Please forgive in advance the rantings of an old man. It is early and I have not as of yet had my cup of hot tea...lol.
After reading numerous message boards over the past couple of years, I am disturbed by a growing trend of publicaly minimizing a loss and taking cheap shots at the winners of a competition. It is almost a given that after every competition, somebody will sit at their computer and cry foul. This is not limited to one state, it is happening across this country. No matter which team won they did not deserve to win, they used crossovers (that were better than our crossovers), our routine was harder, judges were blind in one eye and could not see out of the other, collusion, favoritism, nepotism, classism, racism - heard that too, they cheated, if this or that hadn't happened, etc.
My issue with this is that there are certain things that should not be posted publicaly. Too many post their personal opinion as gospel fact. Because when somebody else reads it and they disagree, they will push back just as hard. And it will escalate exponentially. Even as I read this morning I see people who post bad things about programs and then cry foul when somebody from that program swings back (the Bully syndrome) This also includes MySpace, Facebook, YouTube and other other place where others can read it. Even your gym's guestbook may not be an appropiate place for that type of commentary. I never had that problem coaching gymnastics, but in cheering everybody scans everything about your program they can. Sometimes it is innocent and sometimes it is not. (that is a rant for another day)
All this does IMHO is tarnish a win by the team that won. It not only portrays those who did not win as sore losers, but also deflates a team that may have won the competition of their life. Your local, regional or insignificant nationals may be their "World's!" Why rob them of a chance to truly celebrate a victory? It is almost so bad at times I do not even want our girls to clap if they win for fear that somebody will say they were throwing the fact that they won in somebodies face. Sadly I have even heard that mentioned that teams celebrated too "cheerfully" when they won. What were they to do...give you the trophy and say they did not deserve to win?
It is a given that is is not always the best team that wins, but the best team that day/weekend that wins. (see Giants/Patriots 2008 Super Bowl) That is why we compete in the first place! A gym's popularity or reputation should have absolutley nothing to do with the actual competition results. Unless you can prove cheating with fact, please leave that talk in the locker room. What you say in your locker room/gym is your business...no matter how you phrase it.
As a coach I can look at a score sheet and say 9 times out of 10 that "we beat ourselves" with certain deductions. But I would not bring that outside the locker room because somebody could get offended and make the "leap" that I am then disrespecting their team by saying they only won because they got lucky. That is why I like to see every team hit regardless of where they are from and in our divisions and let it all shake out from there. As a gym we have been on both ends of the decisions. Such is life. Figure out what happened and keep moving forward.
While there are numerous other issues that are worthy of consideration, when the competition is over it is over. Let the team celebrate that won. You have had your days to celebrate and if you have not as of yet, you will. If you lost, see how you can work smarter and harder next time. Don't take it personally take it professionally. If there was something "funny" going on let the coaches/owners deal with it. Leave the locker room talk in the locker room or else it will become bulletin board material for other gyms to use against you. Everything you write they will read, or someone will read it and tell them what you said. And if it does, don't get mad if they swing back.
Here... Here... Now, could someone give that man a cup of tea? Please!
I tell my teams, they may compete against other team in theory, but the only team they truly compete against is themselves. We compare their scores from week to week, competition to competition and continue to try to improve on them.
As a coach, and a parent... I would never take a celebration away from any team for a win, regardless of the circumstances, that needs to be left to another time and another place.
That is why as I coach when i know I've got to put my team against a team that will be tough I never hope that they drop a stunt or have an off day. I don't feel like my team did well if they only won becasue the better team had major penalties.
That is why as I coach when i know I've got to put my team against a team that will be tough I never hope that they drop a stunt or have an off day. I don't feel like my team did well if they only won becasue the better team had major penalties.
We constantly tell our teams in practice that if they do not hit their routine they open the door for anything to happen. That no matter how many times they "hit" in practice it only counts when they are performing on the floor in front of the judges. We won't put anything out there we do not believe that will not be hit but anything can happen at a competition. That is why i said the perceievd best team may not necessarily be the best team that day. It is a competition not a coranation. If the rules are failry enforced and other biases are not present (another rant, another month...lol) then every team does truly have a chance.
Our first challenge is always to ourselves. After that we just deal with the result whatever it may be. We have been the favorite and lost, the underdog and won, and the where in ()^($(($ did they come from because nobody heard of us or thought we had anything beyond a level 2 program.
