Another topic

Date: Wed Dec 8 2:26 PM, 2004

Another topic

Date: Wed Dec 8 3:48 PM, 2004

That is completly wrong... If she is put on the Novice team it is most likely bc of her tumbling the more advanced teams mostly require tumbling. I would recomend her staying on the team she is on now and taking extra privates to show that she really does want to be on a higher team next year. Quiting now bc you cant fly and arnt on the highest level team is not right, and it will be thought of next year at tryouts. they may think well if she quit this year what makes us think she wont quit again? All it takes is a lot of dedication and time and she can learn how to tumbling no time! and next year make a higher team. Also remember its not the parent or cheerleader's decision on what team she will make it is te coaches and they are there to make the best team they can and please everyone! Quiting will not only let down your coach, but it will also let your TEAM down. * There is no I in TEAM * If you truly love cheerleaing then stay and try your hardest dont be selfish and quit bc you arent getting your way.

i.e look at Nelsons " new debate topic " it sorta tells you other ppls opions as well.

Date: Wed Dec 8 4:54 PM, 2004

I agree with the above. I also think that it may backfire further than what "respected cheerleader" said. If you quit only to try out next year, the coach may put you in a spot that is expendable, which would be no basing, no flying, no tumbling. The coach would know that they can't count on you to be there, so they would be forced to put you in a position that they know if you up and quit again you won't be noticed.

Date: Wed Dec 8 5:30 PM, 2004

I agree with previous comments. In addition I would like to say if the goal is to improve on skills, that would be best developed by staying on the team, working hard in the tumbling training, taking the extra tumbling classes that most gyms offer and maybe even privates. The cheerleader will not only get the skills training but be able to stay on a team and get the much needed experience of getting out on the competition floor. There is more to cheerleading than the skills. It is also about stage presence, showmanship, teamwork, and dedication. That can all be learned no matter what level team you are on. But not if you quit. The newly learned skills may not be able to be used in the routine this year, but if she works hard and shows her dedication to the team she may be considered for a higher level team next year at tryouts.

I never believe quitting is the answer. Once you start something you must finish it. If you allow your child to quit because things aren't going the way they thought, you are teaching them a "quitters attitude". Next time they try something it will be easier to quit. Not such a good life skill you want to develop. At least I don't in my children. I tell them up front, if you want to do this you have to stick it out the whole way. No quitting in the middle.

Date: Wed Dec 8 7:01 PM, 2004

I can't stress enough how BAD of an idea it is to quit a team because you don't think you belong on a Novice or Intermediate team.

Novice and Intermediate teams were created to give more people a chance to be involved. Before this the kids were simply CUT. Does that sound better?

Everyone needs to keep something in mind. The "United States All star Federation" defines the following levels for Novice, Intermediate, and Advanced Cheerleaders. Ask yourself if you're on the correct team. MOST cheerleaders in California are on a more advanced team than they belong. Not the reverse.

NOVICE: Standing Backhandspring, Round Off Backhandspring, able to base extensions and Toe touch Basket Tosses.

INTERMEDIATE: Tumbling up through Round off Backhandspring Lay Outs. Able to Base Liberty variations and twisting dismounts.

ADVANCED: Toe Touch Backs, and tumbling up through Full Twisting Lay-Outs. Able to base transitional Liberty Variations and Double Twisting dismounts.

Sooooooooooo, if you've NEVER caught or thrown a double down and you can't do a toe back......sorry....you're an intermediate cheerleader.

We need to realize that there's no shame in that. Lets be placed on a team, work hard, and make life long friends.

Date: Wed Dec 8 8:35 PM, 2004

that is very wrong to quit your team mid-season...that would not only hurt the cheerleader...it would hurt the team in so many ways...the team would have to change their routine so it wouldnt look so lopsided...im a cheerleader, and i would b mad it someone just puit on me

Date: Wed Dec 8 9:52 PM, 2004

Kudos to the coach above for telling it like it is. I know programs in Texas that don't allow non tumblers on there Novice team.....so it just goes to show you that the majority of the cheerleaders in Cali are placed on higher teams than they are really qualified for. Every team be it Novice, intermediate or advanced can be great. Wherever you end up challange yourself in that particular division. If you are in Novice push yourself to be have the cleanest round off bhs on your whole team. Take this time to polish your skills and show your coaches that you are dedicated to being part of the team. Goodluck and have a great year.

