Ugh. These have to be some of the worst examples of those that gym hop, but it is hard to really do anything. This is one of the areas where I have one of my issues between the service definitions that many people use to justify gym hopping. If you want to be technical any time a bill is not paid, that person should not be allowed to cheer, or removed from your program if it is a straight business service situation. How many other sports can you run up a bill on loyalty then leave it unpaid, and go and cheer and pay to cheer at a competitor?
Many gyms struggle to build up clientèle so in the early formative years they may let some what things slide in order to keep kids/families. Families that are going through rough times like divorce, major illness are given breaks by most owners because they see cheer as more than a service. Coaches that give free privates because they know the family is struggling financially but they can see the great potential the child has and their desire to succeed in this sport. They see it as a relationship that goes beyond mere service. How can you kick out loyal clients who have paid faithfully for a few years but then hit a rough patch, no matter what it is. That seems heartless. You also have to (I would think) consider the child/children and the teams. If cheer is the only stable thing in their life, why as an owner would you snatch that away because mom or dad has lost their job? Why would you take them away from friends on teams that they have built up over the years?

My opinion only...it all depends on how they leave the program. I think all bills should be paid in full by the end of the cheer year. If not they should not be allowed to re up until they do or make written arrangements with the owners that are satisfactory to both parties...which also opens the door for them to gym hop somewhere else. Parents should also be mindful that many times the owners have to write checks before they have even collected the money to ensure they meet deadlines, shipments arrive on time etc. For example we have to order our uniforms for our new cheerleaders in a couple of weeks to make sure we have them in time for the first comp in Oct/Nov. Yes the child suffers if they don't have the money, but the team also suffers because now someone has to be choreographed out of a routine. So many owners advance it, hoping they will get it back. Some do, some do not.

If parents met with owners prior to leaving they could at least settle up or make arrangements (or address the issues why they want to leave and come up with a plan to address it)...which explains why some parents choose not to do so. Some owners may chose to waive the remaining bill, or to reduce it to part ways amicably...I know ours have done that for several people. In cases of illness, job transfer, layoff, etc. this seems to be a no brainier, but for those that gym hop for some reason this step is seemingly omitted.

Let's keep it real...some people just want a free ride so they are not trying to pay for what they have been given. Then they have the nerve to complain about how expensive it was elsewhere when they left a bill! As a coach and former owner that irritated me to see families who owed me/our business money happily cheering for another program and not even having the courtesy to settle that account. If no satisfactory arrangements are made, then after the required time (each state varies) I would think that owners should take the former clients to small claims and get what they can back. That sends the message to everyone else that they will not let unpaid debts go unpaid forever.

On a final note I would like to think that even if coaches from rival gyms do not talk to each other, as a professional courtesy, I would want to know if they left a bill. However given the level of rivalries between some gyms, sometimes that may not be feasible. The prospect of getting talent from another gym may overrule the business sense to honestly find out why that child left and did they leave a bill.

Sorry if I sound grumpy. I haven't had my tea yet...lol.

-- Edited by flipkidjudge at 07:05, 2008-05-20

Yeah, this topic is definitely one to be discussed. 

This season our gym sat the cheerleaders out for a competition or two until the parents could come up with a payment plan to get their accounts up to current.  This wasn't easy on the owners or the coaches.  Our teams felt it on the competition floor when just one girl was missing in the routine.  The routines were not perfect, and our teams were critized terribly on this board.  (Only, if everyone knew the real picture.) 

The message of not paying hte bill did get around the gym and MOST of the parents paid their bills.  Now there were a few that decided to pull their cheerleaders and not complete their money or participation obligation to the gym but that is the risk you take when you ask people to own up to their commitments.

There is no reason that something can't be developed in a way of a credit check.  After all you are fronting $$$ for this person to purchase uniforms, shoes, competition fees, the gyms have become creditors.  This is something more gyms should come together and talk about.  Perhaps there should be a workgroup, collalition, alliance of sort to start discussions.  I for one would be excited about this effort and would work on this team.

What do you feel other gyms should do if they find out a family is trying to try out for their program but has a outstanding balance at another gym? Is it a shame on them for not paying it and you wont take them, or is it shame on the other program for not taking the necessary actions to collect the debt?

I heard of a rival gym paying off the debt of a cheerleader just to get her in the program, how do you feel about that What a recruitring tool

Anonymous wrote:

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I bet alot of people get another visa card before paying off the old card, so whats the diff

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I'm having a hard time believing you are serious, but I'll answer it anyway.  The difference is one way or another you are going to pay the old card AND the credit card companies are very quick to update your credit with the negative whereas most cheer companies just take it and take it.