Good luck to you for the rest of the season and keep on working hard!
That is fantastic. Really well written and well-thought out. Can we just have this remain at the top of the board, or keep it somewhere, cut and copied, and pull it out whenever people start to complain? :)
Please forgive in advance the rantings of an old man. It is early and I have not as of yet had my cup of hot tea...lol.
After reading numerous message boards over the past couple of years, I am disturbed by a growing trend of publicaly minimizing a loss and taking cheap shots at the winners of a competition. It is almost a given that after every competition, somebody will sit at their computer and cry foul. This is not limited to one state, it is happening across this country. No matter which team won they did not deserve to win, they used crossovers (that were better than our crossovers), our routine was harder, judges were blind in one eye and could not see out of the other, collusion, favoritism, nepotism, classism, racism - heard that too, they cheated, if this or that hadn't happened, etc.
My issue with this is that there are certain things that should not be posted publicaly. Too many post their personal opinion as gospel fact. Because when somebody else reads it and they disagree, they will push back just as hard. And it will escalate exponentially. Even as I read this morning I see people who post bad things about programs and then cry foul when somebody from that program swings back (the Bully syndrome) This also includes MySpace, Facebook, YouTube and other other place where others can read it. Even your gym's guestbook may not be an appropiate place for that type of commentary. I never had that problem coaching gymnastics, but in cheering everybody scans everything about your program they can. Sometimes it is innocent and sometimes it is not. (that is a rant for another day)
All this does IMHO is tarnish a win by the team that won. It not only portrays those who did not win as sore losers, but also deflates a team that may have won the competition of their life. Your local, regional or insignificant nationals may be their "World's!" Why rob them of a chance to truly celebrate a victory? It is almost so bad at times I do not even want our girls to clap if they win for fear that somebody will say they were throwing the fact that they won in somebodies face. Sadly I have even heard that mentioned that teams celebrated too "cheerfully" when they won. What were they to do...give you the trophy and say they did not deserve to win?
It is a given that is is not always the best team that wins, but the best team that day/weekend that wins. (see Giants/Patriots 2008 Super Bowl) That is why we compete in the first place! A gym's popularity or reputation should have absolutley nothing to do with the actual competition results. Unless you can prove cheating with fact, please leave that talk in the locker room. What you say in your locker room/gym is your business...no matter how you phrase it.
As a coach I can look at a score sheet and say 9 times out of 10 that "we beat ourselves" with certain deductions. But I would not bring that outside the locker room because somebody could get offended and make the "leap" that I am then disrespecting their team by saying they only won because they got lucky. That is why I like to see every team hit regardless of where they are from and in our divisions and let it all shake out from there. As a gym we have been on both ends of the decisions. Such is life. Figure out what happened and keep moving forward.
While there are numerous other issues that are worthy of consideration, when the competition is over it is over. Let the team celebrate that won. You have had your days to celebrate and if you have not as of yet, you will. If you lost, see how you can work smarter and harder next time. Don't take it personally take it professionally. If there was something "funny" going on let the coaches/owners deal with it. Leave the locker room talk in the locker room or else it will become bulletin board material for other gyms to use against you. Everything you write they will read, or someone will read it and tell them what you said. And if it does, don't get mad if they swing back.
I really need to go get that cup of tea now!
-- Edited by flipkidjudge at 05:57, 2008-02-06
While I agree with 99.9% of what you say, I do feel that people have a right to express their opinion on the board, otherwise, there is no purpose for the board at all. Where the major problem IMO lies, is with people not "re-capping" with kindness, if that makes sense. There is an appropriate way to say you feel one team over another was better in your opinion without being rude, disrespectful, or just down right mean about it. After all, we are talking about teams of CHILDREN here, not adults. My daughters love to come on and read the boards and even they are taken back sometimes by what people have written about theirs and other teams.
As parents we all love to talk about our childrens teams and their accomplishments and I love to have this venue to be able to do that, lord knows it costs us all enough $$$$ lol. Lets just keep it kind!
While I agree with 99.9% of what you say, I do feel that people have a right to express their opinion on the board, otherwise, there is no purpose for the board at all. Where the major problem IMO lies, is with people not "re-capping" with kindness, if that makes sense. There is an appropriate way to say you feel one team over another was better in your opinion without being rude, disrespectful, or just down right mean about it. After all, we are talking about teams of CHILDREN here, not adults. My daughters love to come on and read the boards and even they are taken back sometimes by what people have written about theirs and other teams.