Date: Thu Dec 9 8:11 AM, 2004

I think, from my experiences, if you quit a team mid-season......do you really think that they are going to let you come back for the next? HAH, yeah right!!! And the cheer world is such a small world, that all the coaches know each (especiallly in california) and they would talk to each other and say "I have a girl/boy from your program trying out, what did you think of them? Are they a dedicated type?"......Now what do you think the program with the team you quit mid-season is going to say? "She quit our team mid-season because she thought she was "better" than the team we put her on. But had NO skills or dedication to be on a higher level team."So basically, what do you think the other program is going to do? Good Luck at try-outs, because they know your cheer history!!!! Remember its a small world....Dont make any irrational decisions, because they WILL ALWAYS come back to haunt you!! Okay..well...Happy Holidays everyone!!!

Date: Thu Dec 9 8:25 AM, 2004

Just like I said in the topic about quitting because you aren't flying...why would you WANT this kid? If they can't be a team player now, why would they be a team player in a year?

A lot of cheerleaders and their parents see themselves as more advanced than they really are. Those level descriptions above prove it - if you aren't able to do a standing BHS, you should be happy to be on a novice team!

And ask yourself this...in this case, wouldn't you rather be on a novice team and be able to shine than be on an intermediate or advanced team and be buried in the back of the tumbling and standing behide stunts?

And what happens if you "take the rest of the season off to work on tumbling" and DON'T get your tumbling? Then what? You go back to your novice team and everyone thinks you are 1) a flake and 2) stuck-up because you think you are better than them when they in fact have better skills.

I wish people would think about the consequences of their actions before they pull a stunt like this...and what ever happened to committment? Teaching your kid that they can pull out of an activity and mess up their entire team because of something so stupid is only leading them to be a quitter in everything later on in life.

Again, if this happened in my program, the kid would not even be welcome back to try out again, tumbling or not.

Date: Thu Dec 9 10:09 AM, 2004

Hey this is just another idea. The best things to do for the team is for the person to stay, but the best thing to do for the cheerleader is to do more tumbling. The truth is people are put on teams solely for tumbling skills. You cannot tell me that if you have a girl throwing a full and she cannot catch a double down she will be on a novice or even an intermediate team. NO WAY- she will be on an advance team. Team placement is based on tumbling.

Now if this cheerleader has limited time and $$$$ and if she wants to improve her skills---- the best way to do that is to get in tumbling classes- lots. At practice this time of year you really do not work on skills are that much. You are cleaning, changing and doing run throughs.

So if you are truly interested in being on an advance team do not join a team until you have the skills, but they best way to get those skills in through classes and privates, NOT TEAM PRACTICE

Date: Thu Dec 9 11:09 AM, 2004

I AGREE with everything that has been said. However, I need to add one thing...this situation also it depends how it is handled within the program as well! I understand cheerleaders are placed according to skills (tumbling and otherwise) but maybe, just maybe, that girls team is being treated as second class in the organization. MANY teams in the area have 'prep/novice' teams that are just the 'castoffs' and are treated as such. They don't receive the same time or attention as the other teams and in some cases don't even get to perform as often (or at all)

Is the team receiving the same coaching and training as the other 'advanced' teams? While I don't agree with a participant quitting midseason. I also think that if someone is willing to quit and not finish out the year AND they are considering coming back the next year for the 'advanced' team - then MAYBE one needs to look at their program and honestly evaluate what is going on. This is hard to do because it may mean there are things that need to be addressed in the program.

Food for thought. I must say again - I strongly agree with everything that has been previously said but remember there are two sides to every story

Date: Thu Dec 9 12:45 PM, 2004

Yes, you are right about two sides to the story. But the question then, is not if they should quit the team, but quit the program and move to a different program next year. That is a whole different topic.

Date: Thu Dec 9 12:55 PM, 2004

That might be a good idea. After all, there is a huge difference between being on an advanced team at Pyramids and a lot of other programs.

There are several programs in the bay area that compete advanced just because they have one girl that throws a full and they don't want to tell her she can't do it because they're in an intermediate division. I'm sure there's lots of space for someone with a bad backhandspring on that team.

I was looking at the Pyramids comp results and it looks like out of their 7 teams only one of them is Advanced. Kudos to them for being realistic and competing where the teams belong. It's so much more fun that way.