The only way that this will stop if Cheergym owners banded together. If they all decided that they would not accept athletes from other gyms if they owe at the last gym they attended. In the long run it would benefit all gyms.

Anonymous wrote:

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The only way that this will stop if Cheergym owners banded together. If they all decided that they would not accept athletes from other gyms if they owe at the last gym they attended. In the long run it would benefit all gyms.

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I agree!

flipkidjudge wrote:

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Anonymous
Date: Tue May 20 8:41 AM, 2008
Views: 52

Quote | Reply

I quess I should of added a disclaimer to my opinon or post that there is a balance but my focus on my response was more about unpaid bills.  Believe me, I hate parents that don't pay their share especially when I see them paying for privates, driving in top of the line cars and kids carrying or dressing to the nine when I am lucky to scrape enough together to pay the cheer and have mediocre material things.  Cause quess what, those fees that people don't pay are ultimately paid for by the paying patrons.  I am not in this sport to pay for other children's kids.  If a kid is truly down and out then I don't mind paying part of their share cause to me it is important to have the kids involved into something than having to much time on their hands and making the wrong choices. 

My responses are in the red.

Unfortunatly that is the way business goes. Another gym owner is not going to do the due deligence to ensure they are paid up at the other gym. Nor do they care as they are only looking to increase there enrollmentship.

***True statement. What you then have is a business that cares about money first, families second. Yet I promise you no gym out there wants to be characterized as this, even if they exemplify it in all they say and do. Ok I am naive. I want to build relationships and the money will follow. Silly me***

@@@That is a given that you have to strike a balance between relationship and money.  But the ultimate is to increase enrollment.  Increasing enrollment helps keep the tuition cost down when we are in an environment of rising costs.  Increasing enrollment is not just for the money aspect of it but you want your business to grow because that demonstrates success.@@@

As for what you can do, well it is a servicing business and with that comes the risk. Like any other business, you pass those losses onto your patrons but not through the non profit side of the business.

***So I punish poor little Sally Walker for who has paid on time for the past three years out of her child support check, because "Ms Plenty O Talent" parents refused to pay her bill because she was not made point flyer, "Mr If I Cant Run It I Will Ruin It" is mad the owners did not take his suggestions how to run their business when he put no risk into it at all and "Ms I Wanna B Seen" is mad because she was not selected to be team mom so they both left the program. Ok. Sounds fair to me.***

@@@Reality some of the loss incurred due to unpaid bills is passed onto all patrons through marginal cost increase.  Its not fair that any of us have to bare that cost but it is a fact none the less.  Gyms cannot afford to have these "Ms Plenty O Talent", Mr If I cant Run it I Will Ruin It" and "Ms I Wanna B Seen" leave without paying their bills but unfortunatly it does happen.  All I was trying to say in the preceding thought is try to collect as much up front before giving it gets to the point of them leaving without paying.  I have seen to often that people give their sob story and owners/coaches sobbing up their sob story and then lord and behold they cheerleaders are walking around with the the best of the best while somehow there fees got built into my fees.@@@

Before ordering uniforms, practice wear and what not that is normally collected up front prior to ordering. No payment, no ordering and the coach/owner makes a decision on how to handle that. If the coach/owner chooses to order without rec'd payment, well that is the risk/loss they have to bare.

***True statement again. But it supposes that everyone has the money in full when it is ordered and that simply is not the case. That is where they will say I will pay you on _________. The owners then make a choice to take the risk. However they did it on the person's word. If your word is not Bond, then I see why you look at it strictly as a business, nothing less. I guarantee if I looked at every child I taught as a business based upon their ability to pay me for my service I would be out of work by Friday.***

@@@Again as stated earlier, if you choose to open yourself up to the "I will pay later" then you have either written it off or set the tone to hold them accountable.  I have seen more time than none, the "I will pay later" syndrom and again time after time, I am still out the money but little Ms. Suzy has a new cell phone or pocket book or whatever.  But what urkes me more is when the owner doesn't rec'd payment the 1st time around when promised, they keep lapping up the hardship storyline. @@@
 
As for competition entry fees, well those are typically again collected up front prior to payment. Give the patrons a dead line date and then if they don't come up with the cash, well again the coach/owner has decisions to make.

***So do you punish the team because momma and daddy have financial issues? or as in some of our kids cases they actually work to pay their own bills? Your answer says yes. Mine says try to work it out some way first. Your first answer is the last answer for me.***

@@@we all have financial issues or crosses to bear.  Maybe if mommy and daddy has financial issues then child shouldn't be in competitive cheering but maybe participate in rec or school programs.  Again owner's choice and if arrangements were made then I say go for it.  But don't ask me as a patron to bare that cost.  I think most of us steal from Peter to pay Paul as it is. 

