Watching Routines Online- Yes or No?

Yay4cheerDIVA · Senior Member

Watching Routines Online- Yes or No?

CaliCheerWatcher · GURU

Personally, I dont see why it matters. I feel if you dont want anyone to see you, then Dont Compete. It is so dumb to me when people have their videos taken off of youtube. Like seriously, get over it. furious

I also think if you really spend serious time studying your competitors videos your lame smile

lol

Fierce Coach · GURU

How do you get a video taken off of youtube? Thats impossible! So you're telling me... gyms contact a rep from Youtube and say please take this off?? And they listen? That's the most ridiculous thing I've EVER heard of, if that is the case. To me, all star cheerleading is my passion and nothing could EVER replace it, but acting like it's the MOST IMPORTANT thing in the world (so important that you'll do anything to get it off the internet), is insane. Dying/starving children, breast cancer, aids in Africa, the autisim epidemic, global warming, and the future of this country is what people need to worry about. Spending energy and time to take these cheerleading videos off Youtube is just dumb. Let people enjoy your performance... good or bad, and worry about the important things in life.

ACEDAD · GURU

Fierce Coach wrote:

How do you get a video taken off of youtube? Thats impossible! So you're telling me... gyms contact a rep from Youtube and say please take this off?? And they listen? That's the most ridiculous thing I've EVER heard of, if that is the case.

This is exactly what happens. The gym asserts a weak (to me at least) argument that it is a "copyright" violation. Now I'm not talking about a video that was bootlegged at a comp that doesn't allow outside cameras. I'm talking about ANY video.

The argument is that they own the choreography.

I think it is incredibly stupid.

CheerFan06 · Member

Well, it is creative work that they have often paid for and/or spent a great deal of time creating. It fits the legal definition of copyright regardless of what the majority of the cheer fans may want. You do NOT have to "register" something with the government to have a right to control how your creative work is seen/distributed.

Copyright FAQ

What can be copyrighted? Note #4

All that it takes to get a video taken off of youtube is simply to email them and ask.

We all realize that many people enjoy watching other teams' videos. However, that doesn't automatically make it our right to be able to watch them for free at our whim. How much fun it is to watch doesn't determine whether coaches have a very legal right to get videos of their (often minor) athletes taken off the internet.

You may pay to see a movie in a "public place", but that doesn't mean that you can video it and upload it to the internet. You can buy a book (or even check one out of the library) but you can't email everyone copies of the entire text. You can purchase a CD, but you can't legally distribute it on Napster or Limewire.

I realize that this will be an unpopular opinion. However, I think that if someone doesn't want a video of themselves to be on YouTube, they should have the right to get it taken down. That far outweighs our "right" to get to watch it.

All of this applies to cheer music as well, by the way.

-- Edited by CheerFan06 at 11:15, 2009-02-02

flipkidjudge · Senior Member

Do some coaches use YouTube to rip off other teams ideas? YES!!! Is cheer music traded, ripped, and cut so that your hard work ends up in someone else's music YES!!!! Do coaches/parents, and kids attempt to size up their competition by scouring YouTube the second the offical event competition schedule comes out? YES!!! Are there just some honest to goodness fans who just want to see well-executed routines and see teams that they have only heard of or might not get a chance to see all year? YES!!!

There are ways to post videos of your team or performances and control who has access to see them. YouTube is the most popular but there are other programs out there that will work too. Gyms need to find a way to manage this increasing issue and deal with it in house as much as possible. Our policy is no one posts videos unless authorized. Authorization usually comes AFTER we have changed the routine so what is being uploaded is not what will be competed at the next competition. So for teams/parents that are scouting (and the reality is more people are scouting opponents not just watching it to be watching it) they may get an idea but not always see the whole package. This is actually the first year since I have been here that we have uploaded videos from the current season.

The issues with YouTube are (to me) not when a gym posts their own videos because obviously they want them to be seen, but when competitors post videos of other gyms. Many uploads are not the official vendor videos, but people recording themselves. In a setting where videotaping is allowed there is little that can be done, but I always ask what is the reason they posted it? The angles may not be the best, and of course the motive in posting is usually not supportive of the other program. They may be looking to trash a competitor just by reading the comments on the video. It may not of been their best performance and they knew that going in, but the person who videotaped it just want to show everyone how bad they were. My feeling is that if it is not your team, you should not post the video for others unless you have permission to do so. We have turned into cheer paparazzi trying to get the video of that one team no one has seen yet. And for what?

