a beginning cheerleader. Status is everything

in a teenager's mind. They aren't looking to make sure they are taught the

proper progress. They just want to say they are level 4 status. It sounds better

then level 2.

My fear is that gym owners will offer the 4.2 over the 2 just so that the numbers of

their gym will increase. Especially, the small gyms. It's the small gyms that will

no longer participate in the level 2 divisions. Ultimately, in the end the level 2

division will dwindle and the competition hosts will no long provide the category.

This will force all level 2 teams to convert to 4.2.

Like I said I don't want to see this happen but I really think it will.

Look at what the Open divisions did to the Non-Open divisions. The first season - 2007/08 the open divisions appeared only a handful of teams participated. The next season - 2008/09 it seemed like everyone jumped in the Open divisions. Guess what happened to the Non-Open divisions, the counts when down. Now, we are back to the pre-2007/08 divisions. It didn't work.

It's just a matter of time to watch this play out this season. My money is on fewer senior 2 teams and way more senior 4.2 teams.

Britney · Member

AirborneOwner wrote:

You need a V8 =).

why does this person need a V8? that was rude, because you are a gym owner, that gives you the right to be rude? or assume you know everything?

AirborneOwner · GURU

Hi there Britney,

Not sure how old you are butt, telling someone they need a V8 is not rude....I was just playfully stating that they seemed upset over nothing.

Sorry that you are over analyzing my posts. Remember, this is just cheerleading.

Have a CHEERFUL Day!!!

Nicole

ps. I see that you are new on the boards, hope you have a successful season where ever you cheer!!!!

Cheerisme · Member

Well I didn't think it was rude! I thought it was funny... but I have a dry sense of humor so.

Thanks anyway though Britney.

Nicole, not mad just stating facts. Just thought I'd bring the thread back to what the true topic was.

AirborneOwner · GURU

No worries!!! Have a good one!!!

MyTake · Senior Member

Topics almost always turn into discussions and may drift away from the original question.

Tracy, you bring up an interesting scenario. Heres another thought to add: if small gyms feel they need to offer a 4.2 division just to bring people into the gym, their 4.2 will be going against large gyms who have both. My guess (and its an assumption, which I know is bad to do) is that if Power has a 4.2, they will also have a Senior Level 2, I should check their website. If a large gym has a 4.2 and a Senior Level 2, their 4.2 will consist of athletes who really can do level 4 stunting. So the team that was thrown together as a 4.2 for marketing purposes will not stand a chance against a "true 4.2". The smaller gym would be better off creating a division that matches the talent on their team; at least that way they will have a chance. What good is bringing athletes into a gym by enticing them with a level 4 stunting team if they dont do well at competitions, you know?

tracy · Veteran Member

MyTake: I see your point. Let me ask you something. I know that Power has two gyms. Are these to teams in the same location? Or is one location in one gym and the other team is in the second location?

The team that brings a "True level 4.2" will more than likely be from a Large gym - Power for example. It would be difficult for a small gym to completely field a "true level 4.2" or even a "true level 2". There will be non-tumblers on these teams for sure from the small gyms.

-- Edited by tracy on Thursday 11th of June 2009 06:24:01 AM

MyTake · Senior Member

If a large gym from the same location fields a true level 4.2 team and also has a sr level 2 team, I think their sr level 2 team would be on the same level as a small gym's level 2 team since they took their higher level athletes on the 2 and put them on a 4.2. So in that respect the sr level 2 teams from smaller gyms should be able to compete just fine.

xpressjag · Senior Member

The main reason I see 4.2 developing is due to the large demand of advanced tumbling coming into play with all star cheerleading. Every year, many of the larger gyms max out the score sheet with LOTS of tumbling or you see small gyms who put many strong tumblers on their teams and it looks similar to gymnastics. Many gyms were losing athletes to high school teams because those kids were not getting the tumbling, so this is another option. High school teams don't stress the tumbling as much. You can make it with little to no tumbling.

Almost all the level 4.2 teams I have seen are a mess. The tumbling is usually not clean and the stunts always look scarey. I would stick with the normal grid ir your not good at teaching advanced level stunts.

tracy · Veteran Member

"Almost all the level 4.2 teams I have seen are a mess. The tumbling is usually not clean and the stunts always look scarey. I would stick with the normal grid ir your not good at teaching advanced level stunts." -OUCH! I won't say that. I think some of the teams were great. The All-level videos could validate that.

Oh I have not doubt that large gyms will be able to field great Senior 2 teams and give the category some real competition. It's the large gyms that will remain in this category. It's the small gyms that will move out.

I still go back to my example. If there is a choice to select a gym with a Senior 2 or another gym with a Senior 4.2 the cheerleader will go with the gym with the 4.2. It just sounds more G-A-L-M-O-R-O-U-S!

Momof4 · Member

I like the idea of 4.2 teams.
It gives team's who don't have the tumbling, but have the strength to do higher stunting skills. It seems more popular back east.

MyTake · Senior Member

Yeah, it will be interesting to see what happens. I still predict that if the large gyms have both a senior level 2 and a 4.2, the smaller gyms will have a better chance against the senior level 2 teams from these larger gyms because they (the larger gyms) moved their more experienced level 2 athletes to 4.2, which would leave the sr level 2 teams to consist mainly of athletes new to cheer. That is one good thing (and in my opinion the only good thing) that might come out of this new money making division. I still find it interesting that the assumption is its easier to field a team with level 4 stunts than level 4 tumbling. How many times have we seen flyers falling left and right on level 4 teams, even though they have decent tumbling? Too many to count IMO.

Cheerisme · Member

If a large gym from the same location fields a true level 4.2 team and also has a sr level 2 team, I think their sr level 2 team would be on the same level as a small gym's level 2 team since they took their higher level athletes on the 2 and put them on a 4.2. So in that respect the sr level 2 teams from smaller gyms should be able to compete just fine.

Well since we are in discussion mode here... this is my take:

I don't necessarily agree with this. Here's why: The larger gym will always have the advantage on all levels. When a gym (like POWER for instance) has roughly 200 kids they have a lot more room to make teams that are true to level. They make enough teams to cover most possible levels and will likely not have to add non-tumblers certain levels. A small gym (say it has 60 memebers) is limited in what it can do with certain girls. Say for instance they get 3 12 year olds who should be level 1 but the options in the gym are Senior 3 or Youth 1, what do they do? Make a team of 3 and place them in Junior 1? Options are limited.

I think Senior 2 teams are very competitive for the most part. POWER (again for example had 2 very strong Senior 2 teams last season, I beleive one from each location.) Just checked the website and see that it looks like they will not have a Senior 2 team at either gym but will have a 4.2 from both Sacramento and Modesto. No doubt these teams will bring the level 4 stunts.

MyTake · Senior Member

I have to admit I am surprised they (Power) wont have Sr Level 2 but only Sr Level 4.2. It means all their level 2 tumbling Seniors can either do level 3 or level 4 stunting, even Seniors new to cheer (I didnt check to see what Sr Level 3 teams they are fielding). This season will tell us a lot about this level, since gyms seem to be jumping on it.