Sometimes you have to take the hard stance up front and set the precedence. If that means loosing some from the beginning well then so be it. But if you are willing to make out a payment arrangement well don't moan and complain as that is the risk/loss you as the owner opened up to yourself.

***Why is it that if people disagree it is a complaint? It is an opinion, just like yours is.***

@@@Misinturpeted or I didn't elaborate enough.  What I am saying is if you made the financial arrangments over a course of time and then the patrons leave, well that is a risk/loss that you opened up to yourself when the patron leaves.  Personally my opinion, no patron should leave mid season unless for dire reasons.  Because my Little Ms. Sally got moved to the back or what not is not dire straight and down right selfish on the child/parents part.@@@

As for those that gym hop, I am not sure what the owner is looking to truly recoup. Most of the clothing is resaleable (unless the patron left with the clothing and didn't pay, well quess what owner you took the risk and got burned), competition entry fees, well those are transferable. Not like you are out the money. So from a owner/coach persepctive those that did gym hop what money are you looking to actually recoup?

***Tuition, unpaid privates, comp entry fees are not always transferable to another person or another event, stunt or tumble clinics if your program offers them. I know it seems like every gym owner is making out like fat cats, but all of them are not. Many struggle to pay decent staff, pay insurance on the building and over instructors, training costs, etc. Everybody got their hand out. All i am saying is if parents enter into an agreement or contract, honor it. If they can no longer do it, fine. Settle it up and go on your merry way. But every time you poison the well, you make it harder on the person that will come behind you needing help.***

@@@I quess from my perspective, if everything is paid for upfront then there is nothing to recoup.  Unless you did make financial arangements.  And if you made financial arrangements with those parents that is when the risk begins.  Kind of mind boggling on the privates.  At the gym my cp goes to privates are paid for at time of private and run about $35 - $40 per 1/2 hour.  If financial arrangements were made to pay for the year, then how can one accept doing privates.  Gee please let me know, cause I struggle paying just my yearly cost, I would luv for my cp to take privates but I can't afford it.  So do share..  People sticking you with the bills does make it harder for that next person especially when there is a need.  Again I don't mind sponsoring kids when the need is truly there.@@@
Sorry for the harline and no I am not a owner/coach but a parent and a business person. Owning a business has risk and how far you are willing to extend your generosity (via flipping the bill up front) will dictate the risk that you are putting on your business by not recouping your money.

***I don't think it is a hardline, it is an opinion that your are completely entitled to. Every business incurs some level of risk. As a coach, former owner of a program, former director of several programs, parent and a small business owner I get the whole risk argument. Those who play it safe all the time never truly get ahead. Every business must take some calculated risks. I just don't like the "bad service" analogy to escape payment for services already rendered. Just like those who use the service argument use it to point to what they believe are non qualified programs, coaches, training, etc. that did not give them the level of development and championships they felt they were paying for. Now if your contract stated the gym would get your child to World's as the point flyer and they would be in the top 5 and they did not do it, well of course that is a whole different issue.*** (I am being facetious in the last sentence, of course.)

@@@Well that does down right suck when people use this bad service analagy because slime bags will find anyway to get out of paying.  That is people for you.  But my thing is if  you try and collect as much as possible up front to where you are the one in control of reimbursing them for fees then gym owners (business owners in general) are in a better position.  The patron would have to file the suite to recoup the money.@@@

I have other children that participate in other sports.  Tryouts are in April and fees for the year ($3,000 - $5,000) is due and payable in 2 or 3 installments all by Oct.  This covers 2 days of practice, games on Sat & Sun and 2 or 3 tournament entry fees.  I use this as an example to demonstrate that there is a way to reduce your risk of non payment.  Maybe we should collect up front and sign yearly contracts.  This will definatly close the loop on unpaid money.  And if the owner chooses to make alternate arrangments well then the parent better pay up and the owner must realize the ultimate risk they are taking. 
-- Edited by flipkidjudge at 10:55, 2008-05-20

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Anonymous wrote:

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First off it's not other parents business if someone has paid or not paid thier bill.  I also find it hard to believe a gym owner would come on a public message board soliciting help on collecting fees that some parents have failed to pay.  As a professional I would think they would already be aware of what avenues to take to collect monies that are due the gym.  JMO.

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As a gym owner, it's true,,,,, it's NONE of anyone's business who has paid a bill and who has not....on the other hand,  why can't we use this board,for other than bitching at one another about silly stuff and ask the good questions like " how do other gyms handle those who do not pay".  It's a simple question? As a professional we are always learning new things...and this is how we learn, by asking questions. This is JMO too!