As parents we all love to talk about our childrens teams and their accomplishments and I love to have this venue to be able to do that, lord knows it costs us all enough $$$$ lol. Lets just keep it kind!
Very well put! There are ways to say opinions without using such cruel words.
Rather than say things that something sucks , is bad, awful, terrible, hideous, I hate, etc. (words I've seen used here), people need to pick a more positive way of expressing their opinions. There are plenty of ways to do that. Also, if you have some opinion on a team, at least also speak of some high points. No team has all low points IMO there is always some good in every routine.
This just gave me an idea, maybe we can have cheergyms, edit out allowing certain words like some of the kids internet sites do to eliminate bad language (LOL...just kidding cheergyms.com!!!!).
Agree with all of these posts. I want to add that in most cases it is the discrepancies in the judging people are pointing out. Yes, if you are not clean you leave yourself open for anything to happen, but I also feel judges should be accountable when the results don't match up. Judging differs between competitions and it's a factor when choosing which one to attend. Take note for next season.
While I agree with 99.9% of what you say, I do feel that people have a right to express their opinion on the board, otherwise, there is no purpose for the board at all. Where the major problem IMO lies, is with people not "re-capping" with kindness, if that makes sense. There is an appropriate way to say you feel one team over another was better in your opinion without being rude, disrespectful, or just down right mean about it. After all, we are talking about teams of CHILDREN here, not adults. My daughters love to come on and read the boards and even they are taken back sometimes by what people have written about theirs and other teams.
As parents we all love to talk about our childrens teams and their accomplishments and I love to have this venue to be able to do that, lord knows it costs us all enough $$$$ lol. Lets just keep it kind!
Very well put! There are ways to say opinions without using such cruel words.
Rather than say things that something sucks , is bad, awful, terrible, hideous, I hate, etc. (words I've seen used here), people need to pick a more positive way of expressing their opinions. There are plenty of ways to do that. Also, if you have some opinion on a team, at least also speak of some high points. No team has all low points IMO there is always some good in every routine.
This just gave me an idea, maybe we can have cheergyms, edit out allowing certain words like some of the kids internet sites do to eliminate bad language (LOL...just kidding cheergyms.com!!!!).
Make no mistake, I believe that we should be allowed to speak our opinions. But that also does not divorce us from the repercussions and fallout if we don't "recap with kindness" or use more positive words. Most of the flaming that goes on not only in the cheer forums,as well as other forums I am a part of stems from people who put forward their opinion as fact and who are not considerate of other's feelings. Then they have the audacity to get upset if someone disagrees with their "opinion." Keep in mind that one person's opinion is another person's slam.
It is one thing to say "I think" so and so was better. Totally different to say "so and so should have won." One thing to say 'that team did not hit." Another thing to say "they were a hot mess." One thing to say "they did not max out their level." Another thing to say they have no business being level____." IMHO the vast majority of programs do not truly max out their levels in all areas on every team in that program. There can be numerous reasons for this that does not fall under the categoory of sandbagging, dropping levels for an easy win or to avoid competition. Since we usually do not know all of the inner workings of each and every program and why decisions were made to go certain levels that is an unfair comment to make. then when someone from the program comes on and explains their actions some still won't accept it.
Being a former gymnastic judge, I can totally understand the frustration with inconsistent judging and the need to "vent." We all agree changes need to be made, we just can't agree on what changes, when, and who will be responsible.The same holds true for competition companies and the number of events per year.
Just be mindful that children do read these boards as well. They will emulate the patterns we establish for them. So if we set a standard of boorish behavior, it is no wonder they follow our lead. Second many people read these forums but never post. It is a shame but you almost have to monitor what is being said negative about your gym that may hurt the business of your gym. (Another post...another century...rofl!)So when you wonder why some programs appear to be bad sports at a competition, won't be friends, won't kiss and make up or has a chip on their shoulder, it just may be they have been reading what you and your supporters, parents, fans, etc have been saying about them online.(***editied to add - I am sorry but I do not buy the one disgruntled cheerleader/parent theory. It happens too many times to too many programs) Not that it excuses their behavior mind you, but it does explain why. Lastly I would not post anything online I could not or would not say to somebody who was standing right in front of me. The beauty of an anonymous message board is people can post with anybody truly knowing who they are, unless they choose or the moderators who track IP addresses choose to reveal it.