Date: Thu Dec 9 12:59 PM, 2004

Team placements are NOT solely based on skill. Maturity and attitude are a huge factor. So maybe anyone who thinks about quitting because they're not happy with the team they're placed on should rethink how they are approaching the situation. If they're whining and complaining about it no one is going to pay any attention to them, I would rather have someone quit than remain in my program with a bad attitude. That kind of behavior rubs off on everyone, their teammates, parents, etc. If that person keeps their mouth shut and works hard, they can prove that they belong on a more advanced team. Actions speak much louder than words

Date: Thu Dec 9 1:22 PM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: A Bay Area Coach
"
I believe there is only ONE program in the area that does not have Novice or Intermediate levels ...All the programs in this area to my knowledge treat all the teams the same, if not more to the teams that need extra help....Food for thought....No program wants to have a team as a "castoff" they still represent that program....disagree with your response

>I AGREE with everything that has been said. However, I need to add one thing...this situation also it depends how it is handled within the program as well! I understand cheerleaders are placed according to skills (tumbling and otherwise) but maybe, just maybe, that girls team is being treated as second class in the organization. MANY teams in the area have 'prep/novice' teams that are just the 'castoffs' and are treated as such. They don't receive the same time or attention as the other teams and in some cases don't even get to perform as often (or at all)

Is the team receiving the same coaching and training as the other 'advanced' teams? While I don't agree with a participant quitting midseason. I also think that if someone is willing to quit and not finish out the year AND they are considering coming back the next year for the 'advanced' team - then MAYBE one needs to look at their program and honestly evaluate what is going on. This is hard to do because it may mean there are things that need to be addressed in the program.

Food for thought. I must say again - I strongly agree with everything that has been previously said but remember there are two sides to every story"

Date: Thu Dec 9 1:57 PM, 2004

Good point from the post 2 above. Behavior and attitude plays a big part in placement. That reminds me of another thing.

PARENTS.......I think parents would be surprised how big a part they play in their childs placement. the last thing you need when it somes to an advanced team is a mom that is at EVERY practice, EVERY tumbling class, EVERY private constantly commenting to other parents or worse yet giving their child technical tips.

Think of someone that in the past has been unhappy about their placement on a team........now think of their mom.........scary huh?

Cut the cord or go back to Youth Football Cheerleading.

Date: Thu Dec 9 2:27 PM, 2004

I think it is VERY true that there are two sides to EVERY story. While I do agree with everyone that has said quitting mid-season is wrong, I also agree that programs treat certain teams differently.

I've heard of kids, in the Bay Area, being placed on a team, paying for the season, and not being allowed to compete because they don't have specific skills.
I've also heard of teams being formed and not being allowed to compete soley because they were not ready to compete at the advanced level.
In both those cases, I don't know that I would want to stick around, or have my son/daughter be in a situation where s/he's not "good enough" to represent the program.

Now, I've also heard of parents calling directors or coaches for weeks on end, complaining about how a team is not good enough for their daughter, and threatening to leave if something isn't done about it.
Or a girl not putting any effort in at practice because she feels like teams were picked unfairly.
Both of those cases, it is completely wrong to leave. What is it teaching the kids?

In either situation, maybe a parent should sit down with the coach or director, and discuss either why their child was placed on a certain team, or why they are not being allowed to compete, or whatever the problem might be, instead of pulling your kid out mid-season.

Date: Thu Dec 9 6:52 PM, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: A Bay Area Coach
"I AGREE with everything that has been said. However, I need to add one thing...this situation also it depends how it is handled within the program as well! I understand cheerleaders are placed according to skills (tumbling and otherwise) but maybe, just maybe, that girls team is being treated as second class in the organization. MANY teams in the area have 'prep/novice' teams that are just the 'castoffs' and are treated as such. They don't receive the same time or attention as the other teams and in some cases don't even get to perform as often (or at all)

Is the team receiving the same coaching and training as the other 'advanced' teams? While I don't agree with a participant quitting midseason. I also think that if someone is willing to quit and not finish out the year AND they are considering coming back the next year for the 'advanced' team - then MAYBE one needs to look at their program and honestly evaluate what is going on. This is hard to do because it may mean there are things that need to be addressed in the program.

Food for thought. I must say again - I strongly agree with everything that has been previously said but remember there are two sides to every story"

Amen, I agree with the feeling of being a castoff . My daughter was on a team where winning was everything and the only thing and if you were on the novice team well it was a team that was treated as second class. Needless to say she is no longer on that team.

Date: Thu Dec 9 10:46 PM, 2004

if your daughter quit because she was not competing that is one thing...but to quit on a team that does perform and a program that is fair to all teams is wrong!! this mother needs to set the rules for her daughter and teach her what is right. but what coaches are starting to see more and more is that parents of novice cheerleaders do not realize their child is novice and expect more advanced teams to pull their weight.
every parent should get a copy of the usaaf guidelines to clarify where their child should be placed...........

Date: Fri Dec 10 10:36 AM, 2004

How is a program that doesn't allow certain teams to perform because of their ability level a program that is fair to all teams??