Another more maddening issue to me is when gyms do not want anyone to post videos of them, but they post videos of everybody else. To me that is hypocritical. Many gyms will protest to the person who put up the video to take it down or else, but then will post one of their competitors up. If a program asks nicely to take a video down, I see no problem with it. But when they get nasty about it, I can see why people are so up in arms about deleting it.

-- Edited by flipkidjudge at 06:42, 2009-02-02

beofgoodcheer · Veteran Member

Our gym doesn't have any problem with performance videos being posted, however, has requested YouTube take off personal videos that were posted by some of our cheerleaders which identified the team name and cheerleader names that were not of performances, but were of them personally outside of cheer performances. We felt this was a safety precaution for the girls because those viewing don't always have honorable intentions. We found this was true of our website as well. We were tracking viewers from all over the world, some who had viewed particular pages or photos multiple times. It caused us to look at the photos and videos we post on our site more carefully, i.e. a single photo of a flier in a heel stretch is innocently the norm in the cheer world, but to a pedophile viewing the photo it could represent something else entirely. Therefore, we do our best to post more modest photos from the perspective that you don't always know who is viewing them or why, and to keep the integrity of the youths protected. Not that we don't post photos of our fliers and teams, but we ensure that the angle from which the photo is taken doesn't invite unwanted viewing. We would never want anyone on the team to be at risk. Not to be paranoid, but just to be thoughtful.

Yay4cheerDIVA · Senior Member

Some teams had their routine on youtube, but it says " this video has been copyrighted by Top Gun Cheerleading and Dance Co. "
Does anybody know what that is all about?!

flipkidjudge · Senior Member

I think that the explanation given for that on another board was that Top Gun and that gym were sister gyms (so to speak) and that perhaps a coach from Top Gun had done their choreography.

ACEDAD · GURU

CheerFan06 wrote:

We all realize that many people enjoy watching other teams' videos. However, that doesn't automatically make it our right to be able to watch them for free at our whim. How much fun it is to watch doesn't determine whether coaches have a very legal right to get videos of their (often minor) athletes taken off the internet.

You may pay to see a movie in a "public place", but that doesn't mean that you can video it and upload it to the internet. You can buy a book (or even check one out of the library) but you can't email everyone copies of the entire text. You can purchase a CD, but you can't legally distribute it on Napster or Limewire.

I realize that this will be an unpopular opinion. However, I think that if someone doesn't want a video of themselves to be on YouTube, they should have the right to get it taken down. That far outweighs our "right" to get to watch it.

All of this applies to cheer music as well, by the way.

-- Edited by CheerFan06 at 11:15, 2009-02-02

All of your examples are things where the items specifically prohibit the action. Again, I'm not talking about taping when it's not allowed at a competition. I'm talking about Jamfest (for example) where video taping IS allowed. No one is charging for the viewing.

I'm not an attorney by any stretch. But I have yet to see an example that convinces me the youtube posters are doing something illegal.

Your post is the closest yet.

CheerFan06 · Member

Money being exchanged doesn't really affect whether something qualifies for copyright protection. The money involved is usually why people would sue, but technically a copyright gives the owner/artist control over who sees their material and under what circumstances regardless of whether it was "free". A coach may realize that people can freely go to a competition to watch their routine. They MAY even be allowed to video tape it. However, providing that video to people who were not even there is beyond what the owner of the copyright has agreed to.

Further Examples:
You are allowed legally to record a song off the radio, but not put it on Napster or Limewire.

Perhaps the best example: You are allowed to video tape a show off network TV, and watch it however many times you wish. However, you are still restricted from uploading it to YouTube.

People may not like the idea that a coach may not want everyone in the world to see early versions of their routine, but surely they have to understand. They legally own the rights to the choreography and they have the authority to get YouTube to remove it.

For that matter, the vast majority of the music used in routine (Britney, Jonas Bros, etc) isn't legal to be put on YouTube either. The routines could be taken off YouTube simply for the music as well.

Do I think that the police will show up at your door if you are caught uploading routines? Of course not. However, I think that, even ASIDE from the copyright issues, we should respect the wishes of the coaches and the athletes in those routines.

-- Edited by CheerFan06 at 07:50, 2009-02-03